Capoeira??

[Qi dup]

Does anyone have any experiance with Capoeira? Good points, bad points? Is it effective in the street? I read on Cyberkwoon that they really don't use there hands for attacks, just there legs and feet. Thanks for any information. I know it's not a Chinese MA but I'm still interested.

[Merryprankster]

It's pretty.

And you'll get in good shape.

Other than that, I don't know.

[shaolinboxer]

Many people I have talked to warn against the cult like nature of study groups in this art.

You've been warned :).

Other wise, it is supposedly a combat art disguised as dance (combat arts were against the law during it's creation).

The do partnered dancing/sprring to music, all standing in a circle. Lots of handstands and low leg attacks, but also plenty of high kicking. I understand that many of their hand movements are actually knifefighting manuvers.

[Qi dup]

hmmm, interesting, thanks shaolinboxer. Dancing is really something I'm not great at. Dance sparring sounds interesting as well. Doesn't sound to realistic for a combat situation, but I'm not sure, i haven't seen them do it in real life. Has anyone ever heard of a Capoeira guy who could really fight? Thanks everyone

[Badger]

Mestre Hulk a Capoeira stylist beat Amaury Bitteti a BJJ stylist by knockout in a match held in Brazil.



Badger

[KC Elbows]

A friend of mine practices, and set up the first group to practice in this area. There is some handwork, but it is predominantly legs. He's a decent fighter, but he has a kung fu and judo background, so its hard to attribute it to style. However, it is a tremendous workout.

There are specific songs to "spar" to, and its very interesting to watch. My friend has a tape of two maestres going at it, and it was definitely an unfreindly match between the two(one was roughing up the other's students). Judging from that match, I'd say the high-level practitioners can fight that way.

Keep in mind, there was a time that mostly criminals practiced capioera, and there's still a lot of shady characters involved. My friend put up a big sum of money to host a particular maestre here, and the guy came over, sponged off my friend in every way possible, told people that if anyone ever beat him in the circle, he'd knife them later, and later raped a 15 year old student at another location. In defense of good maestres, a group of maestres got together and explained to that guy that if they saw him again, he would be toast.

On the flip side, there's another group that practices here now who are perfectly nice, though not all that fight oriented. I believe there's two or three groups practicing in the area presently.

[Shaolindynasty]

I used to do capoeria to cross train with my kungfu. It is an effective style, it's purpose is to not look like it's effective. The style uses some very unorthidox movements and footwork, any experienced fighter knows how hard it is to fight someone who is unorthidox. I played in Brasil for about 2 weeks and saw some challenge type matches good stuff. Somthing to keep in mind is that generally the young students do allot of flashy technique, most of the older practitioners I have seen in Brasil use allot less flashy stuff. Interupting the other players timing and stuff.

[kungfuyou]

Try these links out:

http://www.capoeirasj.com/

http://www.wu-wien.ac.at/usr/h96b/h9650297/capoeira.html

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/8551/capoeira.htm

[Qi dup]

Thanks for all the responces everyone, deffinatly some good stuff to think about. How would you say it would go with another kung fu style, like wing chun or something like that? Your pretty much in constant movment, right? You spar in circles? Does it have any similarities with Bagua?

[CanadianBadAss]

"How would you say it would go with another kung fu style, like wing chun or something like that?'

Capoeira... I saw some dancing around and sparring surounded by people chanting... just stuff I saw at some demenstration. Asfar as i can tell though, WC and Capoeira are nothing alike. And if you were to add capoeira into your WC training you would only hurt your WC.
Besides, what would be the point? Do you feel your WC isn't a complete system on its own? Maybe you would be better of cross training in brake dancing, and then you could fill the gap in WC, it's lack of dancing and singing, it would finally become a complete system.

[SevenStar]

Just like with any other art, it varies. There is handwork in capoeira, in fighting, elbows and such. The players back in the day were kept in shackles, so they couldn't really punch, but they have an arsenal of elbow forearm and shoulder strikes. Don't let all of the dance like moves fool you. H9ow many people say the same thing about kung fu? Do you think that kung fu is just dance? Just something to think about...

[CanadianBadAss]

SevenStar, I don't think capoeira is just a dance. If a capoeira player were to start cross training in WC that might hurt his capoeira skills aswell. It's just that Wing Chun is so diffrent from that style(unless there's some deeper meaning that I didn't catch from the 2 min I saw of it), alot(if not all) of the movments I saw were just completly oposite of many WC princples and theorys, I just don't think they would mesh well together...

[SevenStar]

My bad, I wasn't talking to you specifically. There are alot of people that think it's merely dancing. I was talking to everyone that thinks so.

[Shaolindynasty]

"but they have an arsenal of elbow forearm and shoulder strikes."

They sure do. If I was to compare capeoria to some kind of kungfu I'd say it's probally most like monkey style in principle. Capoeria uses deceptive movement to gain the advantage on the opponent. Unless you do capoeria yourself it is very hard to catch the rythem of their movement. Before I did some training in capoeria I tried to spar against a capoerista who was training capoeria under my sifu. I though the same thing allot of people do, it's all for show, it's a dance etc. When I tried to sparr though it was an eye opener to the usefullness of deception and unorthidox techniques. Capoeristas pride themselves on being tricky.

Allot of the stuff you see in the Hoda(circle they fight in) like handstands etc. are part of the "game". Not only sparring goes on in the Hoda but they also challenge each other to feats of strength. They also have stick and machetty fighting. In my sifu's capoeria class he taught us how to fight with razors between our toes. Very cool stuff.

[Tvebak]

Ì feel that a lot of what i would like to say has already been said.
Even though i do Xingyi, taichi and some Gatkha my primary art is capoeira.
I have been forced to use my skills on the street and have had many sparring matches with other styles of MA.
Capoeira is very different from other forms of MA in that it has many purposes, one of the most important was that it helped oppressed people to gain pride and strength and faith in themselves.
In my wiew this and other non combat aspects is very important if one wants to learn capoeira.
That being said capoeira contains many really effective techniques that can be used for self defence.
Its really different from group to group what their emphasis in training are.
But most groups are cool, the "cult" groups are very rare, in my opinion they are more often found in other forms of MA.
About the fighting with chain thing, i dont really belive this, how would the slaves work wearing chains?

[Tvebak]

Oh just forgot...in the old days ALL expressions of african arts was unlawfull so hiding capoeira as a dance would just get you arrested for dancing...

[red5angel]

Also, if you watch the movie "Band of the Hand" you will come to find that there is good and bad in Capoeria, also, Eddie from Tekken does this style very well. ;)

[mestre]

After studying in shaolin kung fu for bout 2 years me and a few friends dicided to cross train in capoeira (mainly after seeing 'only the strong') and have been learning it on and off for pat 2 years.I can say that i know sum capoeristas who can whip b utt, alot of the kicks are circular and generate a lot of power as they are whipped around. But the main strength of capoeira is diception u never know wott they are going 2 do i remmember when i first started and spared against a capoerista using kung fu and couldnt get near him- there are moves can be intiated even when in handstands or while in the air. Overall capoeira will increase your fitness and strenght (1/2 hour of handstands is murder) and is fun, if uve never been in a 'hoda' ur missing out man

[Qi dup]

"Maybe you would be better of cross training in brake dancing, and then you could fill the gap in WC, it's lack of dancing and singing, it would finally become a complete system."


Hehe, I think your on to something there:)





Thanks everyone, everything said gives me a lot to think about. From what I hear it deffinatly wouldn't mix well with WC, for a lot of reasons. However I think I understand the art a little better. Interesting that it could be incorperated into Shaolin MA. Low Stances, generating power from your base, etc. Capoeira incorperates constant movement to trick your opponent, correct? I'll have to visit the school and see how it looks. I think I'm still more interested in the therories and tecniques in Wing Chun.

[SevenStar]

they don't work while wearing chains, unless the chains are on their feet. they can't dance while working either. training was done at the end of the day.

[Verona]

I used to do Capoeira, It is fun but not really effective unless you study your whole life. There are many flaws, i would not recommend if you are looking for street defense

[friday]

this is stating the obvious...but isn't this martial art limited to open spaces...considering that often in todays' modern society i m more often found in enclosed spaces such as a bus, train, restaurant etc...i think it would be hard to execute at least many of the spinning, kicking techniques in this style.

[KnightSabre]

I like Eddie on Tekken Tag and he does Capoeira.
That movie Only The Strong was pretty cool too.

[hughes]

Thing is, since it comes from the streets of Brazil,it must be pretty street effective,after all, the streets don't come much rougher than in Brazil, but friday makes good point about limit to open spaces.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by friday
this is stating the obvious...but isn't this martial art limited to open spaces...considering that often in todays' modern society i m more often found in enclosed spaces such as a bus, train, restaurant etc...i think it would be hard to execute at least many of the spinning, kicking techniques in this style.

No, It's not limited to open spaces. Capoeira has infighting which uses elbows and forearm strikes, as I stated previously. there are also knees, and as we all know, there are several kicks that can be used in closed areas. I would bet that it's infighting is not as in depth as silat or shuai chiao, but it definitely has infighting. Capoeira is like another modern wushu when it comes to the media and such - it has a lot of techniques that are pretty, and that's what the general public likes to see. Consequently, that's the majority of what you see when it comes to Capoeira.

[mestre]

the official size for a hoda (ring of play) that they use in Brazil is very small and you learn to work round the player especially in angola style so it can work in confined spaces.

[Shaolindynasty]

It can work in small spaces. One of the schools I trained at in Brasil was the size of a garage and some where between 20- 30 people in it at a time.

As far as having flaws goes. I think people in styles like Wing Chun would have a very difficult time dealing with them. Capoeria is very mobile and they are very hard to unbalance. Over all it's a good style it just looks alittle strange. Study the art alittle before you make judgments

I remeber when people used to say Bagua was ineffective because of the way it looked.:rolleyes:

[hughes]

When infighting in capoeira, do you still do the left-right sway step?

[Shaolindynasty]

All movements come from the Ginga(sway step) but in the hoda it's not really used like you think. In Capoeria you are constant moving from on technique to the next. In the Hoda if you are doing more than 3 steps Ginga then somthing is wrong. In addtion to the Ginga there are allot of side steps and other movements to move around. As far as infighting, we use kind of like a horse stance while moving from side to side(kind of like bobing and weaving).

For some reason I get the feeling that people thing Capoeria is all back flips, spin kicks, handstands and Ginga. The reality is it's more groin kicks, elbows, knees, from various positions. All the movement you see serves to confuse the opponent (works well) and to position yourself in an unexpecting way to deliver a strike to a vunerable area on your opponents body. You try to move around the oponents defense.

[hughes]

I'd love to learn capoeira,but i really don't think i could do a backflip. One good thing is though,there is actually a place that does it near me,which is quite surprising (Scotland aint exactly the best for MA)

[Shaolindynasty]

We didn't do flips in my school. We did do allot of cartwheels(au) though. Flips may not be required. Some schools do require it. Kind of like kungfu the teacher likes his students to have a "no Fear" attitude. If flips are required you'll probally work up to them anyway. I say if you are interested go for it. If I limited myself to what i thought I could do in the begining I wouldn't be doing anything.

[hughes]

Originally posted by Shaolindynasty
If I limited myself to what i thought I could do in the begining I wouldn't be doing anything.

Woah,thats a helluva profound quote. Thanks SD i think ill look into it end of May time - final year of school now you see.

[SevenStar]

found this on a site
"Most people unfamiliar with Capoeira will say that it is no good as a self-defense, that it is just a dance or acrobatics. People who don't know how the training or self-defense aspect say dumb things like "Hey, I'd never do a cartwheel in a fight". Oh, like any serious Capoeirista would? What you see in the game is not how we would fight. A real fight is completely different from the Capoeira game.

Ginga during a fight? Do big Aus and Mortals and Floreio? Hardly. Anyone with common sense can see all that would be impractical in a real fight. Every technique in Capoeira has a self-defense aspect, and that can be modified to fit into any fight situation but most of what is seen in a roda would not be used. A smart Capoeirista would rely on his instincts and reflexes honed in the Capoeira rodas and training and use it to react to attack and protect him/herself.

A lot of close range Capoeira attacks and takedowns are especially effective if used to do significant damage.

It's obvious that Capoeira has been an effective self-defense if you look at the history of Capoeira in Brazil and the amount of trouble Capoeiristas caused the police and the government in the 1800s and early 1900s."

[yenhoi]

Site link SevenStar?

Any sites with video of these stylists? I have tekken but thats not enough.

[SevenStar]

http://www.ultimatemartialarts.net/styles/capoeira.cfm

there are sme vids around the net. I've never seen any that show the infighting though.

[Qi dup]

I wouldn't mind seeing some video clips

[Tvebak]

Its great for me, being a capoeirista to see people discussing my art in such a serious and honest way. Asking questions but not jumping to conclutions based on lack of knowledge. Thanks.
Capoeira comes in very different forms from all over brasil, there is a very standart form that comes from some of the first groups who started doing formal training For instance the group Senzala or Abada. This way of training exits everywhere, but for instance some groups in Recife use movements from Frevo, a form of samba with many hidden combat applications.
Just as the legendary Mestre Bimba used Batuque to add throws to his game, something that unfortunatly is a very rare sight today.
Capoeira is so many different things, so rich and beautifull, you can eat it all your life and not even get to taste it all.
I know of several teachers in capoeira who teach things that most people wouldent consider capoeira. for instance stick fighting (not maculele) knife fighting techs, Throws, and one teacher i know teach primarely hand techniques, i have only seen him do a front kick, but its capoeira,no doubt.

[Qi dup]

I really appreiciate your comments. I honestly didn't think there was much depth to Capoeira. No doubt I was wrong. I guess i'm just going to have to go to the school here and see how they do it. That's cool that some people and mastre's incorperate hand tecniques and throws.

[Drache]

Chimps Capoeira has a lot of videos. The site is http://members.aol.com/Bill510/capoeira.html

in the download section you can find clips of tricks, Rodas, acrobats, etc. He also has tons of pictures.

Enjoy,
~Drache~

[Drache]

Also, watch for a demonstration by Grupo Abada in the closing ceremony of the olympic games, it should be good.

~Drache~