ATTN: SHAOLIN USA (NY) students

[Ray Pina]

Good afternoon.

About a month ago I was involved in a post here where a member told me I was being disrespectful -- because I was questioning somethings I heard and saw, as I do when something sounds suspect, but wanted to hear from the source to clarify. Instead of answering me, he told me I should "Come down to any Shaolin monk run school and find out."

Well, I had a very important business trip to go on and that didn't seem like the best activity to partake in at the time.

But, I'm back, and since then I actually picked up Master Killer on DVD and there was your school, in a special feature. I was able to see your chanting and some of your training excersises.

So, being from New York, I would greatly like to get together with some senior students from the temple. Please, kind sir, do not take this as a challenge, but rather an opportunity for two martial artists to do some testing. I would like to see your boxing up close.

I have never sparred Shaolin. I have crossed hands with Hung Gar and S. Mantis, but never Shoalin. It seems like you have a unique flavor.

Would you be so kind to host me? I have never met a monk before or been to a budhist temple. Once, right off canal street there was an old monk seeking alms, so I hooked it up, but there was no interaction.

Maybe with Chinese New Years -- I should be in Chinatown a lot -- or this long weekend, we can get together, train, get some soy buns.

Peace
Ray

[shaolinboxer]

There are a few monks in NYC. Which one are you talking about?

If you are talking about USA Shaolin Temple (which I believe you are), you should go to the school.

It would be interesting to hear your opinion.

I trained there for about 2 years, and it changed quite a bit in that time.

[Ray Pina]

That's the school. I'm hoping one of the seniors will read this and want to play.

No agrresiveness involved in this post. I am preparing for something, and I want to cross as many hands as possible.

[shaolinboxer]

Well, I can't imagine who will want to spar with you. That school teaches primarily PRC wushu, and very little in the way of sparring. Yan Ming does not teach applications of forms, because he believes thay do not work. I suspect this is not the reality though.

I remember being told I was one of the first of his students to receive training in actual combat (in America..appearantly back in china he had a sizable following).

His students are more like athletes, they are very well conditioned but lack many fundamental skills...and he's not exactly a monk, although I suppose he can lay claim to the title about as much as anyone. The buddhist stuff is mostly for show, and for justification.

If you fight one of them, they will use lead leg kicks mostly.

These, ofcourse, are simply my opinions. His students are VERY dedicated and wouldn't believe any negative words about him.

Good luck.

[Ray Pina]

Maybe it was another NYC Shaolin Temple then.

From what you are saying I'd rather pass then. Interestingly, I have been thinking about fighting venues (of which I always included Tough Man) but I saw my first Tough Man the other day -- I want nothing to do with that. Man, a bunch of sloppy drunk like hicks. I wouldn't want to be associated with that. For now, I'm just training, and I want to match "friendly hands" (no hard feelings just testing on both sides) with as many as possible.

Well, be well and, you never no, maybe someone will private message me:)

Peace

[Tigerstyle]

"I saw my first Tough Man the other day -- I want nothing to do with that. Man, a bunch of sloppy drunk like hicks. I wouldn't want to be associated with that."

C'mon EvolutionFist, you know the truth...

You just don't want to be seen on TV getting knocked out by a drunken haymaker. :p

[TenTigers]

Gadzooks! Please don't tell me you're gonna shave yer head and start mumbling sutras. ;-)The funny thing about that school, is nobody in Chinatown takes that guy seriously, only the gwailos are buying into it.

[Ray Pina]

I don't know anything about the school other than what I heard. I have no intrest in joining, simply playing with a few of the school's seniors as suggested by a board member here.

I figuere the more I match up against different people and styles now, while I'm young, the better I will grasp the principles I am studying. Maybe I am over loaded with the foolishness of youth, but I kind of employ the sink or swim mentality.

Of coarse, I would never jump into a large body of water without knowing how to swim though.

[fa_jing]

I think I will one day compete in a Tough Man comp. It looks like a lot of fun, at least what I've seen on the FX cable channel. I think those guys have all won local tournements. Anyway, it seems like a good venue to test oneself against average brawler types. I'm not ready yet, but it would be nice to step in there and win $50,000! I don't think you'd catch anything but respect for competing in one, as long as you win! The rules are pretty fast and loose, I think a good fighter could step in there and clean up.
-FJ

[Shaolindynasty]

"The funny thing about that school, is nobody in Chinatown takes that guy seriously, only the gwailos are buying into it."

That's a pretty ignotant comment to make. Who are you to make such a comment? What is your style? What have you accomplished?

He said in an article he wrote once that if anybody has somthing bad to say about Shaolin then go to the temple in China or visit him in NYC. Sounds like an open challenge to me, test him if you think he is a joke. Also your gwailo comment is pretty racist.



Evolution fist- Go to Yan Mings school, I am sure if you request a match with some of his seinor students he will be happy to accomodate your request. Although you have only been with your teacher 1 year, don't you think you should wait longer? If you loose it could stain your teachers rep.

[shaolinboxer]

I doubt that Yan Ming will allow any kind of challange match, but not for any kung fuey reason...simply because of the liability.

USA Shaolin Temple is a business, after all.

I could be wrong though :).

Why not post a challange at shaolinwolf.com?

[TenTigers]

yehw, I sowwy. I must be pwetty ignatant. I guess out in Kentucky, you must have your finger on the pulse of the Kung-Fu world in New York's Chinatown. My mistake. What was I thinking? In actuality, I was not saying anything about their skill. Au contraire, everyone recognizes their tremendous dedication and skill. We have all known about wu-shu and the history of the temple, and the monks, who train there. What about DeChan? The former abbot of the temple? What ever happened to him and the 5 or 6 real monks that were there about 15 years ago?He was about 80, and the others were also very aged as well. Where did all these new monks come from? I remember seeing them in their travelling show a few years back, and then all of a sudden, here they are! Did they defect? I had the opportunity and privledge to have trained briefly with Yu Shao-Wen, who was 4 year National champion of China, team mate with Lei Lin-Jei. (If any of you remember, he was the guy in the posters doing Monkey Staff) He taught me Gwai-Ding, and Whip Chain, I plan to continue training with him in the future when I have the time.(Can you picture a 45 yr old playing Wu-Shu? What the hell am I thinking?) They were the A-team.

[Ray Pina]

Please read my posts, and not others.

I am not looking for a "challenge" match. I am seaking nothing more than an informative afternoon of sparring among martial artists. A member of the USA Shaolin Temple suggested that I do so. So I am ... asking.

I think it much better to do so here, than for a stranger to show up at a school un-anounced. That to me would seem like a challenge and disrespectful. I do not want to bring any hostility to this.

Simply an afternoon of sparring among local martial artists. Gear, whatever. I simply have new material I'd like to work on. I just want to play, cross hands with as many as possible.

Also, yes; I am only a one year student of my sifu. Because of this I am not seaking to represent his fine school, but better my skill through experience so that one day I may.

Make no bones about it, my sifu is not shy in saying he thinks most martial artists are terrible. Not necessairly their styles, but the way they use them.He has also made it quite clear that he wouldn't mind if such debate drew someone to his school to find out just what he means. They have come, and he has shown them.

Believe me, I respect that. The man walks the walk. He is a Martial Artist beyond the bone and marrow, but to the essence. A true Warrior.

I am not ready to clame anything other that I've only been with this great man for a year. Nonetheless, I consider myself a martial artist as well, though just starting off on the path.

This desire to cross hands with as many as possible is my own, and I would like to adress it as such, seperate from my school until I feel what I present is a good representation. For now, I just want to train.

I'm not going to post on this Kung Fu section for a while, because I feel my words get misread and I do not want to present myself as a ogre. If you are interested, please e-mail me.
Ray

[shaolinboxer]

Is that realistic though? To ask a stranger to spar from another school without it being a challange?

[Ray Pina]

Every match is a challenge to me. Against myself, where I was, and where I want to be.

If the ego is left out of it, there will be no problem

I have Hung Gar friends and Wing Chun friends, and when one of us is bested, we find the fault in ourself, not our teacher or system.

If I was to get a good beating, its back to the drawing board: why?

There is no doubting my master's technique. It is just not my own yet. I'd rather test outside the school then bring any uncessary pressures or emotions into class.

Like someone said, I've only been with my master a year. I'm no match for his top seniors: waaaay too powerful. I wouldn't get a change in. The technique is too refined. I'm being a spunge nad taking in what I can. The internal is quite a different thing.

[Buby]

"Is that realistic though? To ask a stranger to spar from another school without it being a challange?" - I think so. I don't know EF from a hole in the wall. All I know is that he is a fellow martial arts brother who likes to train and test the material he has learned... And I respect that. It's a path that I'm exploring myself and I'm glad that their are other MAs that share the same interest. I mean, we're MAs. This is what we do. We train and we put it through the test. As long as things are done respectfully, I don't see whats the problem.

Take care,
Buby

[Ray Pina]

PS.

Too be 100% honest, I spotted something in class last night that really humbled me -- no lie. It was very subtle. But what I saw showed me just how far I am from reaching any notable skill. I have a long way to go, and though my focus a few months ago was on fighting, not it is on learning.

This is the truth.

BUT, there was someone from Shaolin USA here not long ago speaking down to me and suggesting I fight one of their seniors, so I figuered why not. I got a glimpse of their technique. The way they train.

Other than that, I'll cross hands when soemone wants too, but I now see how low my level really is. I need to spend more time training. In fact, I just found a nice place near here where I can walk during lunch, and will do so instead of wasting time here.

Well, anyway, be well. Peace

[Shaolindynasty]

Ten Tigers
First I don't live in Kentucky, I live in Kankakee Illinois about 45 min from downtown Chicago.
Second, yes you are pretty ignorant, I can't beleive you teach other people.


Evolution fist- I didn't mean go into his school and tell him "your kungfu's no good, lousy b a s t a r d" then start fighting. I just meant politely go in and request a sparring match, I think he'd let you. Unfortunitly I seriously doubt it won't be a challenge match cause there would be allot to loose in terms of reputation. Even with your idea of not sparring/fighting at a school there will still be allot of ego. Remeber the other person wil want the braging rights.

[Paul]

I live in Kankakee Illinois about 45 min from downtown Chicago.

You might as well be in Kentucky. What's the difference?

[Shaolindynasty]

I don't think there is too much difference. Where you live really has nothing to do with what you know and your skill level. I just wanted to say "first of all" :D

[shaolinboxer]

"As long as things are done respectfully, I don't see whats the problem. "

The problem is somebody always hits to hard, or rolls his eyes the wrong way, or casts a sarcastic smile, or gets whacked in the ear and gets ticked off.

Sparring partners should be people you can trust. Just because somebody seems like a "fellow martial artist" (whatever that means) says nothing about his character or his potential to harm you. Strangers are strangers.

[norther practitioner]

EF, I see what you are asking, and I think some people just don't understand your intentions. I think though if you were to go to the school with curious intentions, asked about sparring, forms, etc. then asked if there was anyway you could maybe mix it up with one of the students, then maybe, who knows, I do see where you would like to have an "inside connection" and maybe do this on nuetral ground or whatever. Whatever happens, remember to have fun, and learn something.

[Buby]

True..True!! I guess lots of people would act in such a manner. I guess I've just been lucky to train with MAs that were more interested in training and learning then boosting their egos.

Take care,
Jorge

[TenTigers]

Evo, perhaps the best thing would be to become friends with some of them and meet privately on neutral ground in an atmosphere of mutual sharing and learning and of respect. This way you don't ruffle feathers, egos, or get your intentions misconstrued. Going into a school like that, no matter haow sincere you might be, always runs the risk of comming off the wrong way.

[Ray Pina]

That's the reason for this post, and an invite for lunch, chilling.

[Mutant]

EF, you seem like a guy who is conscientious of tradition pertaining to CMA and martial arts in general.

Well, your request, no matter how sincere, will be viewed as a challenge by just about any MA school, especially a traditional CMA school. There's really no getting around it, thats just the way that kind of request is viewed, its tradition. As a matter of fact, many challenge matches have been arranged like that. I know from experience, I really needed new sparring partners about 4 years ago and told some friends to ask some people they new at other schools if they wanted to get together for friendly sparring. I just wanted to have fun and chill out like youre saying, so I know where youre coming from. But all I got was a bunch of egos and people looking to prove something. They though I was brash and challenging, but I really just wanted to have fun and was curious. I think thats what you will find. Maybe you'll be lucky and meet some cool people, but my guess is that if you carry on like that, the schools will take it as a challenge and it might not be as casual and fun as you had hoped. Unless youre just baiting for some fights, then youre on the right track.

Just my $.02, good luck! :D

[shaolinboxer]

If Jerry is still there he may be interested.

Everybody used to call him "Chi Man".

However, when we were training together he was not interested in sparring/fighting.

If he is still there, he's probably top dog.

[Ray Pina]

Mutant Warrior. You are so very right!

There is nothing but truth to what you write.

Luckily, my prayers have been answered. My old sifu, a great guy, we still keep in touch, is going to be training some young athletes from the Freemason society. I here they are a fun bunch.

Anyway, I used to be 1 of 5 guys he trained, but for various personal reasons the group got disbanded just as I met my curent sifu, master Bond Chan -- incredible fighter.

Anyway, the group is rejoining for sparring sessions staring the end of CHiense New Years. They called me to come out and celebrate. I know the crew of five is very interested in fighting as much as possible, with full gear though.

That's all we did for the two years I was with them.

So, I'm hoping they'll be willing to let me join them from time to time to fight. Looks like its going to happen. With this internal I've been learning a lot of principles, rules, theory -- incredible boost to technique. Plus a whole knew technique, better, more efficient, on top of that.

I actaully have an advantage. Since the guys disbanded a year ago they have only gotten together a few times. My old sifu's favorite, getting some time in with the teach here and there. I chi saud with him a few months ago. He was impressed with the way my sifu's technique worked -- though I'm still a poor rep.

I'm hoping I'm going to give these guys hell. Good variety. One taller but thinner. One tall Chinese, about 6'2", small frame but built and very fast hands. And then one big portugues or Arab guy, about 6'4, 256 -- construction worker, contractor. ( always had hell with this guy. Very powerful. I've turned him afew times, but caught many element blows to my head too. He actually kind of knocked me out once.

I think I'm ready for him though. This Ba Gua, Hsing-I and crazy E-Chuan stuff is rediculous. It's like some hid the cheat codes from me all these years -- like, "O' of coarse its supposed to be like this."

Of coarse it is.