Many or One?

[Shaolindynasty]

I know in this day and age most people advocate cross training. Yet as a traditional martial artist I have heard allot that you should stick to one style and master it.

I feel both methods have merit but when does a person go from cross training to style hoping? Is sticking to one style better? Will you be mising a peice of the puzzle or will mastering the system allow you to do fine without that peice?

For people who train multiple styles, how do you practice all of that material? Do you feel you are sacraficeing quality for quantity?


What are the pros and cons of each approach?

[LEGEND]

I think the first thing peeps need to do is spar within there style...if it takes u 6 months or longer before your instructor allows u to spar in your style then u better question him WHY???

The truth is that some of us are made to do one thing...whether it's to strike or grapple...the idea of style hopping is to find a base style that u can do naturally and like. Once u find that base style u can then focus on crosstraining to address weaknesses that your style cannot focus on. For example wing chun guys feel that side steping and striking a grappler is the best counter to a shoot. However...many have found out that doesn' work! So they pick up some sprawling from freestyle wrestling and just strike.

[Royal Dragon]

Personally, I belive you sould do you main style 2/3 of the tim or more, and cross train 1/3 or maybe even 3/4 and cross only 1/4

Wait, wait 85% your main style, and 15% cross training?

Anyway, you get my point, spend most of your time on the main style, and cross only a little bit.

You become a style hopper when you spend like 10% on one system, and 10% on another and 10% more on a third style, and then maybe spend only 20% on your main style.

Oh, also, Like a fool I accidentaly ersed my forum trying to delete Chung Moo Quan guys thay were spamming it, so I need new topics of conversation on my board ASAP!!
So if you could also post this there, and maybe the MA fraud thread again I'd appreciate it.

RD

[Shaolindynasty]

"if it takes u 6 months or longer before your instructor allows u to spar in your style then u better question him WHY??? "

It should take about this amount of time to start sparring if you are training without previous experience. See the thread about the boxer getting killed for fighting to early.

The person who would advocate matering one style would say that the side stepping could work but it needs more training. We have allot of takedowns in my system and my sifu used to tell me if you get taken down it's cause you need to train your counters more.

[apoweyn]

i'd measure the success of crosstraining as the ability to synthesize different ideas into a workable whole. if i started in taekwondo (and i did) then i decided to do... judo next (and i didn't), the success of that endeavour would rest on my ability to find ways to go from one to the other.

how do i move from kicking to throwing? or from throwing to kicking? that's a big range difference. how do i cover it quickly and effectively? what transitions do i have to make in stance between one method and the other?

that sort of thing. if a person studies boxing, taekwondo, and judo, but can't shift relatively seamlessly from one to the other, then they've racked up a collection of stuff, but they haven't increased the effectiveness of the one thing.

that's why people recommend a base style. something that you understand deeply enough that you can address the issues in combining it with other things. it's not enough for me to know that taekwondo kicks and boxing punches, and that if i 'did' both, i could kick and punch.

i need to address issues like the fact that taekwondo's techniques tend to favour a side on stance, while boxing techniques favour a more squared stance. or taekwondo kicks use a lot of hip commitment, making the transition back to boxing a little longer. (as a sidenote, i think that's less true of olympic tkd, but in any event it's a generalization.) high kicking orients the upper body back and downward, while boxing requires that the upper body be upright and slightly forward. etc.

the ability to fill in those logical gaps, smooth the edges, and transition is what makes crosstraining a viable option. and it's something anyone can do with the right amount of experience and consideration.


stuart b.

[Highlander]

We are talking about apple and oranges here. You do not need to study a Martial Art to become a good fighter. You can become a good fighter by studying a Martial Art, but that is not primary.

I was watching a video of a seminar taught by Augustine Fong in 1988 and what he had to say was something like this.

Question: Why do we learn *********? It isn't practical on the streets.

Augustine: Because it is part of the Art. I teach the complete art.

Question: Ya, but what if a student came to you and only wanted to learn how to fight?

Augustine: I would take him to the bar every night.

My point is, if you want to learn an art, pick one and stick with it. If you just want to learn to fight, just fight, in various schools, bars, alleys, it doesn't matter.

[Merryprankster]

Highlander,

That's well and good, but some arts address certain things better than others. I'm not going to screw with an Escrima guy in armed combat. He'd do well not to screw with me unarmed on the ground.

There's no shame in learning something, learning it well, understanding the weaknesses and looking to fill the gaps. Once that is done, you have to find transitions. I will have to transition between boxing, wrestling and BJJ. Fortunately, I have a left side attack I use well wrestling, so the boxing stance is not a problem. The idea of jabbing in will not be hard to adjust to "instead of throwing inside, I clinch," and once on the ground BJJ is my friend.


Shuai Chiao enters and throws well---but how about on the ground? That's all that Ap's getting at--IF in the endeavor of being a martial artist, you also wish to become a well rounded fighter, you have to address weaknesses and figure out how to integrate things into your "base," understanding of things.

[SevenStar]

The idea is to become a complete fighter. You don't have to master any style at all to become complete, only to do what you do d4mn well. You find a style you are comfortable with and use it as a base. From there, you spend time in other styles, trying to compensate for gaps in your style. You don't even need to train in the style per se - working with friends that train in the system may be sufficient.

I consider my base to be muay thai. I only spent about 2.5 years in it, but that style is all me - the agressiveness, the infighting, and my strong legs are complemented perfectly by the thai kicks. There are takedowns in MT, but not to the extent of shuai chiao or Judo. Enter shuai chiao and Judo training. Shuai Chiao is agressive and in your face, so not only does it complement me, but it complements my base style, making it that much easier for me to use.

I wasn't great with small joint manipulation, and wanted and overall system that utilized kicks, punches, joint manipulation, etc. Enter longfist. I've been training in it going on four years. To make up for the lack of groundwork, I grapple whenever I can (I hope to get back into BJJ soon) and have trained in grappling previously.

How does it fit into a schedule? that depends on your dedication. I try to train at least 2-3 hours per night. that includes forms work, stance training, shadow boxing and weight training. In class, I learn longfist. Outside of class I practice longfist, and also find time to train the other things. Over the next few years, will I be less capable than my fellow students that strictly longfist? I doubt it.

[Chinwoo-er]

Whenever we train, no matter in what kind of skill, there will be a time where we reach an impass. A kind of barrier which stops us from advancing anymore. If we keep training, we will be able to break it and move to another level. However, there is a problem in this. The time between reaching the impass and breaking it could be months or even years. For martial arts, it could take years before move on to another level.

So my idea is this. It is an idea to jump to another style when you do reach an impass. When you are in another style, you will be able yo advance in that direction. And the progress will be just as fast. When you have done a sufficicent amount there ( or reach an impass there ), just back. Now, by the time you just back, you will have a new insight to the original style you were training in. ANd this new perception of the art allows you to break the barrier with you knowing it.

SOmeone said to me that those years when you are at another style is wasted. That one could break the barrier alot sooner than if they jumped to another style and trained there untill they got a certain amount of understanding htere. But I believe that there is the time in not wasted. You have gained several years worth of knowledge from hat other style. And the progress never really stopped. And as a general martial artist and not just martial artist of that particular style, one actually gain more.

then again, there are some who just says that I have a weak mind and not willing to challenge the barrier face on. Well, maybe........