Fencing [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

GeneChing

04-22-2004, 09:45 AM

...is that it has more mythology than kung fu even. Seriously. I worked professionally in fencing for a half decade - teaching and working as an armourer at American Fencer's Supply (http://www.amfence.com). I think when you start earning your living in something like fencing or martial arts, you quickly learn to cut through the bs because frankly, there's not much money in this kind of work and bs can be costly. So you get a very real economical sense of how much bs there is. You spend your time cutting, cutting, cutting, just to make rent money.

But enough about my issues :rolleyes: back OT. I think fencing holds a lot of martial artists. First, the sword combat. Fencing uses steel and there's something about the 'sentiment du fer' the feel of the steel, that you just don't get in kendo or CMA. Second, it's the notion that you don't have to be very powerful using a sharp. You just need to be fast and accurate. The sharpness does the work, if you know how to apply it. These points are technical, though, and I think where Lee really shined in his sutdy of fencing was theoretical. Fencing theory (except the aforementioned Spanish school :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) has the most elegant theory of combat I have ever studied. It's western - scientific and mathematical - like a computer program. It doesn't always apply to 'real' combat because it exists only in the realm of the specific rules of western sword duelling, but within that realm, it is suupreme. Unfortunately, the only people who really study fencing theory are fencing masters and the occasional theory geeks. Many instructors aren't even certified - unlike MA, there is one nationally recognized governing body for fencing masters so if you aren't certified through that, you aren't 'real'. There are some smaller bodies that do certification and their validity is contestable. Anyway, fencing theory is brilliant, so if you explore fencing, make sure to study the theory.

Vash

04-22-2004, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by GeneChing
Fencing theory (except the aforementioned Spanish school :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

What's wrong with the Spanish school?

GeneChing

04-22-2004, 04:48 PM

The Spanish school went the way of the brontosaurus a few centuries ago. They haven't been able to produce any fencers of note since the days of the long rapier. There are a few revivalists, like Martinez, but many question their lineage and authenticity (personally, I have no real opinion on Martinez since he came out after I left the fencing world). Modern fencing has been dominated by the French, Italians, Russians and Hungarians for a long time now.

The one thing I will say in favor of the Spanish school is that it had some great art - beautiful plates of their mystic circles - but as a modern study, it's obsolete.

Vash

04-22-2004, 05:37 PM

Interesting. I have zero knowledge of fencing, so forgive me if this is a laymen's question . . . why is it obsolete? Rule changes, et al?

GeneChing

04-23-2004, 10:25 AM

Too **** big, I'd guess. The standard notion of the demise of the Spanish school was that it became too theoretical. It was based mainly on arcane patterns of footwork apparently, what became known as mystic circles. Fencers would practice these footwork patterns with arm extended, drilling over and over again. From a CMA perspective, it makes a lot of sense, actually. And it did produce some fantasitc fencers centuries ago. But then, it got weighed down with theory to the point that astrological factors were calculated into duelling - sort of akin to consulting feng shui before battle (what Sun Tzu opposed some 2000+ years ago). Eventually the spanish school became too cumbersome. Most consider it lost. Revivalists are looked on with the same skepticism that we might look on someone who claims to have 'rediscovered' wing chun skirt fighting techniques.

I'd add that the weapon changed in the last century. As steel became stronger and more flexible, they moved to lighter weapons. Contrary to the myth, lighter and faster is better, especially with a sharp. You don't need power with a sharp - the sharp does all the work. You just need speed and accuracy. The Spanish school reigne with people were still using long rapier - and I do mean long, some up to 44+ inches.

FWIW, fencing is an Olympic sport and has been since it's inception. This means that the masters, judges and competitors are strictly certified and regulated on an international level. There are some wayward groups, sort of SCA types, who try to do their own thing like historical fencing, but even though some of them have done some great research, they haven't been able to make the slightest mark on the fencing world. As a weak metaphor, take boxing for example. A century ago, we boxed differently (see the Boxing article in our e-zine (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=473)). While these ancient schools of boxing are interesting from a historic standpoint, you don't see Lennox Lewis adopt a classical guard position. Now, you can argue that in bare-knuckle days, the classic guard was more useful, just like you can argue in long rapier days, the Sapnish school was more useful. but you can aruge that until you're blue in the face - it won't do crap for you in today's ring (or today's fencing strip).

What's more, today's fencing is electrified, meaning that the weapons are rigged with electronic detectors to reveal unquestionably when a palpable hit has been scored. Now we can register hits that were too fast for the human eye, but would have produced blood on the field of play. That has changed the game significantly. Some argue that we've lost classical form (they do that 'til they're blue in the face too).

Vash

04-23-2004, 11:11 AM

Very interesting.

Thanks for the info.

Ironwind

04-28-2004, 07:09 AM

Very intresting. By any chance Gene would that same medafore work with practicing forms and katas over and over until you lose all originality in battle.

GeneChing

05-07-2004, 10:15 AM

I don't see a connection. First of all, practicing something over and over is really the only way to get it. In fencing, it may be a certain combination, like a beat in 4 with ballestra, feint in 6, lunge. In boxing, it might be a right cross, left cross, right uppercut. You got to practice. Period. What makes CMA and many asian arts unique is the forms. Forms are really just elongated combos. CMA adds internal TCM principles too, but for the sake of this argument, let's just look at the combos. Originality in battle is not really important - you can always think of original ways to lose. Spontaneity, perhaps, is what you mean, at least in the context of appropriate spontaneity (again, you can spontaneously lose). You don't want to be a predictable 'robot' but this can come from forms practice or combo practice, if you practice it like a robot. It's all a matter of how you practice, what your intention is.

Now with the demise of the Spanish school, I suppose you could draw an analogy to some forms practice, but I'd difer on the point that the Spanish school didn't advocate it as a health practice like CMA. Sure, all sports say that they make you healthier - fencing too, even back then. But the TCM angle of CMA allows for the existence of, say tai chi, as strictly a health practice. That's very unique, really. You don't see cardio-kickboxing or MMA being taught at old folks homes and senior centers. Also there was the technological change, the ability to make better swords. That really didn't affect CMA in the same way that it did fencing. So while you can make an analogy, I think it would be a faulty one.

Christopher M

05-28-2004, 06:06 AM

Have you trained in or 'touched swords' against the Spanish school?

Your description of it sounds like the popular polemics against it, rather than a description of the style itself. For example, the footwork is actually very simple - certainly no more complex than French or Italian footwork.

As for being defunct, this simply isn't the case. Every year there is a week-long retreat in California in Spanish rapier, and it is taught in a handfull of other workshops throughout the year, and of course regularly in New York. Of the various people who've been exposed to it through these events, I haven't heard a single negative review - and at each event, there are tournaments where Spanish practitioners hold their own against the more common Italian, French, and English stylists.

If you are arguing against historical work on swordsmanship in general, there is nothing unique in the Spanish case - the other European national styles have been just as lost as the Spanish ones. Like you say though - you can argue until you're blue in the face, and it doesn't change the simple fact that fencers trained in the Spanish style compete successfully against those trained in other styles.

As for a lighter, smaller blade being superior, I don't think the situation is quite so simple. As you noted, there is a dynamic interaction between the characteristics of the style, the characteristics of the weapon, and the environment in which they were being used. One of the things that permitted swords to become smaller and lighter is that their use became restricted to the duel - which means the wielder can reliably assume he'll be facing a weapon similar to his own. The rapier pre-dated this evolution, and has characteristics that reflect the necessity of facing a variety of large, heavy weapons.

Perhaps are you conflating modern fencing and historical european swordsmanship? The two are significantly different. There's no foreseeable way the Spanish style, or any comparable historical method, could have much of an impact on the modern fencing community - their weapons and methods are not permitted in the context of modern fencing rules.

BTW, the Spanish style did not just disappear. As in the other countries, the rapier style evolved into a smallsword style there straight through the 1800s.

For interest here (http://www.martinez-destreza.com/inosanto.htm) are some pictures of Dan Inosanto studying Spanish rapier.

TaiChiBob

05-28-2004, 07:36 AM

Greetings..

Thanks, Chris.. a fascinating link..

Be well..

Christopher M

05-31-2004, 11:29 AM

People may be interested in checking out this (http://artofcombat.org/public/thespis/Convention/ISMACScheduleWebpage1.htm) for some hands-on experience in these traditions.

decafyeti

06-05-2004, 10:15 AM

Gene handled that beautifully. I have a hard time keeping the sarcasm out of my replies (when Spanish Fly goes on about the fact that a handful of
recreationists having a weekend retreat in California makes their interpretation valid, I would have mentioned that there are several weekend workshops every year in California that purport to teach you how to levitate, no doubt using ancient pricipals as well).

These guys all suffer from the "the only world that exists is the little one that I can see outside my front door" and have no idea of the scope and depth of modern fencing because of the deliberately constricted views of a few posseurs. They argue for their limitations and they get them, every time.

The boxing analogy is very apt, I think. In both boxing and fencing (and for that matter, any sparring sport) you have immediate feedback if you do something
wrong or right. That is why boxing has developed as it has; the person who is still standing at the end of the match is right. You can argue against that until
you are blue in the face, but unless you are man enough to get in the ring and take on the pervailing style and win, you are just a whiner and a coward.

I have always fenced with any classical fencer that had the courage to pit his skill against mine and always had a very enjoyable bout and pretty much wiped
the floor with them. The sad thing is that several of the "Classical" instructors that I have met encourage their students NOT to fence outside of their little
enclaves. That does not teach their students to analyze and adapt, which are the hallmarks of a successful fighter.

They say they teach fencing as if they were going to fight a real duel, but neglect many of the realities of being in a fight: That faster and stronger people have an advantage. Better footwork, bigger advantage. More practice in analysis and adaptation, more success in a fight.

Much easier to form you own little associations and groups, exclude any practioner of the prevailing style, certify yourselves as "Masters", set up your
own rules and argue with other little groups about them, rather than adapting your style.

These are the people who would best enjoy forms/kata type work. Making pretty actions as the first priority, with actually hitting your opponent as a secondary priority. In the last two scuffles I enjoyed here in the Big, Bad City I can't say that I was concerned about my form or how the on-lookers would rate the my actions, but on the efficiency of subduing my opponent. Most of the "classical" espouse a martial stance and then do things that are counter to winning a fight: go to a limited target, go slow enough for people to see it, do not do any cross-training to get faster or stronger, adopt stiff postures, move at one tempo (I have yet to see any tempo change among the annointed).

Whew! That is my rant, and I'm sticking to it.

Christopher M

06-05-2004, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by decafyeti
Much easier to form you own little associations and groups, exclude any practioner of the prevailing style, certify yourselves as "Masters", set up your
own rules and argue with other little groups about them, rather than adapting your style.

I agree. You may note it's not the classical or historical guys doing the excluding here. ;)

GeneChing

06-07-2004, 10:13 AM

The so-called classical/historical guys don't play. They don't come out to compete. Consequently, they don't lose.

Now FWIW, we should note that modern fencing is quite different than CMA. It has a long history as a sport and a well documented body of literature that goes back for centuries. CMA's history is spotty at best and the methods of tournaments are fairly new; wushu has only been around since the 70's, sanda/sanshou since the 90's, UFC even hasn't been around that long and prior modern tournaments don't go back before WWII really, if even that far (I'd date it more around the Korean War for it to really take hold here in the USA). But fencing, we've all been playing the same mutually agreed upon game for quite some time. By all, I mean the entire world, not just the European nations, but everyone, including China (in fact, China had a great female Olympiad recently, gold medalist Luan Jujie (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=368).) Now, of course, there have been changes, most recently electrical scoring, but fencing has been part of the modern Olympics since its inception, not just as fencing alone, but also as part of pentathalon.

Now when it comes to the Spanish school, well, I find it kind of funny because no one was talking about it when I was fencing. I retired from fencing around the late eighties, so to find a new 'historical' school emerge since I've left the game is funny. To give you some perspective, I wasn't your average fencer. I was captain of the Epee squad for SJSU and am certified as a provost master both by the FIE and the U.S. Army ROTC. This means was not only a competitor (although I'll admit my competitive record was lackluster) but I also underwent an intensive two-year training program to get my provost degree which culminated in the submission of the thesis and a gruelling day-long examination. Of course, I taught fencing a little too, but again to be honest, not that much. Then I made my living making and selling fencing equipment for about 5 years at American Fencer's Supply (www.amfence.com). I had given up fencing around the time I was working there, focusing more on CMA. I left that company in the early 90's. At that point, no one was talking about Spanish fencing at all. It was sort of an aside note in the historical review that I underwent for my masters, but that's it. My only research into it was working on Thibault's Mysterious Circle, which I did for a shirt design (http://www.amfence.com/html/apparel.html) and a mural for American Fencer's.

So when you talk about hands on experience, we're all for out. Come on out and play. I'm sure there's plenty of fencing tournaments that you can participate in. Rack up some gold. Then people will start to respect the school again.

Christopher M

06-08-2004, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by GeneChing
The so-called classical/historical guys don't play. They don't come out to compete. Consequently, they don't lose.

They can't compete with modern rules because modern rules forbids their techniques. They hold open tournaments which don't forbid modern techniques and which modern trained fencers can (and do) join. This seems like the modern guys doing the excluding.

I'm sorry you didn't hear about Spanish fencing. I'm not entirely sure what your point is: the world is not limited by your familiarity.

Vash

06-08-2004, 05:33 AM

. . . first, great posts.

Second, I wanna do some Spanish fencing. It looks cool, and the Demystification article on it was certainly interesting.

GeneChing

06-08-2004, 09:55 AM

Here's the point. I'm very familiar with fencing up until about a decade ago, about as familiar as you could be. I had to be, it's where I earned my living. Nobody talked about the Spanish because they weren't even on the map then. The revitalization of the Spanish school is very recent. No, the world may not be limited by my familiarity, but the fencing world is fairly narrow, so it's not hard to be that familiar with it all. Just look at the history of fencing, you won't find much mention of the Spanish school in the last century. Don't make me dust off my Thimm to cite some dates...

Let's look at boxing again. Imagine somebody wanted to use a technique forbidden by modern rules, like say 'elbows'. Of course, the international boxing world would disavow them because it wasn't boxing, so this elbow school did it's own open tournaments and called it elbonian boxing. Let's say be generous and say there are a 1000 people who participate in elbonian boxing. These elbonian boxers never manage to secure any significant wins in any international competition. How do you think the boxing world will react? They'd say "Why should we play this new elbonian boxing game? Why can't you guys play the original game? Is your style to weak to stand up in the normal game?"

The fencing world is much older than the boxing world. We have internationally accepted rules, internationally recognized certification programs for instructors, provosts and masters, and a worldwide following. In short, we are very well established in the world. Can you call your new game something else? SCA or something? Fencing is neatly defined. The whole use of the term "modern fencing' is a bit silly. There's fencing. Then there's people who do stuff with fencing swords. Just like there's boxing and people who do stuff with boxing gloves.

Plus you really lost me here -
They hold open tournaments which don't forbid modern techniques and which modern trained fencers can (and do) join. This seems like the modern guys doing the excluding. - If some 'modern' fencers are joining, who's doing the excluding?

Christopher M

06-08-2004, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by GeneChing
I'm very familiar with fencing up until about a decade ago... Nobody talked about the Spanish

My initial assessment to your remarks here was "Perhaps are you conflating modern fencing and historical european swordsmanship? The two are significantly different", and this seems increasingly confirmed as you elaborate.

If I was interested in elbonian boxing, I would go train in elbonian boxing. And if a bunch of boxers claimed I was weak and a coward because I was doing something other than they're doing, I'd think they're a bunch of narcissistic twits. And if they thought that nothing in the world counts unless it wins boxing bouts, I'd be convinced of it.

Returning to fencing: chinese swordsmanship hasn't won any olympic fencing bouts either, and I do that too. Do you take me as twice as weak and twice the coward for the affectation? Oh well.

It is a safe bet that at the moment you wrote that historical Spanish fencing was extinct, and each moment you've defended that assertion, that someone, somewhere was fencing with that method. Food for thought.

decafyeti

06-08-2004, 06:05 PM

How come Bruce Lee studied fencing and not the defunct Spanish school? Because it was not in existence at the time. It has been recently reborn from the research of Mr. Martinez and a few others. It was not handed down in an unbroken chain, from master to apprentice. It is a recreation of how it might have been.

Mr. Martinez is unusually and laudably forthcoming about his credentials on his website (a practice practioners of all arts would do well to follow) but a bit vague on those of his mentor, Maitre Rohdes; I would like to have known more about him.

"Sport" fencing has been handed down in an unbroken chain and evolved and modified into a fast paced martial *sport* (where Tai Kwan Do is heading and boxing already is). Martinez and his compatriots are the modern equivalents of the Victorians Hutton, Castle and Burton, recreationists in their own right, rebelling intellectually against the "sportification" of swordplay in a world coming to be ruled by gunpowder.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing. In fact, from a historical standpoint it is to be commended.

If your group allows modern fencers with modern (pistol grip) weapons to compete in your tournaments, then I salute you for your open policies; on the West Coast and in the Midwest, the Classicals are not so open minded.

Why can you not use your weapons in our modern tournaments? Because we are an international Olympic sport with rules that are applied world wide, just like basketball, just like motorcycle racing.

However, If you want to fence in a club against sport fencers, I'm sure that some (not all) clubs with an open floor policy would be interested in the experiment.

You would have to do what was common in the 19th and early 20th centuries and negotiate what target was valid and agree on weapons (remember during the time of the duel, weapons were of a similar weight and length so that ability would decide the match, not technology) but it is do-able.

I would guess that such interaction would bring a greater understanding of the relative philosophies of the two groups.

I certainly have had plenty of experience fencing with classical fencers (the few who come out to the clubs and tournaments) and as I wrote earlier, I have enjoyed crossing blades with them. But, even by the most basic rule of "hit and don't get hit" they are lacking. Why?

If you were going to be in a gunfight tomorrow, would you like a nice cap-and-ball Navy Colt (a fine revolver and very reliable) or would you rather have a 9mm Glock with a laser sight? Don't see too many cops or soldiers with percussion cap revolvers, as good as those pistols are.

Why? Because, like it or not, modern training and science have really improved the effectiveness of some basic human activities, like violence.

19th century training gets you slower movement and stiff posture. Modern training gets you speed and strength and absolute control of distance as well as simple hand techinque because the action is too fast to allow for such inefficient yet beautiful actions that make up the old school phrase d'armes.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my classical training during my coaching education. You get to learn all sorts of fun and arcane moves. The modern game is too fast and athletic for much of that, though.

I am awaiting your riposte.

Christopher M

06-09-2004, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by decafyeti
If you were going to be in a gunfight tomorrow, would you like a nice cap-and-ball Navy Colt (a fine revolver and very reliable) or would you rather have a 9mm Glock with a laser sight?

A more germane consideration would be if I was going to be in a swordfight tomorrow. While this is not at all likely, were it to occur, I would prefer to have trained in an environment that addressed lateral movement, percussive techniques, and grappling, because they would be sure to occur in such an unstructured engagement.

But in any case, I have no interest in debating one school's superiority or another's. If the derisive remarks and allegations of extinction are dropped, then I have no complaint.

GeneChing

06-09-2004, 10:32 AM

...and what if they aren't dropped?

I received one of my provost degrees in classical Italian fencing. I really enjoyed the theory, in fact, it changed the way I think about combat in general. I even did that using a traditional Italian grip with a true ricasso, pas 'danes, wrist strap and all. Also, of course, I practice traditional CMA, so don't think that my comments are against traditionalism.

My comments are more directed to the possiblity of creationism. The whole recent revitalization of the Spanish school reminds me of something that happens in the martial arts all the time - the creation of a new myth to justify a secular activity. It's what scholars call (and this is one of my new favorite terms) the invention of tradition. If you do any research in CMA, you'll find that we are very guilty of this, in almost every origin legend. But East is East and West is West - Western fencing is well documented. There's even a massive bibliography - like a phone book - that just lists title after title of fencing books. So you can chart the lineage of the Spanish school, right down to its demise. Now maybe Martinez's lineage was keeping some ancient teaching alive, like some renegade Shaolin monk or something - I'm open to that just as much as I'm open to the often 're-discovered' Wing Chun skirt fighting techniques of Yim Wing Chun. But I'm also skeptical. If those skirt techniques didn't survive, there's probably a reason, just from a Darwinian perspective. Unless they could prove themselves on the field, I'll remain skeptical.

decafyeti

06-10-2004, 04:31 PM

Debating the superiority of one school over another is what makes this fun! Also, the Spanish school is, as I have written previously, extinct.

What you are doing is the "Martinez School of What Spanish Fencing May Have Been Based Upon Thorough Research of Written Documents From The Time of Thibault". Which as I wrote before is cool in itself, but still it is recreated from books.

Why from books?

Because it died out. No living practioners. They were surpassed by the French and Italians who adapted their styles and continued the march into the present. Otherwise, Martinez could have gone to Spain and learned it from a practioner.

Enjoy it for what it is, historical re-creation with some apparently good scholarship behind it, a modern reconstruction.

Scrap Meister

06-10-2004, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Christopher M

A more germane consideration would be if I was going to be in a swordfight tomorrow. While this is not at all likely, were it to occur, I would prefer to have trained in an environment that addressed lateral movement, percussive techniques, and grappling, because they would be sure to occur in such an unstructured engagement.

But in any case, I have no interest in debating one school's superiority or another's. If the derisive remarks and allegations of extinction are dropped, then I have no complaint.

The vast majority of fencing masters today, with degrees conferred by the various, cooperative, international governing bodies are the direct decendants of masters who taught people to fight duels, not brawls. Duels have been extremely formal affairs for a couple of hundred years. While you may need the lateral movement, although in many instances that, too, would have been proscribed by the rules of engagement, it would be highly unlikely that grappling or smacking someone would be allowed. Duels are arranged affairs, with very clearly delineated rules of engagement. Duels with swords in the past ~100 years do not involve such dramatic breaches of etiquette as you describe, duellists being at least as concerned for their social status as their skin.

With some possible exceptions, classical fencing training today is, in some form or other, modern interpretations and derivations of past technique as described in extant literature. There are NO direct lines of instruction for Ancient Techniques of western swordplay. Since all such instruction would have to adapt with ever changing technology, the instructors of 15th century swordplay would have been outmoded by the instruction required to save your skin with 17th century sword technology. Of course, there is commonality - long, pointy metal sticks intended for piercing opponents - but you can't dress up "classical" fencing as anything like "true" technique until you or somebody invents a time machine and can prove your theory.

That's why sport fencers take issue so often with classical fencing. The assumption in a fighting sport has to be 'ok, you got game, bring it.' That doesn't imply ill treatment or rudeness, it just means, until you're willing to bring it, nobody is going to respect it unless you insulate yourself with cronies or lackeys. Like it or not, Olympic style sport fencing is the one western style fecning art that can trace it's origins back over generations. There are classical instructors who can claim some piece of that history, but once they take themselves out of mainstream and into isolation amongst "true believers", they've turned their back on the sport their internationally recognized, trainer of champions instructors lived for. Those originals, faced with a modernized game (if you could bring them to today) wouldn't hide in a gymnasium and proclaim their mastery - they'd get out on the strip and prove to all comers just who's got game. That's what made them champions; they brought the goods. In turn, that success as competitors made them teachers, instructors, masters. So they could, in turn, show others to bring game. No teacher worthy of the name, in any sport, would shield their students from the world, unless they were holding them back for reasons of age or maturity. But once unleashed, the student goes forth to try, play, learn, win, lose, whatever.

Fencing is fencing. Call yourself a fencer, even if all your pedagogy is out of a book, sooner or later somebody's gonna call you to bring some game. If you won't, what can people do but assume you can't?

Until the 'classical' gamers can bring some, they'll be marginalized by the fencing world. If they don't care, and want to live in my world and play in theirs, that's cool. Just drop the "fencer" moniker. Maybe "classical sword playerist" would work.

And finally: School, schmool. There aren't schools, today. Schools are defined today by noting that we need to: 'be better than those people'. The lines between "french school", "italian school" and "hungarian school" are all gone, except as a point of national pride for those people cool enough to have their own school named for their nation. Don't forget the "german school" and the "polish school". Since at least the '60's there's been the "russian school" and now there's the "chinese school" the "cuban school" and the "south korean school". And none of those "schools" are going to take smack from anybody, pick what school you want. They got game, and they'll bring it. The top school is whoever wins today. Tomorrow, different. But the "classical" school people? Not in the game. Well read, erudite? Can be. Historically accurate knowledge? Often. Tough bout? Not likely.

Of course, I guess a swordfight could just break out, I dunno, at the mall or something. Then, I guess, the grappling techniques might be handy. :-]

Christopher M

06-11-2004, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by Scrap Meister
Duels with swords in the past ~100 years do not involve such dramatic breaches of etiquette as you describe, duellists being at least as concerned for their social status as their skin.

Indeed, this is one of the main distinctions between classical and historical fencing, with the historical period being older than this 100 year period your describe, and into an era were use did occur outside the duel. And such a historic method is precisely, as I have noted from the outset, what I am talking about.

It seems like the consistent problem here is that you guys think someone is appropriating your method when they're not. Here's an example: you're criticizing the stance from the classical period perspective yet that wasn't the perspective in question.

Previously, it was noted critically that historical fencers are descendants of Hutton and Castle and not of the mainstream of fencing which has developed into modern theory - again, this is precisely what they say themselves.

Working with historical methods has been criticized here, yet again - as decafyeti pointed out, Martinez and the like are entirely up front with what they're doing.

All of these - all of your complaints from the beginning - have been based of all of your own entirely incorrect assumptions as to what is going on; that is to say - based on your ignorance.

until you're willing to bring it, nobody is going to respect it

The historical method cannot be transposed onto the modern framework, because in so doing it would lose those very elements which distinguish it as historical. This was addressed above in noting the distinction between the classical and historical periods.

Historical fencers, by and large, have no interest at all in earning a modern fencers "respect"; in "proving it." They're attracted, and have typically gone to great length to participate in (as it is not so populous a field as modern fencing), those exact elements characteristic of the historic approach. The implication that it's somehow flawed until it can be done in the modern context shows a complete ignorance of this fact that it's the historical context which was of interest to begin with. This is like telling a soccer player he doesn't count as an athlete until he can win a football game. Most soccer players would not dignify such an absurdity with a response. As I'm regretting having done so in this case, and there seems little left to clarify (either you get it at this point or you're stilling clinging to that axe hoping to gring it), I'll withdraw. To give you all the benefit of the doubt, I will go inform those I know working on historical methods that they do not exist. If they vanish like mirages at this revelation, I'll return and apologize for my misunderstanding. Otherwise, good practice to you.

I am glad that those in this conversation new to fencing are intrigued by what the historical method has to offer. This seems to be the typical response, and gives us some hope for the future of these teachings.

Scrap Meister

06-12-2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Christopher M

As I'm regretting having done so in this case, and there seems little left to clarify (either you get it at this point or you're stilling clinging to that axe hoping to gring it), I'll withdraw. To give you all the benefit of the doubt, I will go inform those I know working on historical methods that they do not exist. If they vanish like mirages at this revelation, I'll return and apologize for my misunderstanding. Otherwise, good practice to you.

Ok, now that cracked me up. :-]

I get it up to a certain point, and then my brain turns into a path that doesn't get it at all. It's totally my problem. It's why I can't dress up in costume for the Ren Faire, and know with certainty the life-through-fantasy-life of the SCA crowd isn't for me.

It is odd; after all, I like swords and I like history. The root of the problem for me stems from the fact that Castle, et al, based their teaching on their own conjecture of how it must have worked in the olden days. A lot of Historicals take their work as Truth. Some don't, and they'll pursue their own lines of conjecture from the same root source material or other original sources - mostly.

It's my own issue that currency and relevance are more important to me.

I don't intend to inflict wrath upon your head, and won't. You made me laugh, so I concede the touch. I'll just make one last remark about my own ignorance.

By a wide margin, the Classical and Historical fencers I've met or watched have struck me as posers. I've met far more Classical fencers, so I'll abstain from the Historical discussion henceforth.

There is extremely little margin for poser-hood in sport fencing. There is a wealth of poser talent amongst the Classical fencers I have met.

I admit, it colors my opinion overall.

GeneChing

06-14-2004, 01:50 PM

It seems like the consistent problem here is that you guys think someone is appropriating your method when they're not. I don't think that's it at all. I think most fencers would like it if the 'classicalists' or 'historicals' appropriated some of the 'modern' method. Then they could fence. As it stands, they can't fence. So why bother?

Let's look at another sport for an analogy, because I feel that you might be trying to bring in the old "street reality' argument so prevalent in the martial arts today and that's really not relevent here. It's 2004. There hasn't been a real street swordfight in quite some time and the possibility of a new one is quite unlikely.

So let's look at baseball (BTW, I think your soccer/football analogy is way off base here). I don't think I have to go far to describe the state of baseball in the USA. It's got formally agreed upon rules (although there's some international disagreement between Japan and the US, but the rules of all sports are constantly changing). Now imagine a group is playing 'stick ball' and calling it baseball. Stickball could be thought of as historical baseball, yes? Now suppose they started calling it baseball. What would the baseball players think? Probably not much. Truth is that baseball is so big that the notion of a stickball league, which probably does exist somewhere, has such a minimal impact. I'm sure the baseball players would think it's really funny. Just like any fencer might think about whatever you might be doing, Christopher M. If you want to fence, fence. If you want to play stickball, go for it. But just like you wouldn't call stickball baseball, don't call your game fencing.

While fencing is not that big in the USA, there are plenty of reputable clubs and competitions across the country. It's even NCAA. Fence for real, with other fencers outside your school. It's a fun sport and a great tradition.

I should dig up that old fencing thread we had on the main forum a while back. that might be fun to add those guys to this discussion. What do you think?

yenhoi

06-14-2004, 04:18 PM

If you want to fence, fence.

Looks to me like there is sword-fighting (no holds barred fighting with swords), then there is fencing (with all its rules and regulations imposed ontop of the "fighting with swords".)

If a fencer told a kalista to bring it with a blade or any weapon, I doubt he would consider himself bound by any rules, specially the ones that make sword-fighting into fencing. What does it matter that the kalista would do poorly in a fencing format?

"Fencing" is just a set of rules, no matter how well documented. Just a game.

:eek:

Scrap Meister

06-14-2004, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by yenhoi
If you want to fence, fence.

Looks to me like there is sword-fighting (no holds barred fighting with swords), then there is fencing (with all its rules and regulations imposed ontop of the "fighting with swords".)

If a fencer told a kalista to bring it with a blade or any weapon, I doubt he would consider himself bound by any rules, specially the ones that make sword-fighting into fencing. What does it matter that the kalista would do poorly in a fencing format?

"Fencing" is just a set of rules, no matter how well documented. Just a game.

:eek:

I guess I'm out of the loop, news-wise. I've missed all the reports of murders & deaths by swordfighting. Where is all this no-holds-barred fighting with swords going on?

There is fencing and, to use Mr. Ching's term, stickball. :-]

That aside, your latter analogy doesn't wash. Fencers train to use their blades to hit their opponent in the most immediate and effective manner. If you mean by throwing out the rules, they would throw out their technique, then you miss the mark by a wide margin. If, and this is a mighty big IF, I was ever in a position to use a sword to defend myself, I would use one I was very familiar with and use it in the way I've been trained. I wouldn't pick up a duelling sword and start grappling with my opponent or attempt to use my free hand to strike my opponent's eyes. I'd use the duelling sword the way it's meant to be used. Every rule of combat I've ever learned would come out in spades, except stopping - until I knew I was safe. The only rules that apply to fencing as a sport that don't apply to fighting or duelling are counting points and common courtesy. Other than that, it's a fight with swords, full speed. And nobody gets hurt. That's what makes it such a cool sport.

yenhoi

06-15-2004, 05:09 AM

Fencers train to use their blades to hit their opponent in the most immediate and effective manner

This is not true. They train to hit someone using the same (both people use the same weapon) outdated swords (training blades, but none-the-less) under a very strict set of circumstances (rules.)

/ I would use one I was very familiar with and use it in the way I've been trained

Exactly. And with the limitations imposed by training "fencing" you would die. It is not an effectice way to train modern or historical "blade." Its a very specific way of training and playing a made-up game.

The rest of your post is IFs and BUTs. What if I attacked you with a sword? To start with, yours wouldent be on you. What if I grabbed you in short range? What if I smashed at you with the butt? What if who cares. Fencing is very well documented training method. We all know the rules and what "they" (you fencers) actually train for. There are other bladed methods out there - moder, historical, filiphino, whatever label you want - that train just as full-contact as fencing, and just as full-explosiveness, as fencing, but train with less limitations: no specific weapondry ('specially outdated weapondry, like the epee), no specific limitations on movement (like the strip or right-of-way.)

All of these are good training methods and obviously do develop good blade fighting attributes. Fencing is a very specific game, with a very well documented history of its lineage to true blade-fighting methods and its entire mutation from that to its current sport. Its all in the books Gene has read and written about.

:confused:

GeneChing

06-17-2004, 04:52 PM

That's a really funny concept actually. Kind of like full contact bowling. But coming from a MA standpoint, I can see where the idea of full contact fencing might seem appealing.

Fencing actually derived from duelling, not battlefield warfare or street fights. I'd attribute the advances in firearm technology to the state of the modern game. Fencing, as we know it, was practiced under the shadow of the gun. It existed in duelling - duels of honor - so rules were very well outlined. Sword duels of honor existed until fairly recently, and some might argue that they still do in Mensur circles. I've been told (but have never personally verified) that it was Governor Reagan that removed legal duelling from CA law and the Louisiana still has duelling under what they call "napoleonic law". Anyway, a duel is a very formal affair. There are all these safeguards so that honor is upheld, face is saved and theoretically, but rarely in practice, the was some margin of safety. The notion of street swordfights like the Three Musketeers or something, died out once guns became fairly handy, ofr obvious reasons. Those duels were fought in on strips with rules of play. Check those books again and you'll see.

Now duelling is a specific art, something that tests man-to-man (or woman-to-woman, or woman-to-man) fairly. It's sort of like chess. In fact, as I'm sure you know, fencing is often called the 'physical chess.' You can look at chess like a metaphor for combat, sort of a tactical training game. You can argue that it would be good to add things like lind minds to the chess board, since that might exist in a real war. You can keep doing this additions until you have something quite different, more like a wargame, like Risk. But in the end, chess is still a better test. It's a better duel because the rules keep it clean. It's better training because there are more people to spar with you. So who's better in the end, the world chess champion or the world Risk champion? I suppose it's relative to your perpective, but I can actually think of people, real names of chess champions. I've seen chess columns in the daily newspaper. I even see them playing chess on Market st. I never see that with Risk.

As weapons go, it's true that the modern foil and saber have been extrapolated to something more safe. Fencing injuries still occur, although they're fairly rare because of these safety measures. The epee is still pretty accurate to latter day swords and I'll argue it's a remarkably effective weapon. Just put a live point on one. In fact, as you know, I have extensive weapons training, and I still think that an epee would be one of the top weapons of choice in a real fight. I'd also argue that the power in fencing is the point work, not the blade work. Realistically, saber blade work is lost in the modern game. But it's all in the point. Most weapon styles have to be very cautious about point work because it's so injurious. In Kendo, for example, you can't use the tsuki (sp?) or throat jab until your earned your first dan. A stick or a shinai can't really bend, so if you really get behind it, you can still hurt someone prety badly, armor and all. But the modern fencing sword absorbs the bend of the blow in the weapon. So fencers can work the point like no other combat sport.

If I can be fast and accurate with a sharp, I don't need power. I've put a sharp epee through wood with minimal effort. That's an epee, mind you, not even something stiffer, like a musketeer blade (a double thick epee blade). It would take less to penetrate skin and puncture an organ.

BTW, you're IFs and BUTs rebuttal would work better if you didn't say 'if' right after. That undoes it all. True, you can cite other sword combative arts, but that's really apples and oranges here. Nobody is questioning the validity of kendo or escrima or even CMA sword arts here. What is in question is whether or not the re-creation fo historical fencing schools has any validity, especially when there's a clear evolution to modern fencing.

yenhoi

06-18-2004, 12:14 AM

What is in question is whether or not the re-creation fo historical fencing schools has any validity, especially when there's a clear evolution to modern fencing.

If recreated historical fencing school stylists cannot even compete in real fencing competitions due to the rules (limitations) - specifically the weapon requirements, but "real fencers" CAN enter recreated historical school competitions and rarely fare very well due to the other competitors use of foul tactics and dirty tricks... who is really fooling who when it comes to talking about "bringing game" to prove whos "fencing" is a real and viable method?

Arent there numerous accounts of many duels where participants used foul tactics and dirty tricks like grabbing and punching?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

yenhoi

06-18-2004, 12:25 AM

Fencers dont train to use the actual sharp of their tool against resisting opponents. How much training time is devoted to poking blocks of wood?

But in the end, chess is still a better test

I disagree. What about Go? How can you get any "cleaner" then Go? Why does anyone care about Chess Champion names or columns? Because they care, not because of the nature of the game. Just because a guy is good at chess and people who know about chess know his name doesnt make him smart, it only makes him good at chess. A game. I dont accept your metaphor as accurate.

:eek:

Scrap Meister

06-18-2004, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by yenhoi
Fencers dont train to use the actual sharp of their tool against resisting opponents. How much training time is devoted to poking blocks of wood?

But in the end, chess is still a better test

I disagree. What about Go? How can you get any "cleaner" then Go? Why does anyone care about Chess Champion names or columns? Because they care, not because of the nature of the game. Just because a guy is good at chess and people who know about chess know his name doesnt make him smart, it only makes him good at chess. A game. I dont accept your metaphor as accurate.

:eek:

Gene didn't say "chess is the best test of martial brain skill". He said it was a better test than Risk. Risk is a game, like chess, only by Parker Bros and not nearly as old.

To your first point, of course not! No fencer uses a sharp sword to practice. No more than kendo uses sharp katana instead of shinai for bouting practice. That's why it's practice, and not murder or death. That's why fencing has such a long history - it's for practice. Practicing being good at hitting an opponent without being hit. That is the goal. Not hitting a block of wood. An opponent. Gene's point, if I may, Gene, was that a sharp epee can penetrate a block of wood fairly easily if well handled. Or pierce skin. Not that you'd want to do either for any practical reason. But the wood test is an interesting one. From it (I've done it, too) you learn by extrapolation how easily you could be punctured by such a weapon. Sorry, outmoded weapon. Just like every other sword is outmoded. By guns. That's why fencing has rules and is a game. It's outmoded. We do it for fun. It's entertainment. It has no practical, specific or useful day to day application. Not in most workplaces, not at the mall, not on the street, not at a bar. It will not help you, except as a learning experience that may inform other aspects of your concious thought and expression.

Consequently, we defend it's name from schisms and factions that attempt to influence others into believing that they are "fencing". Some do this well. "Historical Fencing"; fine - specific and clear. We can argue how accurate the history is until we're all blue. But it is distinguishable from western style fencing. So, we're good. "Classical Fencing"; somewhat clear, but practitioners often lay claim to being "how fencing ought to be" which is where conflict can arise. Worst is "Fencing"; instruction offered by charlatans and posers who either have no formal instruction or have corrupted what instruction they have had, and turned the game into something not quite right, but with the same name. That's where the confusion and frustration lies.

The thing I appreciate about CMA and other eastern MA schools is that, for the most part, they seem to pick cool new names when they spin off from a root stalk. A well known example is, of course, Jeet Kune Do. Bruce created something new. He didn't call it Wing Chun. It was different, he knew it was different, and he made an effort to differentiate it. When people walked in, I can't imagine anyone made the mistake of expecting Wing Chun. You went for his thing.

In fencing, if it's all called the same thing, how does someone interested in "fencing" know whether they're getting a trained expert in fencing or a charlatan?

You don't. It's just luck or fate or whatever. Most places are fine, but there are enough exceptions to make this arguement over use of the word happen all too frequently.

Fingers.... suddenly tired... cramping.... must stop.....

decafyeti

06-19-2004, 10:35 AM

This is all fairly easy to work out; if you are polite and somewhat commonsensical, you go and visit a few fencing clubs (you can find a regional guide here: www.usfencing.org, "new to fencing") and talk to the people in charge. You will probably find someone pretty quickly that has a genuine interest in swords and sword history (or else, why fence?).

Ask if they want to swap training, fencing for whatever MA you do. I have known several people who have done this to the enrichment of both parties. This goes for you "historical" and "classical" types as well.

There is a group of "historicals" near by that practice regularly at one of the local clubs (practice fencing that is, not the "historical" stuff) because, in their words, "modern fencing is swordplay stripped of the bells and whistles, it is pure concentration on hitting".

For their own play, they have some pretty commonsensical rules that make sense to me (they have to have rules, too, since they are using blunt weapons; if they were usuing sharp weapons, whomever was left standing would be the clear winner, rules or no) and they do a lot of historical research, collect historical weapons, due some actual bladesmithing, and the like. I have never failed to have an interesting conversation with these folks.

So I recommend that you put away your computer for a while, seek out other experiences and learn from them. I have had great enjoyment from my brushes with CMA, kendo, Arnis/Kali/Escrima, and some historical swordplay. Met great people and learned things that I could use in my martial philosophy if not in my art.

The truth is that you probably have more in common than you think.

Hit well, hit often!

Decafyeti

GeneChing

06-21-2004, 10:39 AM

On your two comments above, sure there was foul play in duels. There still is today. I'll cite the example of Tyson biting off an ear. Should all boxers now train to defend their ears from biting attacks because one guy cheated? As if boxing isn't hard enough already. The point here is that you are trying to put a martial arts lens on an olympic sport - the same is done for boxing and wrestling - and if you have any understanding of the real sport, you'd see why that doesn't really work. It's like looking at modern mass fishing techniques to hunter/gatherer fishing. Modern times have changed it all.

On the second one, on Go, firstly, decafyeti got it. But if your fixated on Go, I'll gladly change the metaphor. Imagine playing go with land mines (sorry for the typo on 'land mines' in my earlier post). Eventually you could turn that into risk too. I still think chess is a better metaphor because of the old fencing/physical chess saying - that would be something I would think a 'historical' fencer would be up on, famous sayings on fencing from history. Your whole point about someone being good at chess and not smart, is downright silly. The same is true for all professional competitors and athletes. Someone might be good at bridge and none-too-bright at filling out tax forms. But the point is that at least they acheived something. The 'historical' fencers haven't really acheived anything. So not only can they be none-too-bright, they can be bad fencers too.

yenhoi

06-21-2004, 11:15 AM

I thought I was pointing out that boxing-fencing-wrestling-etc were just sports/games- very specific training methods for very specific goals/results: scoring according to the rules. Very much removed from true combat methods.

I also thought that some others a few pages back were claiming as truth that one of these games - fencing would and is the true test of combat oriented blade methods. As you say, thats exactly what fencing is not.

I agree that the same holds true for many methods. Although many can/do develop good base attributes for combat, hardly tests of actual skill.

:eek:

Scrap Meister

06-21-2004, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by yenhoi
I thought I was pointing out that boxing-fencing-wrestling-etc were just sports/games- very specific training methods for very specific goals/results: scoring according to the rules. Very much removed from true combat methods.

I also thought that some others a few pages back were claiming as truth that one of these games - fencing would and is the true test of combat oriented blade methods. As you say, thats exactly what fencing is not.

I agree that the same holds true for many methods. Although many can/do develop good base attributes for combat, hardly tests of actual skill.

:eek:

Fencing, the sport, derived from the exact same training methodology as was used to train for fighting duels. Not kinda like that training; exactly that same training. Granted, for a very particular type of fighting. Structured. Rule-bound. But still - combat. If you don't know that, you've either never fenced or never seen good fencing. Or both, I suppose. Fencing, the sport, is what it is. But it's combat training, regardless of whether you're ever called to use it as such.

You're as good as saying no martial training can possibly be worth anything in an actual fight, if you've never fought without rules. Which is silly. That's why armys train. That's why boxers train. That's why I train. I expect _never_ to use a sword for self preservation. But I could.

However, it's all moot- I can't prove it, because I'm not stupid enough to seek such an encounter. Base attributes are all anyone anywhere will ever get from training, until they're faced with a dire situation. What happens in that situation is entirely dependent on the individual. Fight or flee? Duck & cover? What does that individual do? Who can guess? But if it comes down to such a situation, better to have had good training - in any martial activity - than not.

yenhoi

06-22-2004, 12:32 AM

Its not all moot. These things (combat attributes and skills) can be precisely and predictably trained and then tested. This includes bladed weapons.

exactly that same training.

This is also not true. Fencers have much better technology and methodology today then they did even several decades ago.

You're as good as saying no martial training can possibly be worth anything in an actual fight, if you've never fought without rules.

I said nothing of the sort. I said such training, like fencing with very specific limitations were very valuable for developing basic combat attributes. I am questioning some fencers claim that the game of fencing is the end all be all when it comes to being able to "bring it" with a blade.

But I could

I doubt it. You will never have a sword on you to fight anyone with. And your attackers will never have the same weapon as you, my guess.

What happens in that situation is entirely dependent on the individual. Fight or flee?

This is barely true. Again, we can and do train people to respond predictably to variable situations, including weapons. All of us can/do guess and categorize. Its a large part of the training/learning process.

:confused:

GeneChing

06-22-2004, 02:31 PM

I thought I was pointing out that boxing-fencing-wrestling-etc were just sports/games- very specific training methods for very specific goals/results: scoring according to the rules. Very much removed from true combat methods. Back to "true combat" whatever that means. Do you think that boxers can't fight? That seems absurd to me. Maybe they can't kick or wrestle, but they can box. They have the distance, timing and velocity to deliver a knock-out blow. By the same notion, fencers have the distance, timing and velocity to deliver a killing thrust. They can't kick or wrestle. But not all 'true combat' is about kicking and wrestling. Especially not swordplay. All you need is a sharp and it makes it very hard for a grappler (although maybe not as hard for a kicker).

yenhoi

06-22-2004, 09:54 PM

The less limitations/restrictions/rules the closer you get to true combat, which has no limitations/restrictions/rules. The closer fighters train to true combat, the more reliable and effective their trained skillsets are. Attribute development is only step one to developing actual skill that can be predictably "used" against fully resisting opponents.

Punching, kicking, grabbing is not fighting. Fighting is the chaotic measure of all the elements combined. Through training to box. boxers will develop great combat attributes. That doesnt mean there are not more effective methods for training to punch and not be punched that are closer to true combat then the game of boxing.

Especially not swordplay. All you need is a sharp and it makes it very hard for a grappler (although maybe not as hard for a kicker).

When are you going to have a sharp against a grappler? If you did have a blade of some sort, and the "grappler" didnt, of course you would have a great advantage over any other fighter or attacker. How do you know having a sharp makes it hard for a grappler? How/when does fencing address this in its training as a swordplay method? If its an "even match", say a swordsmen who only studies pure swordplay vs a swordsmen who studies combat with blades... then what makes the difference? Not the sharp or knowledge of sharps.

Some methods of emptyhand fighting address all ranges and tools of combat and others dont. The former usually train more regularly closer to "true combat" the others train more regularly with specific limitations and rules. This is the same with swordplay. Some methods look at the whole picture and will develop better overall combat with blade skill, and others train with specific limitations and rules that diminish its true combat skill acquisition value.

Of course all you need is a blade, and obviously boxers can play the game of boxing very well.

:eek:

yenhoi

06-22-2004, 10:01 PM

I dont think I wrote that fencers (or boxers) cant fight. I was pointing to the fact that they dont train to fight, they train to fence. They dont train to fight with bladed weapons, they train to fence. I think this is also what others were saying, but they were also claiming that the game of fencing was the end all be all tests of true tests when it comes to bladed combat, and that, is entirely un-true.

:eek:

Scrap Meister

06-22-2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by yenhoi
I dont think I wrote that fencers (or boxers) cant fight. I was pointing to the fact that they dont train to fight, they train to fence. They dont train to fight with bladed weapons, they train to fence. I think this is also what others were saying, but they were also claiming that the game of fencing was the end all be all tests of true tests when it comes to bladed combat, and that, is entirely un-true.

:eek:

I've given up hoping the suggestion that fencing IS a fight with swords will hold anyone's attention in this discussion.

So I'm going back to sleep now. After writing a note to myself to remind me to be sure to pack steel whenever I go out. Don't really know why though, since I'm hopelessly useless with or without my toy sword. Perhaps it will comfort me after a mugger beats me senseless with a quadrangle.

yenhoi

06-23-2004, 09:46 AM

How on earth is fencing a fight with swords If its understood that neither person will grab, smash, or move off the strip - when those things - grabbing, smashing and moving freely (off the strip) are "allowed" when it comes to actually fighting?

:confused:

Scrap Meister

06-23-2004, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by yenhoi
How on earth is fencing a fight with swords If its understood that neither person will grab, smash, or move off the strip - when those things - grabbing, smashing and moving freely (off the strip) are "allowed" when it comes to actually fighting?

:confused:

Let's just say that on my planet, there are multiple definitions of the word "fight". Try this: www.google.com. Search terms: fight definition. Click on a result from a dictionary.

yenhoi

06-24-2004, 05:25 AM

Silly-talk.

Ok.

:rolleyes:

GeneChing

06-24-2004, 11:16 AM

How do you know having a sharp makes it hard for a grappler? How/when does fencing address this in its training as a swordplay method? For my charity work, I volunteer at the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic. My specialty is managing combative and belligerent patients. The second step of our restraint protocol is physical, which means I get to grapple. I've faced armed patients on more than a few occasions - we once had a patient that was packing seven knives - and I'm telling you from direct experience that a sharp makes it very difficult. If you don't beleive that, well, then who's being silly?

How does fencing address this? Ironically by using the method that you probably least understand - right of way. Foil and saber has a rule about right of way, which basically means that the first fencer to get his or her weapon in line has the right of way, just like the first person to get to a four-way stop sign. This was established for a very real reason. Early fencers did not have the safety measures that we do today (but as a historical fencer, you know that, right?) Today we have kevlar jackets. Back in the day, they didn't even have practice weapons. So right of way was established to prevent to fencers from simultaneously lunging and simlutaneously dying. Now all you need to do to deal with a single opponent when you have a sharp is to put that sharp between you and that opponent with the sharp part facing the opponent. It's simple. It's effective. And it's the foundation of modern fencing. Establish right of way. No one will attack onto an extended weapon (barring the occasional psycho, but then all bets are off for any form of martial arts - and that comes from my volunteer experience too - you just can't predict psychos).

Maestro Charles Selberg used to make this bet with any comer to prove right of way. He would take a live sword and give you a practice weapon. He would then extend his weapon, establishing right of way and bet you that you would not lunge without removing that line. And you can't. It'd be suicide. I've been on the recieving end of Maestro Selberg's bet and it's simply not possible.

yenhoi

06-24-2004, 11:50 AM

Ive heard fencers ***** of right of way before. It doesnt stop someone from grabbing you or your weapon hand, it also doesnt stop them from smashing you or your weapon hand, and it doesnt stop them from changing the angle of attack (stepping off the strip) - which is the basis for fighting someone with a weapon. Right of way doesnt account for grappling.. it explains it away.

Grappling, smashing, and stepping off line are valuable tools to use to help you overcome a opponent with a blade. becaues the blade is simply pointing at you, these tools dont become unavailable.. they become harder.. like everything else.. closing the gap, landing a blow, everything invloved in combat gets harder with a blade.

I thought that by a sharp you meant a long pointy tool like a fencers blade. Of course blades can make all the diff. How does a blade make it harder for grapplers or kickers specifically? They dont. They make everything more difficult for everyone. I dont disagree that fencing will make a man more apt for bladed combat then a man with no blade expierence, but the claim that the game of fencing is the end all be all of bladed combat skill is crazy

Im not a historical fencer. I have no expierence fencing except cross-training with some local fencers, and some of my "seniors" with fencing expierence. I have never claimed extensive knowledge of fencing. I have also not challenged your training methods. You duel masters get offended and ****y far too easily.

:eek:

GeneChing

06-25-2004, 10:14 AM

Given a single opponent, there's no way they can grapple, smash or step off line once right of way is established unless the swordsman can't hold the line. Step in to grapple or smash and you get stabbed. Step off line and the line moves with you.

The notion of the strip being limited is a bit deceiving. Sure, fencing is fought on a strip, but there is room for side stepping. In fact, it's a classical move. You really don't need that mush side stepping when your using swords because of the line. That's a side effect of having a yard of steel. Even kendo, which is fencing in a ring, is fairly linear at the point of engagement.

The only real criticism you can level against fencing and 'real' combat is that of multiple opponents. But you can level that against grapplers too. Let me tell you from street experience, working with the clinic and such - if it's two against one and that one tries to grapple, that one is done. But then again, that's the duel nature of any combat sport. You can't really do multiple combat safely as a sport (wresling battle royales do not count :p ). Imagine multiple combatant boxing. Actually, there is a way to do multiple combatant fencing in western fencing and kendo, but it's a bit surreal. That's the nature of the duel - why, by definition, we use the word "duel."

Vajramusti

06-30-2004, 05:18 PM

A very good post Gene-it's implications go beyond fencing.

I am replying late because I got dropped and had trouble getting back in because the system would recognize only my obsolete email address for my older user name.

All aok now. Thx. Joy Chaudhuri

Vash

07-16-2004, 09:38 PM

TTT!

SifuX-HSK

08-03-2004, 02:28 PM

sorry fells for coming in out of the blue and all late and everything.
but i saw the topic was about fencing, and my gung fu school started doing a little fencing from a student of Dr. William O'Brien,
one of the most famous fencers in the world.

Dr. William O'brien was the only one in the world that was ranked "A" in Foil, Eppe, Saber. He was even acknowldeged by the king of Spain for his achievements. not only a master fencer, He was also an assassin for the OSS.

I was lucky to spend the last few months of his life getting to know him. I listened to all of his old war stories, and even to a few times he had to assassinate someone in detail. he was a master of poisons, stuff so deadly you will die literally in seconds.

anyways, Dr. William O'Brien passed away within the last few years, and the fencing world had suffered a loss.

Do any of you know about him, or have any other personal info on him?

sorry for intruding,

sifu-Xhsk

Apostol

08-03-2004, 07:20 PM

If anyone wants to have good footwork incorporated into their system, you should check out Ba Gua.

GeneChing

08-12-2004, 01:58 PM

I remember the good master although to be honest, I didn't intreact with him that much. I think I may have met him only a handful of times, but never had the honor of taking a lesson from him. I fenced for SJSU, so of course, we knew about Letterman.

BTW, this has nothing to do with that, but someone recently sent me this link for a fencing forum (http://www.fencingsucks.com/) and I thought it should be added to this thread. :p

GeneChing

08-19-2004, 03:21 PM

USA struck it's first fencing gold in a century! Check out online Olympic Fencing coverage (http://www.fencingmedia.org/).

Vash

08-19-2004, 04:43 PM

Congrats to her! I wish I could've seen the match :(

GeneChing

08-23-2004, 10:06 AM

I've not seen any of the Olympic fencing on TV. Of course, we never see any of the fencing. BTW, China is doing quite well in fecning this year. :cool:

Vash

08-23-2004, 10:11 AM

That's what I heard. Also saw one of China's lifter's did really well.

GeneChing

08-25-2004, 10:15 AM

"Tonight is the greatest night in the history of American fencing."
Arkady Burdan, August 17, 2004

The USA has performed quite well at the Olympics this year. Here's another good fencing site (http://www.usfencing.org/)

Pork Chop

04-04-2006, 08:16 PM

Okay so i'm having a hard time dragging myself to the local boxing gym.
It's like 100 to join and 60 a month or something for a place that couldn't hold a candle to BXF and is only open 4 hours a day.
Not having any cashflow at the moment doesn't help either.

So i joined the work gym tonite. It's 3.80 a week, comes outta my paycheck. It's got really nice facilities, so i was planning on using it for fitness, and the boxing gym for boxing.

Turns out that there's a fencing club at the work gym. Fencing club costs 50 bux for a year or 30 bux for 6 months. The teacher's the wiley old french dude, i think his name's Nouvet or something.

Soooo.... do i become a swash buckler?

SanHeChuan

04-04-2006, 08:34 PM

cool, there was a fencing club at my college. I don't know why i never started up with them, i think it was schedualing problem.

I'm a little jelous i always figured fencing was the only sport i could get to the olympics in. An odd intution to have given i've never actual done any fencing. :D

"wiley old french dude", one of the few times when it's not so bad to be french;)

Pork Chop

04-04-2006, 09:06 PM

SanHeChuan

We went to the same college and have the same feelings about the same fencing club. :) I remember training with Ian as those guys were wrapping up. Yeah, I dunno why I never trained with 'em either; especially considering my biggest beef with Lubbock, the majority of the time i was there, was that I had no one to train anything with- Ian didn't show up until I was about to graduate.

I keep thinking about how the old bareknuckle boxers were also fencers (james figg) and how boxing was part of the cirriculum at fencing schools. Also, i think the fact that i'm right handed & right lead would be a big benefit.

Think i may give it a shot thursday. I'll be in touch if I do.

joedoe

04-04-2006, 09:58 PM

Give it a go. Fencing is a great workout, and I found it a lot of fun. Gene Ching is an accomplished fencer, so maybe he could put in a word or two.

Oso

04-05-2006, 05:40 AM

but be sure to post a pic of you in the whole white outfit. ;)

we had a dude show up here in town a couple of years ago and he actually stopped me at a gas station because of the school sign on my truck to give me a flier. no way I could work it in to my schedule either.

How did the move go?

GeneChing

04-05-2006, 10:01 AM

I fenced in high school and college but was a second placer at best. I did earn a Provost master degree, two in fact (for complicated political reasons) and was captain of the epee squad for our NCAA team, but wound up with one of the weakest competitive records on that team by the end of my lackluster competitive career. All that being said, I enjoyed fencing immensily and would probably still do it if I had the time. It's a great sport and gives you a very unique understanding of swordplay. I'd argue that it's because its one of the only sword sparring games that still use steel (kendo and escrima swap their steel for wood) and there's something called sentiment du fer or 'feel of the steel' that you just can't get anywhere else. Give it a go. It's the only way you'll find our for sure. And I always advocate cross training, even if it's just a nibble, just to see what's there.

There was a hilarious fencing thread on either the ORA or JKD forum - I just did a cursory search for it but couldn't find it. If I do, I'll add it here.

David Jamieson

04-05-2006, 10:38 AM

Im no provost master, but my riposté is admirable or so I've been told. :D

Fencing is a wonderful thing that will benefit your overall martial arts practices without a doubt.

Go for it.

Pork Chop

04-07-2006, 07:00 PM

Didn't make it last night.

having a hard time getting a schedule going here.
work is a lil longer than i'm used to- we work 9 days every 2 weeks at 9 hours a day for a total of 80 hours. Days go 10 hours if we take an hour lunch. At orientation we've been working with our new offices during lunch; but still working 10 hours.
I probably shoulda taken another week off before I started working. Basically been coming home from work, passing out, waking up, eat, and then try to go back to bed.
Still haven't unpacked much.
Today, my first off-friday, i spent the day paying bills and unpacking stuff.
Think I'm going to wait until I'm a little more adjusted to my schedule before I start stressing the workouts- which is bad coz i been packin on the weight.
No fridge at work, so it looks like doing nutrisystem for men is out the window.
Guess I'll just start eating salads at lunch?
Gotta do somethin.
So yeah, get my house in order, focus on the schedule, and then get in there on a regular basis.
Next week will be better.

3 Rotor

04-08-2006, 05:45 AM

What a deal. Definitely exploit this one.

The Xia

10-25-2006, 02:48 PM

Bruce Lee borrowed fencing concepts to enhance his hand-to-hand skills. What are some of your opinions of fencing?

FuXnDajenariht

10-25-2006, 02:52 PM

there are many different types of fencing. but its all good. i like the energy in kendo personally.

golden arhat

10-25-2006, 03:08 PM

bruce would say
it worked for me but it might not work for you
true to jkd the perfect form of self defence is different for each person

i think fencing type training should be done with weapons like the straightsword
people always just seem to do the jian form as opposed to properly training with a weapon
i think this applies to most cma weaponry

cjurakpt

10-25-2006, 03:14 PM

put a gim / jian in the hands of your average college level epee fencer and he / she would dissassemble the vast majority of "advanced" TCMA gim / jian practitioners...

while western fencing has "lost" a lot of its combat oriented aspects (e.g. - second hand striking, grabbing, grappling, sweeping), the efficiency of line and angle that it developed persists in the sporting aspect (in fact, m taiji sfu has had some of his students go study western fencing in conjunction with their taiji sword studies)

in high school, I was lucky enough to train in saber with one of my father's friends from the "old country", a former Hungarian National / Olympic champion by the name of Laszlo Pongo - the guy was in his 60's at the time, and would whoop the crapola out of guys decades younger than him (me included)

golden arhat

10-25-2006, 03:17 PM

i want to train in fencing and the jian then if i ever teach i can teach to fight with the jian not just dance with it

The Xia

10-25-2006, 03:22 PM

It's interesting to note that more realistic rules are becoming popular in fencing. In my opinion, realistic rule-set weapons sparring would be a great idea for both TCMA and Budo.

David Jamieson

10-25-2006, 03:28 PM

i was an avid fencer at one time. it is a lot of fun.

TenTigers

10-25-2006, 03:43 PM

I fenced epee,foil, and saber in High School. I was small and the saber guys were big, and I would go home with welts on my arms and back from them. It's alot of fun. My daughters fenced varsity, until their coach left, and the new coach just made it a bad experience for them. Too bad. Fencing is fun, and if you are good, you can carve out a niche for yourself-if you are in High School. Most Ivy League colleges have a fencing team-which means scholarships.

cjurakpt

10-25-2006, 04:21 PM

Fencing is fun, and if you are good, you can carve out a niche for yourself-if you are in High School. Most Ivy League colleges have a fencing team-which means scholarships.

spot on - and it's not just ivy league either: U Penn for example has a monster fencing program (I think they were Division 1 champs or some such for a good number of years) and aggressively recruits nationwide (learned about that a few years back at a PT seminar they hosted on site - amazing facilities these colleges out in the middle of nowhere have...)

The Xia

10-25-2006, 04:33 PM

Colleges and high schools are bastions of fencing in the US. There are some actual fencing schools though. Fencing gives you agility, speed, and wrist strength. These attributes definitely compliment TCMA.

cjurakpt,
This organization is dedicated to historical fencing.
http://www.ahfi.org/
This is their tournament rules.
http://www.ahfi.org/rules/

GeneChing

10-25-2006, 04:43 PM

Check out our old thread on Fencing on the JKD forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29082). It's very entertaining. ;) After this thread dies down here, I might merge it with that one.

sunfist

10-25-2006, 08:48 PM

Both fencing and learning how to fight with a sword are good. The degree of overlap between the two will vary.

KC Elbows

10-26-2006, 10:17 PM

This book is excellent, though rife with the chauvenism of his era, Nadi rocked:

http://www.ii.uib.no/~arild/fencing/book/OnFencing.html

Christopher M

10-27-2006, 12:47 AM

while western fencing has "lost" a lot of its combat oriented aspects

Well, this would be a distinct feature of modern fencing, as opposed to classical and historical fencing which are still practiced, though not as well known.

yenhoi

10-27-2006, 08:49 AM

Ahh... the fencing thread. Ask good questions and we will get good answeres here guys.

One of the tai chi guys i have trained with is also heavily into western fencing.

:cool:

The Willow Sword

10-27-2006, 01:29 PM

I used to compete on a statewide level in Fencing in Highschool. Did pretty well taking away the silver every time. I also competed in Kentucky once with soem great fencers at the time. My weapon in that area was epee'. i liked playing epee because everywhere was target area and you could fight in a circle pattern. Of course in tourneys it was the straight line fencing with all the electrical equipment hooked up to your back and foil.

Yeah i can pretty much agree that fencers have an edge on weekend sword players(unless of course they are kendo stylists and then we got some interesting methods of attack and defense) but pretty much the fencers are going to be very exact on pinpointing a target and going for it and not doing alot of broad moves thus leaving your chest open for a strike.

Peace,TWS

GeneChing

03-18-2009, 04:36 PM

Mostly I want to announce the opening of a new Fencing store that's run by a former teammate. Victory Fencing Gear (http://www.victoryfencinggear.com/) is in Millbrae, CA, just a block from Lily Lau's School and a few blocks from BART. Check it out if you get the chance. Tell 'em Gene sent you and that you want the swords that fold up so you can carry them in your briefcase. :p

GeneChing

05-13-2009, 11:33 AM

My good friend at Victory kicked down a huge favor to me so the least I can do in return is plug his store again. They're online store is up and running now.

Victory Fencing Gear (http://www.victoryfencinggear.com/)

GeneChing

11-08-2010, 11:02 AM

Joppich wins fourth foil world title (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2010-11-07-1962655452_x.htm)

PARIS (AP) — Peter Joppich of Germany won his fourth individual foil world title on Sunday, defeating Sheng Lei of China 15-11 in the final at the World Fencing Championships, and Gerek Meinhardt of the U.S. shared the bronze.

Joppich fell to his knees at Paris' Grand Palais after regaining the title he previously won in 2003, 2006 and 2007.

In the women's competition, Elisa Di Francesca won an all-Italian final to claim her first world title with a 15-11 win over Arianna Errigo.

Meinhardt tied for third with Yuki Ota of Japan. Meinhardt gave the United States its second medal after Mariel Zagunis retained her individual sabre world title Saturday on the opening day of competition.Meinhardt trains with some old teammates of mine.

sanjuro_ronin

11-08-2010, 11:10 AM

Sabre rocks !

sanjuro_ronin

11-08-2010, 11:43 AM

Well, it is sport and those aren't real blades, but the skill set is great.

GeneChing

11-10-2010, 06:09 PM

Just sharpen one. ;)

Check out this pic of the worlds from Victory Fencing's fb page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Victory-Fencing-Gear/89328373717).

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs971.snc4/76443_460862943717_89328373717_5369093_3930372_n.j pg

sanjuro_ronin

11-11-2010, 06:24 AM

David Jamieson

11-16-2010, 11:56 AM

Well, it is sport and those aren't real blades, but the skill set is great.

foil, epee and sabre are indeed real blades.

they are merely blunted and dulled for competition for obvious reasons. :)

but you can grind the flat steel tip off of an epee or foil and you have a fairly lethal thrusting weapon in both cases and a very painful steel whip as well.

The sabre is a sabre. just sharpen it. the steel is all quality though and it's hard to find crappy foils, epees or sabres.

I have a set of Paul's foils they are great! next year, i'm going to acquire a set of epees.

sabres I got covered with teh non sport variety. lol

sanjuro_ronin

11-16-2010, 12:04 PM

foil, epee and sabre are indeed real blades.

they are merely blunted and dulled for competition for obvious reasons. :)

but you can grind the flat steel tip off of an epee or foil and you have a fairly lethal thrusting weapon in both cases and a very painful steel whip as well.

The sabre is a sabre. just sharpen it. the steel is all quality though and it's hard to find crappy foils, epees or sabres.

I have a set of Paul's foils they are great! next year, i'm going to acquire a set of epees.

sabres I got covered with teh non sport variety. lol

Dude, they are not made of high tensile steel or anything like that, they are designed to give and flex, not to pierce and "run through".

TenTigers

11-16-2010, 01:32 PM

I have a set of Toledo foils, masks and vests, which were my students' grandfather's. They must be almost a hundred years old. The vests are quilted with a red leather heart sewn on them. The foils have leather handgrips. They should be in a museum or on display.
Of course, I had to fence with them....
I also polished off my late grandfathers' 1897 cognac-hand blown bottle..I made Brandy Alexandrs with them...

GeneChing

11-16-2010, 02:48 PM

sanjuro_ronin

11-17-2010, 07:00 AM

If a blade doesn't flex, it's too brittle and will snap. This is a great misconception about modern swords, as people don't hit them against each other anymore.

The modern epee and foil is just like the historic ones, save for the button. Back when I used to work at American Fencers, we sharpened epees and ran them through plywood. The saber is much skinnier, so it's not quite the same.

David Jamieson: It's actually pretty easy to find crappy blades. China-made fencing blades were notorious for a long time, but I've heard that they are much better now. There's no machine to temper blades - it's still all done by hand - so a veteran fencer will pick through the stacks to find good steel. By Paul, do you mean Leon Paul? I personally never cared for Leon Paul equipment. I always leaned to the German-made stuff like Uhlmann and Allstar. Mind you, I haven't fenced in years and the market has changed considerably.

I am aware that they have to flex, the degree of flex is still far more in a sport foil or epee than a "practical" rapier or straight sword.
Of course if you sharpen a foil or epee they can pierce, they are still tempered steel.
Take a practical rapier and dull it and put a "button" on it and try fencing with it, you will see the difference.
Far more ridgid and less forgiving.
I am not taking anything away from the danger of a foil or epee that has been modified to be practical, but that is NOT what we are talking about.
The fact that the blade GIVES as much as it does to NOT penetrate the chest guard is significant.

Lucas

11-17-2010, 09:20 AM

would those competition blades break or shatter if struck against a live combat blade?

sanjuro_ronin

11-17-2010, 12:01 PM

would those competition blades break or shatter if struck against a live combat blade?

A blade will shatter if hit incorrectly ( or correctly depending on your point of view).
The more flexable the LESS chance of breaking.

GeneChing

11-17-2010, 01:49 PM

Look at the 18th and 19th century foils and epees. The blades are not significantly different in terms of flexibility. I've seen colichemardes with more flex than some FIE foil blades. Foil and epee are point weapons, not necessarily edged, so you don't really parry in the same way. Blades do break in competition. That's actually the most dangerous part of the sport. But you wouldn't parry a 'live combat blade' in quite the same manner as it's point work, not edge work.

I studied with a pupil of Aldo Nadi, so yes, I've read On Fencing. In fact, the person responsible for the recent reprint of that work, Maestro William Gaugler, was my tutor for my provost d'armes exams.

Lucas

11-17-2010, 01:56 PM

man i should take up fencing, sounds like its a lot of fun.

what did you enjoy more kendo or fencing?

GeneChing

11-17-2010, 06:15 PM

I fenced a lot more. I was an NCAA athlete and earned a provost master diploma. It's not as martial. It's a sport. But it's a fun sport and the martial applications are so obvious.

I can't remember how far I got in kendo, only a few kyu in to it. But I loved that it was so martial. I dabbled in iaido and batto-jitsu too, as well as a little kobudo, which all complimented kendo so well.

This might sound odd, but even after training in dozens of kung fu weapons, if I really had to fight with a cold arm, I'd choose a sharpened epee if it was to be bloody, and a bokken (http://www.martialartsmart.com/40-03.html) if it was a less lethal situation.

sanjuro_ronin

11-18-2010, 06:35 AM

David Jamieson

11-18-2010, 01:53 PM

Gene, there will come a day when we shall meet on the piste! :p seriously.
I mean, if you want to and there are a couple of foils handy. :D

The thing that's cool about an epee is that it will penetrate just about anything.
It is of such a design that trench knives were fashioned using it's triangular blade shape.

this was because double edge couldn't always penetrate a thick wool trench coat, but a three sided blade to a point could easily penetrate the heavy trench coats.

here's a cool pic of one:
http://www.eucmh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Trench-Knife-M-1917-US.jpg

here's an epee:
http://www.balestrafencing.net/store/images/EPEE%20PSL%20GR.jpg

three sides goes through all hides. :D

Lucas

11-18-2010, 02:32 PM

ah i see. similar to some bayonet designs.

Lucas

11-18-2010, 03:48 PM

Lucas

11-18-2010, 03:50 PM

David Jamieson

11-18-2010, 05:06 PM

i guess maybe scratch that I found a source:
http://www.oregonfencing.com/

looks like mostly for children as far as their scheduling, and the adult classes are kind of out there. im going to keep looking for something in the city itself....has to be something.

http://usfencing.org/oregon-clubs

here's a couple more.

if you go olympic it is still great sport but the electronic point system truly effects the style.

If you learn a more traditional way, you will likely get exposed to more actual practical use of the blade, but you never know, it's up to you and I'm pretty sure that olympic style coaches know the traditional ways.

there is also non-linear schools, such as spanish school or portugese style which do not use piste and are far more free in what you can do. Even to the point of using dagger and rapier together, which I gotta say, is hella cool. :)

I can't help you in sourcing anything reliable in that area though. :(

Lucas

11-18-2010, 05:39 PM

dude that sounds awesome!!! definately going to have to look into that. I would be more interested in more practical use, but any style training would be good at the beginner stage I'm sure.

thanks for that resource site though, looks pretty helpful. a few of those sites look somewhat close to me.

dude as i was typing this a client came in and i happend to mention to my co worker the studio of american fencing in town and the client says ' i helped found that, i wrote their 501 c3' i was like HELL YA this was meant to be.

thanks for the hook up bro

GeneChing

11-19-2010, 10:29 AM

I prefer to meet over beer and nachos, but whatev. In all honestly, DJ, I haven't fenced in years. And I wasn't much of a foil man. Being a chronic counterattacker, I never quite got the hang of right-of-way. I understand it theoretically, but when pressed, I'll usually counterattack instead of parry-riposte, and any foil player worth his or her salt can capitalize upon that foible. I thought I was going to be into saber, but all the dao (http://www.martialartsmart.com/weapons-chinese-weapons-broadswords.html) & kendo (http://www.martialartsmart.com/samurai-kendo-styles.html) training made me too heavy-handed, and that also has right-of-way. It was all about epee for me.

Lucas, when you start, be sure to get your gear at Victory Fencing Gear. (http://www.victoryfencinggear.com/)Ask for Maestro Harkness. Tell him you want a foil with a square ninja guard. This will probably be followed by an icy silence. Then tell him I sent you and he'll take good care of you.

sanjuro_ronin

11-19-2010, 10:49 AM

When I was at the University of Toronto I used to train with the UofT guys, just for fun mind you.
Very few sports develop the skillset that fencing does.

Lucas

11-19-2010, 11:55 AM

lol will do gene. just out of curiosity, did he provide the square ninja guard foil for you? cuz that would be dope.

pazman

05-01-2014, 08:00 PM

3 vs 50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgKg0Hc7YIA

Really impressive, even if it's a little contrived.

MasterKiller

05-02-2014, 08:41 AM

http://youtu.be/PgKg0Hc7YIA

GeneChing

05-02-2014, 08:49 AM

1 point to pazman for being first and posting on this OT thread.
1 point to MK for knowing how to embed a vid.

Tie score. In fencing, we call that la belle. :p

pazman

05-03-2014, 08:43 AM

For normal fencing matches its difficult for me to how much skills goes into it when the two people are evenly matched.

This video its very easy to see just how much better the experts are over a crowd of less skilled opponents.

GeneChing

10-17-2014, 10:40 AM

I wish I had planned my weekend better and could attend this. Alexander Massialas is the son of Greg Massialas, one of my former NCAA teammates. Actually, he was on the SJSU team a few years prior to me, but he'd come by every once in a while and whup all our butts, just to show us who's still boss. I've not spoken with Greg in years so he probably doesn't remember me (I was an epeeist, not a foilist) and I've never met Alexander.

Men’s Foil World Cup Comes to San Francisco This Weekend (http://www.usfencing.org/news_article/show/436721?referrer_id=669372)

(San Francisco, Calif.) – The 2014-15 Senior World Cup season kick off this weekend with the San Francisco Men’s Foil World Cup at Kezar Pavilion.

Nearly 200 of the world’s best foil fencers from more than 35 nations will compete in the three-day tournament that begins on Friday and concludes on Sunday.

Preliminary individual competition will take place on Friday and will be followed by direct elimination and final round action for the top 64 fencers on Saturday. The semifinal and final rounds will take place at 6:30 p.m. on Saturday night. Team competition will take place on Sunday.

Click here (http://www.usfencing.org/sfomfwc?id=1302402-schedule-and-tournament-files) for the complete schedule.

Tickets start at $20 per session. Click the following links to purchase:

Individual Tickets
Two-Day Pass
Three-Day Pass
Three-Day VIP Pass

The U.S. delegation will feature approximately 30 fencers, including all four members of the squad that placed fourth at the 2012 Olympic Games and won silver at the 2013 Senior World Championships.

For San Francisco natives Gerek Meinhardt and Alexander Massialas, the World Cup will be a rare opportunity to fence in front of a home crowd as U.S. athletes travel to an average of 10 countries each year.

Both Meinhardt, a two-time Olympian who won bronze at the 2010 Senior World Championships, and Massialas, his London Olympic teammate, grew up fencing in San Francisco and competed in regional events at the historic Kezar Pavilion during their youth fencing days.

A graduate student at Notre Dame, Meinhardt is now ranked No. 4 in the world after winning two individual medals on the World Cup circuit last season. Ranked seventh in the world, Massialas is a junior at Stanford who also won two individual World Cup medals this year and placed second behind Meinhardt at the Pan American Championships in June.

Meinhardt and Massialas’s teammates, 2012 Olympians Race Imboden (Brooklyn, N.Y.) and Miles Chamley-Watson (New York City, N.Y.), will be among the top candidates for podium finishes in San Francisco.

Ranked 10th in the world, Imboden finished third at the 2014 Tokyo Grand Prix as part of a 1-2-3 U.S. finish with Meinhardt and Massialas and won the silver medal at the Seoul World Cup in May.

Chamley-Watson made history in 2013 as the first U.S. man to win an individual Senior World Championship title in fencing and took silver that same year with Meinhardt, Massialas and Imboden in the team event.

In the team event, the Americans were ranked No. 1 in the world earlier this year and are hoping to build on a season that included three podium appearances last spring.

The international field features the top foil fencers in the world, including:

2014 Senior World Individual Champion Alexey Cheremisinov (RUS)
2013 Senior World Individual Champion Miles Chamley-Watson (New York City, N.Y.)
2012 Olympic Individual Champion Sheng Lei (CHN)
2014 Senior World Team Champions Enzo Lefort (FRA), Erwann Le Pechoux (FRA), Julien Mertine (FRA) and Vincent Simon (FRA)
2013 Senior World and 2012 Olympic Champions Giorgio Avola (ITA), Andrea Baldini (ITA) and Andrea Cassara (ITA)

Click here to view the entrants list.

Team USA’s entrant list is as follows (Note: additional athletes may be added on Thursday afternoon to complete pools):

San Francisco Men’s Foil World Cup U.S. Entrants

Aaron Ahn (Los Angeles, Calif.)
Aiden Ahn (Los Angeles, Calif.)
Max Blitzer (Staten Island, N.Y.)
Matthew Branman (Villanova, Pa.)
Nobuo Bravo (San Francisco, Calif.)
Turner Caldwell (San Francisco, Calif.)
Miles Chamley-Watson (New York City, N.Y.)
Jerry Chang (Mountain View, Calif.)
Raymond Chen (Dallas, Texas)
Kurt Getz (New York City, N.Y.)
Jarred Gou (Saratoga, Calif.)
David Hadler (San Francisco, Calif.)
George Haglund (Califon, N.J.)
Brian Howard (Petaluma, Calif.)
Race Imboden (Brooklyn, N.Y.)
Brian Kaneshige (Maplewood, N.J.)
Axel Kiefer (Lexington, Ky.)
Julian Knodt (Palo Alto, Calif.)
Sidarth Kumbla (San Jose, Calif.)
Michael Li (Palo Alto, Calif.)
Jan Maceczek (Marlboro, N.J.)
Stephen Mageras (Darien, Conn.)
Alexander Massialas (San Francisco, Calif.)
Adam Mathieu (Union City, N.Y.)
Darren Mei (Redwood City, Calif.)
Gerek Meinhardt (San Francisco, Calif.)
Samuel Moelis (Hewlett, N.Y.)
Lucas Orts (Burlingame, Calif.)
James Sands (New York, N.Y.)
Nolen Scruggs (Ozone Park, N.Y.)
Geoffrey Tourette (Cupertino, Calif.)
William Upbin (Brooklyn, N.Y.)
David Willette (Lafayette, Calif.)
Michael Woo (Wayne, N.J.)

GeneChing

10-29-2014, 03:04 PM

Tragic story.

Kamara James Dies At 29: ‘Mental Illness’ Was Her ‘Most Unrelenting Adversary’ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1542076/kamara-james-dies-at-29/)

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Kamara-James-645x385.jpg

Olympic fencer Kamara James has died at the age of 29, according to a report released by The Grio.

According to the report, the former Team USA Olympic athlete passed away in Modesto, California. A story from the Modesto Bee reveals her death was reported on September 20.

Don Anthony, president of USA Fencing, released a statement on the organization’s official website in response to the confirmed announcement of her death.

“Kamara James was one of the brightest, precocious, self-assured young people I ever met. From her time as a very young fencer at the Peter Westbrook Foundation to her years at Princeton as an accomplished Olympian she remained warm, caring and confident. Kamara’s untimely passing leaves our fencing community very saddened and her spirit, charm and wit will be dearly missed.”

As of right now, it is still not clear as to how Kamara James died. However, a report released by Eric Rosenberg with Fencing.net confirmed that Kamara battled with “mental illness” as her “most unrelenting adversary.”

“Unfortunately, mental illness proved Kamara’s most unrelenting adversary. Still, just prior to her death, she had resumed a stable drug regimen, was living comfortably and had begun thinking about the future.”

At the young age of 19, Kamara James was a member of Team USA at the 2004 Olympic Games. James was the only women’s epee fencer from the United States that qualified for the event.

Born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica, Kamara James moved with her family to Queens, NY at the age of 10. Even with such a difficult transition at such a young age, James thrived academically in school – receiving a full scholarship to The Dwight School. Her high grades and SAT scores also earned Kamara a scholarship to attend Princeton University.

Even though she did not have the financial backing and support of many of her Olympic competitors when it came to training for the Games, Kamara James did not allow that to stop her from reaching her goal of competing. According to USA Fencing, James developed a business plan and generated over $50,000 in donations that allowed her to turn her dream into a reality.

Keeth Smart, 2009 Olympic silver medalist, competed against Kamara James in Athens but also trained alongside her for more than ten years when they studied together at the Peter Westbrook Foundation. In a recent statement, Keeth stated that Kamara James was “one of the smartest people” he knew, especially when it came to developing that business plan.

“She was really grounded in terms of knowing how to take the steps she would need to reach any goal… Bar none, Kamara was one of the smartest people I’ve ever come across. Sometimes the strongest and fastest win, but to have a great career in fencing, you have to be one of the smartest and she definitely was it.”

As of now, no announcement has been made in regards to a memorial service for Kamara James.

Vajramusti

10-29-2014, 03:34 PM

Tragic story.

That is sad.

mawali

11-01-2014, 12:21 PM

Fencing, once a martial enterprise, is now a martial sport.
I once met the great Peter Westbrook many years ago and a link below showcases his teaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTbe3XWYWS8

GeneChing

11-13-2015, 04:28 PM

https://vimeo.com/145572923

Oso

11-13-2015, 06:10 PM

Nice. I've actually thought about this sport...I 'retired' from MA in 2009 due to shoulders and hips degrading at a quick pace, and now the broken ankle from my sojourn in Hawaii...but, I think I might be able to fence...prolly have to unlearn a lot of 'bad' habits that wouldn't be applicable to the venue but that could be fun too.

boxerbilly

11-14-2015, 07:55 AM

Gene, you made outstanding and brilliant comments in this thread in regards to old and new in respect to Western arts. Then crossing over relation into traditional Asian arts. Great stuff.

Thanks.

Oso

11-14-2015, 01:05 PM

you can't tell Gene stuff like that, man...it just goes to his head ;)

GeneChing

03-24-2016, 09:29 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leOP7rWwBpw

GeneChing

03-28-2016, 11:11 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P-rCvFheA8

I have a cameo in this at 5:42 :cool:

sanjuro_ronin

03-28-2016, 12:56 PM

Who is that young and dashing swordsman?
:D

Lucas

03-28-2016, 06:26 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leOP7rWwBpw

Wow that's really cool!

GeneChing

04-06-2016, 04:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdlhfMiWVV0

-N-

04-07-2016, 06:13 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdlhfMiWVV0

They need to program the AI so it can learn to avoid not just by retreating.

David Jamieson

04-11-2016, 08:22 AM

I've recently replenished my gear and am getting back into fencing.
French foil for a while, then move up to epee and saber.

I think it's one of the best ways to teach live sword play.
And so, it shall be done. :)

GeneChing

08-19-2016, 08:16 AM

This is terrible. Matt was the shop manager at American Fencers/The Armoury when I worked there as a swordmaker in the late 80s/early 90s. He was a good manager - we got it done. I haven't seen him in years, but heard about him through old fencing ties and was following his facebook posts from Rio with great interest and pride.

Member of Olympic fencing team loses new home in Clayton Fire (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Member-of-Olympic-fencing-team-loses-new-home-in-9171784.php#photo-10796265)
By Kurtis Alexander Updated 8:27 pm, Thursday, August 18, 2016

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/51/13/63/10796265/12/920x920.jpg
Matthew Porter (center), the armorer of the U.S. Olympic Fencing Team, lost his home in Lake County’s Clayton Fire.

It was the last thing anyone at the Rio Olympics would expect to hear after an exuberant string of medal wins: that a catastrophic wildfire was racing toward his home.
But that’s the unfortunate news Matthew Porter, armorer for the U.S. Olympics fencing team, received over the weekend from his wife. The couple live in Northern California’s fire-ravaged hills, and their house in Lower Lake was in the path of Lake County’s devastating Clayton Fire.
Porter’s wife, Karen, was forced to flee with only the clothes she was wearing, their two long-haired Chihuahuas, Tucker and Fidget, and a stray cat. All else was likely lost, she told her husband in an email and follow-up phone call to Rio de Janeiro.
“What a way to finish there,” Porter, 59, said in an interview with The Chronicle on Thursday, having returned to California early. “Not really what I wanted, but my active job had been over at that point.”
Porter’s responsibility at the Games was to take care of the weaponry for the 17 American fencers who walked away with two silver medals and two bronze medals.
After landing at San Francisco International Airport late Tuesday, Porter greeted his wife and rushed to Lower Lake, about 100 miles north of the city. Although their neighborhood was off-limits because the fire was still burning, a law-enforcement officer confirmed what the Porters suspected: There was nothing left.
The two bought their property east of Lower Lake’s historic downtown only three months ago, shortly before Porter left with the fencing team for Brazil. The couple had just finished moving their personal belongings as well as their online fencing supply business from Pacifica.
“We loved it there,” Porter said. “We had gotten things fixed the way we wanted. It took every last penny to do it.”
Making matters worse, the Porters, who bought their house in cash, hadn’t yet obtained fire insurance, they said. But on Thursday, as the couple drove to pick up their pets from friends in the Bay Area, they said by phone they were just happy that neither they nor the animals were hurt.
“My No. 1 concern was Karen, and whether she’d be able to get out,” Porter said. “That is the most important thing.”
The two plan to stay with a friend near Lake Berryessa while they figure out their future.
“I’m still in shock,” Karen Porter said. “It’s still hard to believe that everything’s gone.”
The Clayton Fire is believed to be the work of a 40-year-old man, who has been charged with a string of felonies and has been accused of being a serial arsonist. The blaze has destroyed an estimated 268 structures since it began Saturday, the last day the U.S. fencing team was competing in the Rio Olympics.
Among the fencing medalists was Ibtihaj Muhammad, the first American woman to wear a hijab at the Games. She was part of the women’s saber team that won bronze.
As grim as Porter’s situation may be now, he said it doesn’t detract from the thrill of being among the fencing team’s dozen or so coaches and support staff. This is Porter’s third time at the Olympics.
“Matthew made sure our weapons were in absolutely top shape and was critical in making sure that we did not miss a single point due to our equipment,” said Greg Massialas, head coach of the U.S. Olympic men’s foil team, in a prepared statement. “It is a shame that after he spent so much of his time making sure Team USA had the opportunities for success, he lost everything.”

Kurtis Alexander is a San Francisco Chronicle staff writer. Email: kalexander@sfchronicle.com Twitter: @kurtisalexander

How to help
Friends of the Porters have launched a fundraising campaign for the couple at https://www.gofundme.com/2kg64t5p

This is my third friend that has lost their home to a California wildfire in the last year or so. :(

GeneChing

06-22-2017, 07:47 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0jG3QWW4yE

The Fencer (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70328-The-Fencer) looks intriguing. It's been a while since we've had a decent fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing) film.

GeneChing

11-29-2017, 10:28 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=OSl8ZOf0iEo

A robot (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?26024-martial-arts-robot) that can fence (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing).

GeneChing

11-29-2017, 10:31 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=kKKQQUMBqts

A robot (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?26024-martial-arts-robot) that can fence (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing) II

GeneChing

01-25-2018, 10:00 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=AsTp4QyHK_o

Thread: Kendo (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?50231-Kendo)
Thread: Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

03-12-2018, 01:11 PM

She was Gay D'Asaro when I knew her. She coached me a little back when I was with the SJSU team.

Spartan Women in Sport: Gay MacLellan, ’83 MA Kinesiology (http://blogs.sjsu.edu/wsq/2018/03/06/spartan-women-in-sport-gay-maclellan-83-ma-kinesiology-fencer-2/)
By Julia Halprin Jackson

http://blogs.sjsu.edu/wsq/files/2018/03/030718_WSQ_Blog_gay_1-2iv313m.jpg
Photo: Courtesy of West Coast Fencing Archive

http://blogs.sjsu.edu/wsq/files/2018/03/030718_WSQ_Blog_MikeGay_IMG_2-1gdlz8a.jpg
Photo: Courtesy of West Coast Fencing Archive

http://blogs.sjsu.edu/wsq/files/2018/03/030718_WSQ_Blog_International_IMG_1-ptduc9.jpg
Photo: Courtesy of West Coast Fencing Archive

http://blogs.sjsu.edu/wsq/files/2018/03/030718_WSQ_Blog_OlympicTeamGay_IMG_1-17i2uax.jpg
Photo: Courtesy of West Coast Fencing Archive

As a child, Gay MacLellan says she loved to move. She played tetherball and four square at recess at her elementary school in the tiny central California town of Ripon, where she was spotted by a teacher who coached fencing. As a shy 11-year-old girl, she was surprised to find that the strategy and technique of the sport attracted her, with its balletic and sometimes aggressive movements. Within a year, she was competing with the foil—the only fencing weapon that women and girls were allowed to use in competition until 2004, while men were using foil, epee and saber. Decades later, she still remembers the sport’s appeal.

“There’s the beauty of the movement,” says MacLellan, ’83 MA Kinesiology. “You’re a warrior if you fence. The history of fencing is so incredible—it goes way back to when there weren’t guns. Swords were used to settle arguments. I was a shy girl, and it was so unique. It gave me something to talk about with people. As I grew up, I realized how lucky I was to have this avenue to travel the world and get the most incredible education, seeing different cultures. It gave me a career.”

Starting when she was 14, she began training with Michael D’Asaro, a Pan American, U.S. and World Military Saber Champion, and member of the 1960 Olympic fencing team. D’Asaro’s club was located in San Francisco, which meant that MacLellan’s parents had to drive her 90 minutes each way to train every week. Between practice and weekend competitions, MacLellan cultivated a unique fencing style that soon became her trademark.

“I was a skilled technician,” she says. “I learned the movements as perfectly as I could and that’s what served me. Michael trained me to be fast. I perfected that and it took me to the Olympics twice.”

MacLellan fenced for two years at UC Santa Barbara before following her coach to San Jose State in 1974, where he had been hired to coach the women’s and men’s teams. Drawn together by a shared love of sport and drive to compete, the two fell in love and later married.

At SJSU, MacLellan trained with champion fencers Stacey Johnson, ’80 Public Relations, and Vincent “Vinnie” Bradford. The landmark legislation Title IX had passed in 1972, setting a standard of gender equity in sport that the women’s athletics director helped reinforce.

“The women’s athletics department had a very strong athletics director named Joyce Malone,” MacLellan remembers. “She really fought for women and got pretty good equality for us. As our coach, Michael was always a strong supporter of women. We had so much support, the women at San Jose State.”

That support was essential when it came time to compete. MacLellan split her focus between fencing and academics, building her strength, running for speed and endurance, traveling regularly for tournaments. Her hard work brought serious results, including winning the U.S. Women’s Foil Championships in 1974 and 1978—and earning a spot on the Olympic fencing team at 1976 games in Montreal.

“I don’t even remember touching the ground with my feet,” she says. “I was just so amazed at everything. I was pleased with my performance, winning more than I lost. But it was my first major international competition, so I was just overwhelmed. It blew me away.”

MacLellan and her teammate Stacey Johnson qualified for the 1980 Olympics in Moscow, but were unable to compete because the U.S. boycotted the Games. It was a complicated time. As thrilling as it was to make the team, the fact that they couldn’t actually participate affected the fencers. MacLellan retired from competition that same year, switching her focus to teaching fencing, dance aerobics and body mechanics in SJSU’s physical education department. In 1983, she completed her master’s thesis, “A History of the Amateur Fencers League of America,” the governing body that predated the United States Fencing Association.

By studying the history of the sport and the way it had been governed, MacLellan gained perspective on how it might evolve. She stayed active in the sport by refereeing around the U.S., as well as worldwide. Though she and D’Asaro eventually divorced, she remained very active in the fencing community.

“At the time, there weren’t many woman referees, and internationally there were none,” she says. “I was one of the first U.S. women to get an international referee license.”

Unlike competing, which emphasized her individual performance, as a referee MacLellan had to confront stereotypes about women in sport, which she found frustrating. As a national champion, Olympian and unofficial historian of the sport, she grew tired of hearing others question her qualifications.

“International refereeing did get hard,” she says. “Many people did not feel that women were capable of being good referees. I didn’t want to fight that battle internationally. I had already fought that battle in the U.S. I think I was scrutinized a lot more than men were, in what kinds of calls they were making. I had to try to be as perfect as possible to prove that I, as a woman, was capable of being a referee.”

Photo: Courtesy of West Coast Fencing Archive

Despite this, MacLellan was always grateful for the opportunities that the sport afforded her. Not only did she create a career out of competing, teaching and refereeing, she gained confidence, composure and independence that has served her in her life beyond fencing.

“Starting sports as a girl was so helpful in my growth,” she says. “It taught me that I could take care of myself physically. I really felt that if I was going to be attacked, I could handle it. The travel I did as a young girl and teenager, and then in my 20s, was so educational in training me to be independent. I always encourage young girls to get involved in sports early.”

A 2004 inductee into the U.S. Fencing Association’s Hall of Fame and an inductee into SJSU’s Sports Hall of Fame, MacLellan now splits her time between southern Oregon and Vancouver, Washington. It has been years since she has donned her mask, jacket, gloves, knickers, socks and protective gear. She has since found new ways to apply her skills, such as ballroom dancing. Understanding how to approach, assess and react to another person has carried over to every other aspect of her life. She is proud to belong to a tradition of high-achieving woman athletes and has seen the impact that positive role models can have, not only on athletes, but anyone who watches competitive sports.

“To see women perform at high levels, and to hear those women speak and present themselves, I think changes a lot of people’s opinions and outlook on women,” she says. “Sport shows women as confident, strong and capable of accomplishing high goals. In that sense, I really think it does help social change.”

GeneChing

03-15-2018, 09:53 AM

My good friend Greg Lynch Jr. is working on his second full length documentary - STRO - which is about my former fencing coach, the late great Maestro Michael D'Asaro. Greg heads Bad Ass Bunny Productions (http://www.badassbunnyproductions.com) and has produced many of the videos on our YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/KungfuMagazinedotcom). His previous documentary is also on a famous fencing master, the late great Maestro George Pillar, the award-winning doc The Last Captain (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70426-The-Last-Captain).

Greg made this little vid last month, just for fun, for the many fencing notables that he has interviewed for STRO. While I'm not a notable fencer by any stretch of the imagination, I do hold a Provost Masters degree in fencing and so he interviewed me too, for contrast perhaps.I appear in this at 17 sec, but it's super quick. ;) If you know the world of fencing, there are some really famous fencers and masters appearing in this, and I'm really honored to stand among them, and excited to see my old Master showcased in this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIvkKIXxHaA

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

07-02-2018, 09:33 AM

This is really the fault of the TCM doctor. That's so sloppy and it almost cost Lin the medal. What an ignorant TCM doc.

Hong Kong fencer Coco Lin apologises after traditional Chinese medicine nearly ruins her Asian Games dream (http://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/2152094/hong-kong-fencer-coco-lin-apologises-after-traditional-chinese?edition=international)
The 23-year-old receives only a reprimand despite a positive test as Hong Kong take silver in the women’s épée at the Asian Championships
PUBLISHED : Friday, 22 June, 2018, 8:20pm
UPDATED : Friday, 22 June, 2018, 10:47pm
Chan Kin-wa

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2018/06/22/208075c4-7615-11e8-aa4d-d2a0e82fc143_1280x720_202043.png?itok=BEGYIksy

Upcoming fencer Coco Lin Yik-hei has apologised after a doping incident almost ruined her dream of competing in the Asian Games in Indonesia this summer.

Lin was part of the Hong Kong women’s team that took silver after losing a nail-biter to China 35-34 in the final of the women’s épée at the Asian Fencing Championships in Bangkok on Friday night.

After spraining her right ankle in April, Lin enlisted the services of a bonesetter to accelerate her recovery, a move that proved more negative than positive.

Lin was given traditional Chinese medication by the bonesetter and a doping test two days later turned up a banned substance.

The 23-year-old, a scholarship athlete at the Sports Institute where fencing is a tier A programme, posted on social media this week that she had been temporarily suspended for two weeks by the Hong Kong Anti-Doping Committee leading up to the tournament in Bangkok.

Her name was also removed from the 2018 Asian Games squad after the Hong Kong Fencing Association had confirmed the list.

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/06/22/ac2c98b8-75d0-11e8-aa4d-d2a0e82fc143_1320x770_202043.jpg
Chu Ka-mong (left), Kaylin Hsieh, Vivian Kong and Coco Lin. Photo: Handout

She was asked to provide an adequate explanation or face a two-year suspension when she was informed of the test results early this month.

After a hearing, Lin received only a reprimand allowing her to compete in this week’s regional championships.

“I am a professional athlete and must take responsibility for the drugs I have taken,” Lin said. “It’s my own negligence that has affected not only my career but also the image of Hong Kong athletes.

“I have grown up quite a bit the past month, learnt to take the greatest caution with all medications that I put inside my body, and to stay strong in difficult situations.

“Thank you for all the love, care and support over the past two weeks from the fencing association, sports institute, my family, friends, teammates, coaches and the media. I’m deeply sorry for all the confusion caused for all parties at such a critical moment.”

The Hong Kong women’s épée team also features Vivian Kong Man-wai, the individual champion in Bangkok, and bronze medallist Kaylin Hsieh Sin-yan, who knocked Lin out of the competition in the quarter-finals. Lin’s top-eight result was her best finish in five appearances at the Asian Championships.

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/06/22/7ca99706-7613-11e8-aa4d-d2a0e82fc143_1320x770_202043.JPG
Cheung Siu-lun (right) on the attack against Ryan Choi at the President’s Cup in Hong Kong. Photo: Jonathan Wong

Friday night’s result was Hong Kong’s second silver of the week after the men’s foil team lost to South Korea in the final.

But gold medals from Cheung Siu-lun and Kong, in the men’s individual foil and women’s individual épée, respectively, ensured Hong Kong’s best result in the regional event and gave them a strong boost before the Asian Games this summer.

Why is the Asian fencing champion missing the Asian Games? Hongkonger only has himself to blame

The women’s team’s épée silver was also their best performance in the event, with Hong Kong taking bronze in every tournament since 2001.

Kong, the individual champion, was in superb form and matched the class of her mainland counterparts, with China headed by Olympic bronze medallist and world number two Sun Yiwen.

China went in as favourites and were in control of the game until Hsieh closed the gap to 29-27 in the second last session.

Kong gave her all in the final three-minute session but her opponent managed to hold on for a tight victory.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: Fencer Lin apologises for doping incident

THREADS:
TCM Fails (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69777-TCM-Fails)
Asian Games (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?58907-Asian-Games)
[URL="http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing"Fencing[/URL]

GeneChing

07-13-2018, 12:44 PM

http://cdn.chinarun.com/upload/site/1158/img/art/20180208/6365371486391946592577324.png?_t_=1518118063

Official website (http://www.wuxifencing2018.cn/en/)

GeneChing

08-24-2018, 03:47 AM

Asian Games: Hong Kong fencer proposes to girlfriend after winning bronze; teammate cries after messing up the music
(https://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/2161107/asian-games-hong-kong-fencer-proposes-girlfriend-after-winning)

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2018/08/24/1ae229f0-a770-11e8-851a-8c4276191601_1280x720_154127.jpg?itok=3ZL_3YTC
The 31-year-old gets down on his knees at the Jakarta Convention Centre in front of media and fans and Nicole says ‘yes’

PUBLISHED : Friday, 24 August, 2018, 9:52am
UPDATED : Friday, 24 August, 2018, 3:41pm
Nazvi Careem

He may have won bronze on the piste but there was gold in love for Hong Kong fencer Antonio Lam Hin-chung when he got down on bended knee and proposed to his girlfriend, Nicole, in front of delighted media, officials and fans in Jakarta.

Asian Games volunteers helped the 31-year-old Lam collect 99 roses that they made into a bouquet and as soon as the medal ceremony for the men’s team sabre competition ended, Lam proposed to Nicole – who had flown to Jakarta to watch her boyfriend of eight years compete.

Of course, she said “yes” and Lam is now looking forward to the next phase in his life.

“I am now double happy,” said Lam, who is expected to retire from competing and take up coaching. “There are many coaches in fencing but there are also many high-level athletes and I want to stay in the sport and help develop more fencers in Hong Kong.”

Nicole said she knew she would be marrying a man who is dedicated to his sport and respects whatever decision he makes.

“I know he can’t be separated from fencing and I know he wants to teach future fencers so I will support him.”

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/08/24/bb705548-a74a-11e8-851a-8c4276191601_1320x770_154127.jpg
Terence Lee crying and being consoled by a teammate. Photo: handout

While there may have been tears of joy for the couple and possibly those watching, there were tears of another kind from Lam’s teammate Terence Lee Chak-fung, who was supposed to cue the love song A Little Happiness (“Little Lucky”) by Taiwanese singer Hebe Tian to create an appropriate atmosphere at the Jakarta Convention Centre.

Apparently, Lee was a bit hasty and started the music early, spoiling the moment. He found it difficult to forgive himself and burst into tears as the couple posed for pictures.

Chinese media showed Lam and Nicole sharing a kiss with Lee inconsolable just behind them clutching his Asian Games stuffed mascot.

“I really messed it up because I put the music on too early. I had one thing to do and couldn’t do that properly,” Lee was quoted as saying.

Lam started fencing in 2000 after being encouraged by his father. At the 2014 Incheon Games, he became the first Hong Kong fencer to win a medal in the men’s individual sabre when he took bronze.

His sister, Lam Hin-wai, also represented Hong Kong in Incheon, winning a bronze in the women’s team sabre competition. She is part of the 2018 Asian Games team as well.

Lam is a Hong Kong Sports Institute athlete and also manages a fencing hall.

THREADS: Asian Games (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?58907-Asian-Games) & Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

09-04-2018, 03:14 PM

https://i.vimeocdn.com/vod_poster/228475_550x814.jpg

The Last Captain (https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thelastcaptain)
from The Last Captain PRO on September 4, 2018

Genres: Documentary, Sports
Duration: 1 hour 33 minutes
Availability: Worldwide
George Piller was the top rated saber fencer of his time. He won world championships and gold medals at the Olympics. After he retired, he became one of the best fencing coaches in the world. His Hungarian saber teams were unbeaten for decades.

Eventually, Piller came up against an opponent even too strong for him to defeat. In 1956, the USSR invaded Hungary to crush the Hungarian Uprising. Rather than submit, Piller escaped to the United States. He resumed his coaching career in San Francisco and started a revolution of his own in the United States fencing community.

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GeneChing

09-14-2018, 08:49 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQksM3I719o

THREADS
The Last Captain (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70426-The-Last-Captain)
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GeneChing

09-14-2018, 08:49 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQksM3I719o

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thelastcaptain

THREADS
The Last Captain (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70426-The-Last-Captain)
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GeneChing

10-03-2018, 01:44 PM

George Kolombatovich, Fencing Coach at Columbia and the Met, Dies at 72 (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/obituaries/george-kolombatovich-fencing-coach-dies-at-72.html)

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/10/01/obituaries/01KOLOMBATOVICH-OBIT/merlin_144424281_3829df28-0d50-4d88-a7a9-e4028104486b-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
George Kolombatovich in 1984. He spent 32 years as the head coach or co-head coach of the Columbia University fencing team.CreditCreditLarry C. Morris/The New York Times

By Richard Sandomir
Sept. 30, 2018

George Kolombatovich, who coached Columbia University fencers to five N.C.A.A. championships and taught sword fighting to cast members of “Otello,” “Carmen” and “Don Giovanni” at the Metropolitan Opera, died on Sept. 19 in a hospital in Sarasota, Fla. He was 72.

The cause was complications of pneumonia, principally acute respiratory distress syndrome, his family said.

Mr. Kolombatovich — whose first lessons came from his father — spent 32 years as the head coach or co-head coach of the Columbia fencing team, many of them with Aladar Kogler. During that time, Columbia’s program became one of the country’s strongest: About 150 of its fencers became All-Americans, 17 won N.C.A.A. titles and several qualified for the Olympics, including Erinn Smart.

The Columbia fencers thrived in New York City, long an epicenter of the sport in the United States.

“Every single thing that counts as a disadvantage for Columbia football works in our favor,” Mr. Kolombatovich told The Associated Press in 1988, adding that it was much easier to recruit for fencing than for football at that Ivy League school. (The Columbia Lions have had a long history of futility on the football field.)

“I only need two or three and I have a national championship program,” he said.

Before and during his time at Columbia, Mr. Kolombatovich, an épée specialist (one of three weapons used in fencing), instructed singers at the Met in dueling onstage. With his father, Oscar, a Yugoslavian-born fencing master, and on his own, Mr. Kolombatovich designed the swordplay in numerous operas in the 1970s and ’80s. After his father retired as the Met’s fencing master — a part-time job — his son took over.

“He and his father were the greatest fight experts in the business,” Fabrizio Melano, the stage director, said in a telephone interview.

“Not only was George great at teaching people how to fight but also in how to integrate the fighting into the context of the opera,” added Mr. Melano, who directed “Otello” and “Roméo et Juliette” at the Met, and “Macbeth” at the Cincinnati Opera, with one or both Kolombatovichs on swashbuckling duty. “George and his father knew a lot about stage fighting but always insisted on safety. The swords were blunted but they were still made of steel.”

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/09/29/obituaries/29KOLOMBATOVICH2/merlin_144485799_0e9a452e-cac2-406e-b862-d82c3207b5b6-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Mr. Kolombatovich, right, with his brother, Richard, in the mid-1950s. Richard Kolombatovich went on to become the captain of the Harvard fencing team.
Credit Kolombatovich Archive

George Edward Kolombatovich was born in Flushing, Queens, on Aug. 29, 1946. His father was born in Split, in what is now Croatia, and taught fencing at the United States Military Academy at West Point, having been influenced after his immigration to the United States by acrobatic film swordsmen like Douglas Fairbanks Sr. His mother, Joan (Roke) Kolombatovich, was a schoolteacher and principal.

For young George, a life in fencing appears to have been inevitable. Instruction from his father began when he was about 5.

“He taught me only when I asked for lessons and they were very short,” he told Andy Shaw, the historian of USA Fencing, in a video interview in 2010. “After about a year-and-a-half of doing this, probably four or five times a week, he sent me to Giorgio Santelli” — who won a gold medal with the Italian team at the 1920 Olympics.

George became a junior fencing champion on Long Island and a senior champion while in high school in Greenlawn. He attended New York University for two years and continued the sport during his Army service in Europe.

“Even though it hurts my vanity, I must admit that George can beat me,” Oscar Kolombatovich told The New York Times in 1974.

(Mr. Kolombatovich’s brother, Richard, was the captain of the fencing team at Harvard.)

A back injury in a car accident cut short George’s competitive career; he began working at his father’s fencing academy in Centerport, N.Y., and at his small factory nearby in East Northport, which manufactured swords, daggers and armor for collectors, film and theater.

And, in the late 1970s, he started coaching, at Huntington High School on Long Island and then at New York University.

When Columbia hired him as assistant coach in 1978, The Daily News wrote — with his opera background in mind — that he had handled “such grudge matches as Cassio vs. Rodrigo in the Met’s ‘Otello,’ ” so Mr. Kolombatovich “should have little trouble getting the Lion fencers up for the Elis and Crimson.”

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/09/29/obituaries/29KOLOMBATOVICH3/merlin_144482562_c3ed0906-bb4c-4e7a-be29-e9e81b882271-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Mr. Kolombatovich last year at his induction into the US Fencing Hall of Fame in Salt Lake City.Credit USA Fencing

In addition to coaching the fencing team, Mr. Kolombatovich refereed around the world, including at three Olympics, and served on the officials’ committees of USA Fencing and the International Fencing Federation.

One of his major achievements was to create a new grading system to judge referees in the United States.

“George changed the system that was there, which had been cursory, and made it more complex and better,” Mr. Shaw, who is also a fencer and owner of the US Fencing Hall of Fame. “And he recruited people like me to train referees under the new system.”

Mr. Kolombatovich’s international knowledge helped fencers like Ms. Smart, a graduate of Barnard, which has had a long affiliation with Columbia. She won a silver medal with the women’s foil team at the 2008 Summer Games in Beijing.

“He helped us balance our collegiate and international careers, which is a big part of fencing,” Ms. Smart said in a telephone interview.

He is survived by his wife Henriette (Wilkens) Kolombatovich, who is known as Etta; two daughters, Gail Zelley and Erika Olinger; two sons, George O. and Glenn, and five grandchildren. His marriage to Sally Nygren ended in divorce.

Mr. Kolombatovich retired from Columbia in 2011 but continued to be a referee and assign officials to tournaments. He was sanctioned by USA Fencing in 2015 and 2016 for an incident that involved yelling at a referee — “he had a volatile temper and sometimes blew up,” Mr. Shaw said — but was cleared in time to be inducted into the fencing hall of fame last year.

Two days before the induction ceremony, he had a heart attack, but he showed up to accept the honor.

A version of this article appears in print on Sept. 30, 2018, on Page B6 of the New York edition with the headline: George Kolombatovich, 72, a Specialist of Swordplay

I never met Maestro Kolombatovich but I used to sell the swords that his, Maestro Oscar Kolombatovich, used to make when I worked for the Armoury (http://www.amfence.com/html/armoury.html). I still have a dao (https://www.martialartsmart.com/broadswords-dao.html) he made. It's top heavy. I regret never acquiring the jian (https://www.martialartsmart.com/straight-swords-jian.html) he made - I had the chance but I didn't move on it.

GeneChing

12-20-2018, 09:33 AM

srsly? wheelchair slant eye (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70843-**********)? and a fencer (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing) too? :o

12/14/2018 04:29 pm ET
World Champion Fencer Under Fire For Racist ********** Gesture While In Japan (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/emanuele-lambertini-fencer-paralympic-racist-**********-gesture_us_5c13f3b8e4b05d7e5d81d4be)
Actor Jimmy O. Yang called on people to “take a stance against this.”
By Kimberly Yam

Not. This. Again.

Emanuele Lambertini, a paralympic wheelchair fencer for Italy, shared a picture on Instagram Friday of himself making the ********** gesture often used to mock Asians.

View image on Twitter (https://twitter.com/gracelynnkung/status/1073648959111876608/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwte rm%5E1073648959111876608&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2Fent ry%2Femanuele-lambertini-fencer-paralympic-racist-**********-gesture_us_5c13f3b8e4b05d7e5d81d4be)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuZeB14UcAAgpnZ.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuZeB17UwAARTnF.jpg

Grace Lynn Kung
✔
@gracelynnkung
Olympic level racism: 🏆#EmanueleLambertini #Olympics #italy #fencing #Tokyo2020

124
10:40 AM - Dec 14, 2018
122 people are talking about this
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The picture, taken while in Japan for a competition, is accompanied by a caption which translates to “That’s how I feel after having eaten 🍣🍚🍜 for a week ... but at least it was worth it!” It has since been removed from Lambertini’s Instagram.

Those of Asian descent were quick to call out the racism behind the post, flooding Lambertini’s account with criticisms. Jimmy O. Yang of “Silicon Valley” even posted about the photo on his own Instagram, urging people to “take a stance against this.”

“This type of overt ignorance is absolutely unacceptable,” Yang said.

Criticisms of Lambertini spilled over to other social media platforms as well, with Twitter users also pointing out the athlete’s offensive post.

View image on Twitter (https://twitter.com/yushika97/status/1073660488830107649/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwte rm%5E1073660488830107649&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2Fent ry%2Femanuele-lambertini-fencer-paralympic-racist-**********-gesture_us_5c13f3b8e4b05d7e5d81d4be)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuZofhUWwAAIlzo.jpg

Yushika
@yushika97
Meet Emanuele Lambertini
Who posted this racist picture on instagram.
Your a paralympic fencer and you in Japan who hosted you with all there hospitality.
And this is how you thank them.
With this racist picture
SHAME on you!#EmanueleLambertini #Olympics #Tokyo2020 #paralympics

31
11:26 AM - Dec 14, 2018
26 people are talking about this
Twitter Ads info and privacy
Lambertini, who took home a silver medal at the Wheelchair Fencing World Cup in Kyoto, has yet to respond to the backlash. HuffPost has reached out to the International Paralympic Committee for comment.

Kimberly Yam
Asian-American Affairs Reporter, HuffPost

GeneChing

01-03-2019, 08:38 AM

READ Kung Fu, Fencing and Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do By Gene Ching in our WINTER 2019 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1446). Available digitally too via Zinio (https://www.zinio.com/publisher/kung-fu-tai-chi-m5078).

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THREADS:
Jeet Kune Do (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?4858-Jeet-Kune-Do)
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GeneChing

01-16-2019, 09:03 AM

U.S. Women’s Foil Team Earns First Ever World No. 1 Ranking with Silver in Poland, Kiefer Wins Individual Bronze (https://www.usafencing.org/news_article/show/985523)
01/15/2019, 4:36AM CSTBY NICOLE JOMANTAS

https://cdn2.sportngin.com/attachments/photo/f909-116890820/EVA_3315.jpg
Katowice Women's Foil World Cup silver medalists Iman Blow, Jackie Dubrovich, Nicole Ross and Lee Kiefer with Coach Buckie Leach. Photo Credit: Pavia / Bizzi

(Colorado Springs, Colo.) – For the first time in history, the U.S. Women’s Foil Team reached the No. 1 position in the world rankings this weekend after a silver medal finish at the Katowice Women’s Foil World Cup in Poland.

The honor capped off a double-medal weekend for Team USA with Lee Kiefer (Lexington, Ky.) earning bronze in the individual event on Saturday.

Katowice Women’s Foil World Cup Results

On Sunday, Kiefer joined with her 2012 Olympic teammate Nicole Ross (New York City, N.Y.) and four-time Junior World medalists Jackie Dubrovich (Riverdale, N.J.) and Iman Blow (Brooklyn, N.Y.) in the team event.

Kiefer and Ross were both returning members of the squad that won gold at the 2018 Senior World Championships and Team USA held a No. 3 seed going into the Katowice World Cup.

After a bye into the table of 16, Team USA dominated its opening match against Great Britain, winning eight of nine bouts with Ross and Kiefer earning +11 and +10 indicators, respectively, and Dubrovich posting a +3 indicator as the team ended the match with a 45-21 victory.

In the quarter-finals against Korea, Team USA held a two-touch lead at 12-10 after the third bout, but Ross changed the momentum of the match with a 8-2 win over Hye Mi Oh to give Team USA a 20-12 lead. Team USA went on to win four of the next five matches with Kiefer closing out the victory at 45-24 and Ross leading the squad with another +11 indicator.

Team USA took on Russia, the 2016 Senior World Team Champions, in the semifinals. Led by World No. 1 and 2016 Olympic Champion Inna Deriglazova, the Russians held an 18-11 lead after the fourth bout. In the fifth, however, Kiefer dismantled Anastasiia Ivanova, scoring six straight touches in just over a minute to win the bout, 10-3, and tie the match at 21. Dubrovich bested three-time individual European Championships medalist Larisa Korobeynikova, 6-3, in the next bout to give Team USA a 27-24 lead. Ross split her bout with Ivanova at five touches each in the seventh and Blow subbed in for Dubrovich in the eighth against Deriglazova who brought the Russians into a 40-37 lead. In the anchor bout, Russia held a 42-39 lead in the first bout, but Kiefer remained calm and scored five straight to put Team USA up, 44-42. Korobeynikova scored once more, but Kiefer put up a one-light touch at the 90 second mark to seal the win for Team USA. Not only did Kiefer win the crucial bout, 8-3, but she ended the match at +13 overall.

The Americans went on to fence France in the finals – a team that won bronze at the Senior Worlds in the midst of a run that included six straight medals going into the Katowice World Cup.

All four U.S. team members competed in the final, but France controlled the match from the start and the Americans were unable to regain ground. With France holding a 40-19 lead after the eighth, Kiefer anchored against 2018 Senior World silver medalist Ysaora Thibus and earned seven touches, but Thibus closed strong with a 40-26 win for France.

Team USA’s silver medal marks its third podium finish in the last four international tournaments, including gold medals at the 2018 Senior Worlds and Zonal Championships.

Team USA took the World No. 1 position from Italy – a team that ended the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons as the Overall World Cup Champions.

On Saturday, Kiefer earned her 10th individual career World Cup medal with a bronze medal finish that allowed her to retain the No. 3 position in the individual World Rankings.

Exempt from pools, Kiefer fenced 2018 Senior World team silver medalist Chiara Cini (ITA) in the 64. Although Cini led the bout, 8-5, at the break, Kiefer went on a 10-2 run in the second to win the bout, 15-10.

In the 32, Kiefer took a 13-9 lead over 2018 Junior World bronze medalist Eva Lacheray (FRA) after the first period before finishing with a 15-12 victory.

Kiefer controlled the first period of her table of 16 bout against 2017 Senior World team bronze medalist Adelina Zagidullina (RUS), taking a 10-2 lead before finishing the period at 10-4. Kiefer gave up just two touches in the second period and ended with a 15-6 win.

Kiefer would need a quarter-final win against 2013 Junior World medalist Francesca Palumbo (ITA) to guarantee a podium finish. Although Kiefer held a 10-6 lead after the second break, Palumbo soon pulled ahead to tie the bout at 10 in the third. The two exchanged touches with Kiefer pulling ahead at 13-12 in the final minute before Palumbo tied at 13. Kiefer scored again, however, with 4.56 seconds on the clock, to win the bout, 14-13.

continued next post

GeneChing

01-16-2019, 09:03 AM

The win would be Palumbo’s second of the day against an American after she defeated 2018 Senior World Team Champion Nzingha Prescod (Brooklyn, N.Y.) in the 64. After taking a 6-3 lead in the second period, Palumbo went on a eight-touch run. Prescod couldn’t make up the lost ground and dropped the bout, 10-5.

In the semifinals, Kiefer fenced Leonie Ebert (GER) – a 2015 Cadet World Champion who won the first of three senior international medals last year with a bronze at the Absolute Fencing Gear® FIE Grand Prix Anaheim. Ebert came out aggressively, scoring six straight on Kiefer who forced a comeback, coming within one of Ebert before the 2015 Junior World bronze medalist took the bout, 15-12.

Kiefer, who has now won five international medals in the last 12 months, remains No. 3 in the World Rankings and is No. 1 in the USA Fencing Senior National Team Point Standings.

Dubrovich and 16-year-old Maia Weintraub (Philadelphia, Pa.) each earned top-32 results.

After a 4-2 finish in pools, Dubrovich defeated Pia Ueltgesforth (GER), 15-3, and Gabriela Cecchini (BRA), 15-7, to qualify for the table of 64 where she fenced Ross for the first time in international competition.

Ross lead the bout, 3-1, after the first and 5-4 after the second, but Dubrovich scored five straight to pull ahead at 9-5 in the third. Ross rushed to catch up in the final minute, but Dubrovich took the win, 12-7.

In the 32, Dubrovich went on another run, scoring four straight against 2014 Senior World silver medalist Martina Batini (ITA) to take a 9-6 lead. The call was overturned, however and the score given to the Italian who followed with a five-touch run en route to ending the period with a 12-9 lead in Dubrovich. Batini would go on to finish the bout with a 15-12 victory.

Dubrovich’s finish allowed her to remain No. 2 in the Senior National Team Point Standings behind Kiefer as she seeks to qualify for her first Senior World Team with Ross in third with Prescod in fourth.

Weintraub went 4-2 in pools and defeated both her junior teammate, Ever Marinelli (San Francisco, Calif.), 15-8, and Karin Miyawaki (JPN), the 2018 Shanghai Grand Prix silver medalist, by a score of 15-12.

In the 64, 2012 Olympic team bronze medalist Hee Sook Jeon (KOR) led the bout at 7-3 in the second before Weintraub took four straight touches to tie the score at seven at the end of the period. Weintraub controlled the third, however, outscoring Jeon, 8-3, to win the bout, 15-10.

Weintraub’s run ended in the 32, however, with a 15-5 loss in the first period of her bout against 2014 Senior World medalist Martina Batini (ITA).

Weintraub earned both junior and senior points with her first top-32 at a Senior World Cup, moving up to No. 5 in the Junior National Team Point Standings. The No. 3 cadet in the nation, Weintraub is aiming to qualify for both the junior and cadet teams this season.

A member of the team that won the 2018 Senior World title, Margaret Lu (Greenwich, Conn.) returned to her first international event since having surgery in the fall.

The two-time Senior World team medalist finished the pool rounds at 4-2 on Friday and defeated Mona Stephan (GER), 15-2, and Kata Kondricz (HUN), 15-12, to qualify for the second day.

In the table of 64 on Saturday, Lu led No. 8 seed Svetlana Tripapina (RUS), 12-8, early in the third period, but the 2017 Senior World team bronze medalist fought back, scoring seven straight to take the bout, 15-12.

Lu’s finish puts her sixth in the National Team Point Standings behind two-time NCAA medalist Madison Zeiss (Culver City, Calif.) who holds the No. 5 position.

Blow also advanced to the table of 64, finishing pool rounds at 5-1 and defeating Hye Mi Oh (KOR) to make the second day.

In the 64, Blow led 2016 Junior World silver medalist Erica Cipressa (ITA), 6-4, before the Italian scored seven straight as she went on to close out the period at 12-8. In the third, Blow scored four, but Cipressa finished the match with a 15-12 win.

Blow now sits as the No. 7 fencer in the Senior National Team Point Standings.

May Tieu (Belle Mead, N.J.), a 2018 Cadet World silver medalist, earned her first top-64 result on the senior circuit.

The 17 year old went 5-1 in pools and defeated Marie Duchesne (FRA), 15-12, in the preliminary table of 64.

In a rematch of their 2018 Cadet World final, Tieu faced Yuka Ueno (JPN) in the 64. With the score tied at four after the first two periods, Tieu scored twice to open the third and held a 7-5 lead midway through the bout. Ueno scored twice in the last 70 seconds, however, to force an overtime period where she earned the first touch for an 8-7 win.

Tieu remains No. 2 in the Junior National Team Point Standings as one of four returning members of the 2018 Junior World Team who ended the season No. 1 in the world as the reigning Junior World Team Champions.

Top eight and U.S. results are as follows:

Katowice Women’s Team Foil World Cup
1. France
2. USA
3. Italy
4. Russia
5. Germany
6. Canada
7. Poland
8. Korea

Katowice Women’s Individual Foil World Cup
1. Inna Deriglazova (RUS)
2. Leonie Ebert (GER)
3. Arianna Errigo (ITA)
3. Lee Kiefer (Lexington, Ky.)
5. Pauline Ranvier (FRA)
6. Larisa Korobeynikova (RUS)
7. Anastasiia Ivanova (RUS)
8. Francesca Palumbo (ITA)

29. Maia Weintraub (Philadelphia, Pa.)
30. Jackie Dubrovich (Riverdale, N.J.)
35. Nicole Ross (New York City, N.Y.)
36. Nzingha Prescod (Brooklyn, N.Y.)
45. May Tieu (Belle Mead, N.J.)
47. Iman Blow (Brooklyn, N.Y.)
58. Margaret Lu (Greenwich, Conn.)
67. Delphine Devore (Westport, Conn.)
104. Madison Zeiss (Culver City, Calif.)
133. Ever Marinelli (San Francisco, Calif.)
Making history. :cool:

GeneChing

01-18-2019, 08:42 AM

Enter to win KungFuMagazine.com's contest for THE LAST CAPTAIN on DVD (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/sweepstakes-last-captain.php)! Contest ends 5:30 p.m. PST on 1/31/2019.

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GeneChing

02-04-2019, 02:28 PM

See our WINNERS: The Last Captain on DVD (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71195-WINNERS-The-Last-Captain-on-DVD) thread

THREADS
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GeneChing

02-06-2019, 01:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjPXEf-fpaw

GeneChing

02-06-2019, 01:52 PM

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WHEN JEWS RULED THE FENCING WORLD (https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/279253/when-jews-ruled-the-fencing-world)
Jewish athletes have won more Olympic medals for fencing than for any other sport
By Robert Rockaway
January 29, 2019 • 12:00 AM

At the 1936 Berlin Olympics, the women’s fencing medal ceremony witnessed three medal winners with Jewish backgrounds. Ilona Elek, a Hungarian, won the gold medal. Helene Mayer, a German, won the silver. And Ellen Muller-Preis, an Austrian, won bronze. All of them stood together atop the medal platform. It should be noted that all three women were half-Jewish and none of them considered themselves Jewish. This denial made no difference to the Nazis, however, who deemed them to be Jewish. A photograph of the ceremony shows Mayer, the silver medal winner, standing on the podium and giving the Nazi salute.

Mayer’s bizarre gesture created consternation and a great deal of comment. She was born in 1910 to a Jewish father and a Lutheran mother. Although her physician father was active in Jewish organizations, Helene and her two brothers were raised in a secular home and she attended a Christian school. Before Hitler’s coming to power, Mayer had been one of Germany’s most beloved athletes. She won her first German foil championship in 1924 when she was 13. By 1930, she had won six German championships. She won a gold medal in fencing at the age of 17 at the 1928 Olympics in Amsterdam. Representing Germany, she won 18 bouts and lost only two. Attractive and vivacious, she was a fencing star and Germany’s most dazzling athlete.

Mayer’s father died in 1931 and her mother and brothers remained in Germany. After she competed for Germany in the 1932 Los Angeles Olympics—finishing in fifth place—she decided to stay in California as an exchange student at Scripps College. When Hitler came to power, her exchange was terminated, as was her membership in her hometown fencing club. Returning home to Germany seemed impossible, so she finished her studies at Scripps and took a job teaching German at Mills College in Oakland, California, where she could also continue fencing. Nonetheless, she accepted an invitation to compete for Germany in the 1936 Berlin Summer Olympics. This was arranged by Avery Brundage, head of the U.S. Olympic Committee. He convinced Germany to let one German-Jewish athlete onto the German team to quiet American calls for a U.S. boycott of the games. (According to German law, Mayer was a mischling, a German of mixed Jewish and Aryan blood.) Mayer was the only German athlete from a Jewish background to win a medal that year.

Despite winning a medal, she was not celebrated on her return to Germany. The Nazi government barely tolerated her. Joseph Goebbels, the government’s minister of propaganda, instructed the German press not to make any comments regarding Mayer’s non-Aryan ancestry. After the 1936 games, she never competed in the Olympics again. She returned to the United States and became a citizen in 1940. She won the U.S. women’s foil championship six times from 1937 to 1946. She was also world foil champion in 1937.

Mayer moved back to Germany in 1952 and married an old friend. She died of breast cancer in 1953. She was inducted into the United States Fencing Association Hall of Fame posthumously in 1963. In 2000, Sports Illustrated named her the greatest fencer of the 20th century.

*

American Jews generally have heard about Jewish-American athletes such as Sandy Koufax and Hank Greenberg in baseball, Sid Luckman and Benny Friedman in football, and Benny Leonard and Barney Ross in boxing. But they know practically nothing about the history of outstanding European Jewish athletes before WWII. Jewish Olympic fencers brought their home countries fame and international recognition, and brought honor to themselves and the Jewish people.

Young Jews have always viewed participating in sports as a means of integrating and gaining acceptance among their non-Jewish peers and within the larger society. This held true for Jewish university students in Germany, Austria, and Hungary during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Only there, fencing and dueling with swords became the Jewish students’ sports of choice. They did so because fencing was considered a path to climb the social ladder. In addition, dueling against non-Jews was a way for Jews to show their mettle and offered a means to defend Jewish honor, especially in a time of rising anti-Semitism.

Even Theodor Herzl, the founder of political Zionism, enthused about fencing. As a journalist, Herzl wrote articles about fencing duels between Jews and French anti-Semites in the late 19th century. Herzl himself once offered to duel a Viennese anti-Semite. He was not bluffing. As a child, he had been trained to use a sword and fought a duel as part of his initiation into Albia, a German student dueling fraternity. Herzl believed that “a half dozen duels would very much raise the social position of Jews.”

Because of widespread anti-Semitism in Europe, Jewish students were excluded from many university fraternities and athletic associations. Consequently, they created fraternities and sporting clubs of their own. Their dueling frequently took place within the confines of the Jewish environment. But once they engaged in competition with non-Jews, they achieved a reputation as fierce duelists. As a consequence of their ability and competitiveness, numbers of Jewish fencers became champions in their countries and in the Olympics. Olympic fencing competition was a means by which young Jews could express their patriotism and love of country and a way to show the world that Jews could compete with non-Jews at the highest level and win. In fact, Jewish athletes have won more Olympic medals for fencing than for any other sport.

The first Jewish fencing Olympic medal winner was Siegfried “Fritz” Flesch (1872-1939), who fenced for Austria. He won a bronze medal in the saber competition at the 1900 Summer Olympics in Paris. His was the first of 35 Olympic fencing medals, 17 of them gold, won by Jewish fencers from 1900 to 1936.

The next Jewish Olympic medal for fencing was won by an Englishman, Edgar Seligman (1867-1958). Seligman was born in San Francisco to German parents. After his parents moved to London, he became a naturalized British citizen. A talented artist by profession, he competed in five Olympic Games as a member of the British fencing team. He was the only man to win the British fencing championship in three fencing divisions: the epee in 1904 and 1906; the foil in 1906 and 1907; and the saber in 1923 and 1924. He first competed in the 1906 Intercalated Games, held in Athens to renew interest in the Olympic Games. The British team won the silver medal. Seligman competed again in the 1908 Olympic Games in London, where he and his teammates won the silver medal in the team epee competition. Four years later, Seligman captained the British fencing team at the Stockholm Olympics. He competed in three events and won another silver medal in the team epee competition. Although Seligman competed in four more Olympics—1920, 1924, 1928, and 1932—he never won another medal.

Hungarians had always taken pride in being descended from saber-wielding mounted warriors. For a Jew to become a saber champion was to fulfill a fantasy of acceptance. The first Hungarian Olympic champions were Jews who excelled in saber fencing, the most Hungarian of martial arts. In the 1908 London Olympic Games, four Hungarian-Jewish fencers—Dezso Foldes, Jeno Fuchs, Oskar Gerde, and Lajos Werkner—won a gold medal in the team saber competition. Fuchs also won a gold medal in the individual saber competition. He became the first Hungarian Olympic champion in fencing. In addition to his gold medals, Fuchs (1882-1955) won 22 individual matches in the 1908 and 1912 Olympic Games.
continued next post

GeneChing

02-06-2019, 01:53 PM

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Edgar Seligman (right) (Photo courtesy Wingate Institute for Physical Education and Sports Archives)

In the 1908 Olympics, two French Jews, Alexandre Lippmann and Jean Stern, won the gold medal for the team epee competition. In the 1912 Stockholm Olympics, Foldes, Fuchs, Gerde, and Werkner once more won team gold medals for the fencing and team saber events. Fuchs won a gold medal in the individual saber competition and Werkner won a gold medal in the fencing competition. Two Belgian Jews, Gaston Salmon and Jacques Ochs, won gold medals for the fencing and team epee competition. Albert Bogen of Austria won a silver medal for the fencing and team saber competition, Ivan Osiier of Denmark won a silver medal for the individual epee competition. Otto Herschmann of Austria won a silver medal for the fencing and team saber competition.

After WWI, fencing became almost an obsession among Hungarian Jews. From 1920 to 1936, Hungarian-Jewish fencers won 11 Olympic medals. The Hungarian-Jewish prominence resulted from a number of factors. The Austro-Hungarian Empire had suffered defeat in the war. As a consequence, Hungary lost almost two-thirds of its territory and more than half its population. Before the war, the nation’s population numbered over 18 million. In 1920, the population of the new Hungary numbered 8 million. Before the war, the Jewish population numbered 911,227. After the war it numbered 473,000. And beginning in 1920 violent anti-Semitism erupted in Hungary and it became the first country in Eastern Europe to introduce anti-Jewish legislation: a 1920 quota on Jews in universities. This new situation spurred Jews to show their courage and display their loyalty and patriotism to the new Hungary. Fencing became their way to do so.

Hungarians associated the sport of fencing with courage, virility, masculinity, and honor. Since Jews sought to exemplify these qualities, they took to fencing and dueling with swords with unprecedented zeal. Fencing became almost an obsession among Hungarian Jews and became a key part of their efforts to identify with and be accepted by the country’s ruling classes. The victories of Jewish fencers in the Olympics provided the Jewish community with pride and served as a means to prove its courage and valor to the Hungarian public. The Hungarian-Jewish press regularly articulated the contributions of Jews to Hungary, giving special attention to Jewish victories in the Olympics. Hungary’s non-Jewish press also noted the Jewish victories and lauded the Jewish champions as representatives of the Magyar virtues of physical agility and power. Many Jewish journalists wrote for Hungary’s newspapers, so they likely were among the most vociferous of those who praised the Jews.

In the 1928 Amsterdam games, three Hungarian Jews—Janos Garay, Sandor Gombos, and Attila Petschauer—won gold medals for the team saber competition. Petschauer also won a silver medal for the individual saber competition. In the 1932 Lake Placid and Los Angeles games, Petschauer and Endre Kabos of Hungary won gold medals for the team saber competition. Kabos also won a bronze medal for the individual saber competition. In the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Kabos won gold medals for individual saber and team saber competitions. In those games, the three female fencing medal winners and Kabos, all of whom had Jewish backgrounds, took home five of the eight fencing medals.

Kabos was fully conscious of the symbolism of competing in the capital of the Third Reich. Before the games, he wrote an article in the Hungarian-Jewish newspaper Egyenloseg (Equality), in which he said that Jewish athletes have a psychological handicap. “We will go to a place to demonstrate our strength and ability where our Jewish brothers are considered another race, not humans created by God, even harmful, and they get a treatment according to this painful perception.” He concluded by saying that the Hungarian-Jewish Olympians “will fight not only for universal Hungarian nationhood and Hungarian pride in Berlin but we, Jewish sportsmen, must and want to show the image of Jewish power and virtue.”

*

Five Hungarian-Jewish Olympic champions did not survive the war. Lajos Werkner died in Budapest in November 1943 at the age of 60. Oscar Gerde died in the Budapest ghetto in October 1944. Janos Garay, who won a gold medal in the team saber in the 1918 Amsterdam Olympics and a silver medal for team saber at the 1924 Olympics, was deported and murdered in the Mauthausen concentration camp.

The Hungarian gold medalists Attila Petschauer and Endre Kabos suffered similar fates. Petschauer was born in Hungary in 1904 and was a fencing prodigy before his teen years. His father named him Attila after Attila the Hun, an intrinsically gentile name. In the 1928 Amsterdam Olympics, he won a silver medal in the individual competition and a gold medal in the team saber event, winning all 20 of his matches. When the Germans occupied Hungary in 1944, Petschauer was deported to a labor camp in the Ukrainian town of Davidovka. During a lineup of prisoners, he was recognized by a military officer who had been his friend in Hungary. This did not save him. His former friend instructed the guards to taunt Petschauer. The guards shouted: “You, Olympic fencing medal winner, let’s see if you can climb trees.” It was midwinter and bitter cold, but the guards ordered him to undress then climb a tree. The amused guards ordered him to crow like a rooster and sprayed him with cold water. Covered with ice from the water, Petschauer froze to death. His life and death were dramatized in the 1999 film Sunshine, starring Ralph Fiennes.

https://www.tabletmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/rockawayfencingfull.jpg
From left: Endre Kabos, Attila Petschauer, Helene Mayer (Photos: Wikipedia)

Endre Kabos (1906-1944) was born in Hungary. He began fencing as a youngster after he received a fencing outfit as a birthday present. By the 1930s he had become one of the world’s greatest fencers. In addition to his four Olympic gold medals, he won multiple gold medals as an individual and as part of Hungarian teams in European fencing competitions. During WWII he was interned in a general labor camp. In June 1944 he was sent to a labor camp for Jews. He also taught some German army officers the use of saber fencing. He later was transferred to Budapest where he transported food and provisions for prisoners in the camps. On Nov. 4, 1944, he was on a bridge that German soldiers were preparing to blow up to prevent it from being used by the advancing Red Army. He was killed when a munitions truck he was driving exploded as a result of a pipe bomb. In 1986, he was inducted into the International Jewish Sports Hall of Fame.

Dezso Foldes (1880-1950) was the only Hungarian-Jewish Olympic champion who survived the war. After the 1912 Olympics he left Hungary for the United States. He opened a medical clinic for the poor in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in Cleveland in 1950.

The Hungarian-Jewish fencers loved Hungary. They believed that their victories in the Olympics brought honor and glory to their homeland. In the end, their Olympic medals and achievements did not save them. They suffered the same fate as other Jews.

THREADS
1936 Berlin Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69206-1936-Berlin-Olympics-Kung-Fu-Demo)
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

02-22-2019, 10:13 AM

In France, the Force is strong with lightsaber dueling (https://apnews.com/cd0c1f824ff949cab6f76d3b03a389bb)
By JOHN LEICESTER
February 18, 2019

https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/media:204871e85af1451ca6248d1d3f06d550/1000.jpeg
In this Sunday, Feb. 10, 2019, photo, competitors battle during a national lightsaber tournament in Beaumont-sur-Oise, north of Paris. In France, it is easier than ever now to act out "Star Wars" fantasies. The fencing federation has officially recognized lightsaber dueling as a competitive sport. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)

BEAUMONT-SUR-OISE, France (AP) — Master Yoda, dust off his French, he must.

It’s now easier than ever in France to act out “Star Wars” fantasies, because its fencing federation has borrowed from a galaxy far, far away and officially recognized lightsaber dueling as a competitive sport, granting the iconic weapon from George Lucas’ saga the same status as the foil, epee and sabre, the traditional blades used at the Olympics.

Of course, the LED-lit, rigid polycarbonate lightsaber replicas can’t slice a Sith lord in half. But they look and, with the more expensive sabers equipped with a chip in their hilt that emits a throaty electric rumble, even sound remarkably like the silver screen blades that Yoda and other characters wield in the blockbuster movies .

Plenty realistic, at least, for duelists to work up an impressive sweat slashing, feinting and stabbing in organized, 3-minute bouts. The physicality of lightsaber combat is part of why the French Fencing Federation threw its support behind the sport and is now equipping fencing clubs with lightsabers and training would-be lightsaber instructors. Like virtuous Jedi knights, the French federation sees itself as combatting a Dark Side: The sedentary habits of 21st-century life that are sickening ever-growing numbers of adults and kids .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh8ZdrK3qOo

“With young people today, it’s a real public health issue. They don’t do any sport and only exercise with their thumbs,” says Serge Aubailly, the federation secretary general. “It’s becoming difficult to (persuade them to) do a sport that has no connection with getting out of the sofa and playing with one’s thumbs. That is why we are trying to create a bond between our discipline and modern technologies, so participating in a sport feels natural.”

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Lightsaber dueling: Some basic rules.

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VIDEO: How-to guide to lightsaber dueling.

In the past, the likes of Zorro, Robin Hood and The Three Musketeers helped lure new practitioners to fencing. Now, joining and even supplanting them are Luke Skywalker , Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader.

“Cape and sword movies have always had a big impact on our federation and its growth,” Aubailly says. ”Lightsaber films have the same impact . Young people want to give it a try.”

And the young at heart.

Police officer Philippe Bondi, 49, practiced fencing for 20 years before switching to lightsaber. When a club started offering classes in Metz, the town in eastern France where he is stationed for the gendarmerie, Bondi says he was immediately drawn by the prospect of living out the love he’s had for the “Star Wars” universe since he saw the first film at age 7, on its release in 1977 .

He fights in the same wire-mesh face mask he used for fencing. He spent about 350 euros ($400) on his protective body armor (sturdy gloves, chest, shoulder and shin pads) and on his federation-approved lightsaber, opting for luminous green “because it’s the Jedi colors, and Yoda is my master.”

“I had to be on the good side, given that my job is upholding the law,” he said.

Bondi awoke well before dawn to make the four-hour drive from Metz to a national lightsaber tournament outside Paris this month that drew 34 competitors. It showcased how far the sport has come in a couple of years but also that it’s still light years from becoming mainstream.

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In France, the Force is strong with lightsaber dueling

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PHOTOS: The spectacle of lightsaber dueling.

The crowd was small and a technical glitch prevented the duelers’ photos, combat names and scores from being displayed on a big screen, making bouts tough to follow. But the illuminated swooshes of colored blades looked spectacular in the darkened hall. Fan cosplay as “Star Wars” characters added levity, authenticity and a tickle of bizarre to the proceedings, especially the incongruous sight of Darth Vader buying a ham sandwich and a bag of potato chips at the cafeteria during a break.

In building their sport from the ground up, French organizers produced competition rules intended to make lightsaber dueling both competitive and easy on the eyes.

“We wanted it to be safe, we wanted it to be umpired and, most of all, we wanted it to produce something visual that looks like the movies, because that is what people expect,” said Michel Ortiz, the tournament organizer.

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This isn't the car you're looking for: 'Star Wars' fans in cosplay had a ball at the tournament.

Combatants fight inside a circle marked in tape on the floor. Strikes to the head or body are worth 5 points; to the arms or legs, 3 points; on hands, 1 point. The first to 15 points wins or, if they don’t get there quickly, the high scorer after 3 minutes. If both fighters reach 10 points, the bout enters “sudden death,” where the first to land a head- or body-blow wins, a rule to encourage enterprising fighters.

Blows only count if the fighters first point the tip of their saber behind them. That rule prevents the viper-like, tip-first quick forward strikes seen in fencing. Instead, the rule encourages swishier blows that are easier for audiences to see and enjoy, and which are more evocative of the duels in “Star Wars.” Of those, the battle between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul in “The Phantom Menace” that ends badly for the Sith despite his double-bladed lightsaber is particularly appreciated by aficionados for its swordplay.

Still nascent, counting its paid-up practitioners in France in the hundreds, not thousands, lightsaber dueling has no hope of a place in the Paris Olympics in 2024.

But to hear the thwack of blades and see them cut shapes through the air is to want to give the sport a try.

Or, as Yoda would say: “Try not. Do! Or do not. There is no try.”

THREADS
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Jedi Academies (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65368-Jedi-Academies)
Paris Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68366-2024-Paris-Olympics)

GeneChing

04-09-2019, 04:56 PM

Bon touche?

I don't know these guys. This is way after my time. I stopped fencing decades ago.

Harvard Investigates Head Fencing Coach for Real Estate Transactions Involving Family of Current and Former Student-Athletes (https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/4/5/harvard-investigates-fencing-coach/)

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University Hall. Photo: Michael Gritzbach

By Jonah S. Berger and Molly C. McCafferty, Crimson Staff Writers
5 days ago

Harvard is investigating the University’s head fencing coach after he allegedly engaged in real estate and non-profit transactions involving the family of current and former students on the team, Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences Claudine Gay wrote in an email to FAS affiliates Thursday.

Peter Brand, Harvard’s head men and women’s fencing coach, sold his Needham, Mass. house to iTalk Global Communications, Inc. co-founder Jie Zhao in 2016 for hundreds of thousands of dollars above its valuation, the Boston Globe reported Thursday. Zhao’s younger son, a sop****re, was admitted to Harvard shortly after and is currently a member of the fencing team. His older son, who was also a member of the fencing team, graduated from Harvard in 2018.

Harvard was notified of the allegations against Brand on Monday, according to Gay’s email. The University has since opened an “independent review.”

Zhao told the Globe he decided to buy Brand’s house after he heard Brand complain about his long commute to campus. He denied that Brand sought him out for the purchase, calling it a “good investment.” Zhao never lived in the house, and he sold it at a loss of more than $300,000 just 17 months after first purchasing it.

One week after Zhao purchased Brand’s Needham residence, Brand and his wife allegedly paid $1.3 million for a Cambridge home, roughly $300,000 above its asking price.

Zhao and Brand did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

Gay’s announcement about the independent investigation comes in the wake of a nationwide admissions scandal in which 50 people have been charged for participating in a scheme involving bribing university officials and falsifying test scores to earn the children of wealthy entrepreneurs and celebrities entrance to top universities. Harvard was not one of the universities implicated.

Gay wrote in her email that it is the University’s “current understanding” that the allegations against Brand are not related to the scandal and that Harvard has admissions protocols meant to safeguard the process from interference. She noted that all athletes must be interviewed and approved by the College’s roughly 40-person admissions committee.

Zhao and Brand are also tenuously connected through a separate set of non-profit financial transactions that took place around the time his older son, who was also on the fencing team, was admitted to the College. Zhao told the Globe he donated $1 million to the National Fencing Foundation of Washington D.C. in 2013, the largest donation by far that the foundation had ever received. That same year, Brand and his wife formed a non-profit foundation in Delaware which received $100,000 from the National Fencing Foundation.

Zhao’s older son said in an interview with The Crimson that he was unaware of the donations until this week and has not heard from the University or outside counsel about the investigation. He pointed out that he was admitted to the College through the Early Action program in December 2013, months before he says his father’s donation “went through.”

College spokesperson Rachael Dane wrote in an emailed statement that the University is “committed” to upholding the “integrity of our recruitment practices.”

Brand could have violated National Collegiate Athletic Association rules with the acceptance of that donation, depending on how he used it and whether he took the requisite steps to record the contribution, according to Rick Allen, founder of Informed Athlete, which helps prospective college athletes navigate NCAA rules.

“There’s potential there that that could end up being a violation of the rules regarding coaches reporting and accepting outside income if he personally benefited from that money,” he said in an interview with The Crimson. “It would have to depend on whether the money was reported and how it was utilized.”

Though Allen said Zhao’s purchase of the house would likely not constitute an NCAA violation, Zhao’s decision to buy plane tickets for multiple members of the fencing team could run afoul of regulations around “impermissible benefits.”

Allen cautioned, though, that it likely depended on whether the other students on the flights were longtime friends of Zhao’s sons and if the trips were for competition or purely for leisure.

— Staff writer Jonah S. Berger can be reached at jonah.berger@thecrimson.com. Follow him on Twitter @jonahberger98.

—Staff writer Molly C. McCafferty can be reached at molly.mccafferty@thecrimson.com. Follow her on Twitter at @mollmccaff.

GeneChing

04-29-2019, 08:21 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6JdqIZQc7c

GeneChing

05-03-2019, 09:24 AM

Aldo Nadi discusses participating in a duel in his book On Fencing. I studied that text for my Provost exam as my Master for that course, Dr. William Gaugler, was a pupil of Nadi.

The Last Duel Took Place in France in 1967, and It’s Caught on Film (http://www.openculture.com/2019/05/the-last-duel-took-place-in-france-in-1967-and-its-caught-on-film.html)
in History | May 2nd, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68nuAcSuWQ

Another man insults your honor, leaving you no choice but to challenge him to a highly formalized fight to the death: in the 21st century, the very idea strikes us as almost incomprehensibly of the past. And dueling is indeed dead, at least in all the lands that historically had the most enthusiasm for it, but it hasn't been dead for as long as we might assume. The last recorded duel performed not with pistols but swords (specifically épées, the largest type of swords used in fencing) took place in France in 1967 — the year of the Saturn V and the Boeing 737, the Detroit riots and the Six-Day War, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and the Summer of Love.

The duelists were Marseilles mayor Gaston Defferre and another politician names Rene Ribière. "After a clash in the National Assembly, Defferre yelled 'Taisez-vous, abruti!' at Ribiere and refused to apologize," writes professional stage-and-screen fight coordinator Jared Kirby. "Ribière challenged and Defferre accepted. The duel took place with épées in a private residence in Neuilly-sur-Seine, and it was officiated by Jean de Lipkowskiin."

Heightening the drama, Ribière was to be married the following day, though he could expect to live to see his own wedding, Defferre having vowed not to kill him but "wound him in such a way as to spoil his wedding night very considerably."

You can see the subsequent action of this relatively modern-day duel in the newsreel footage at the top of the post. Defferre did indeed land a couple of touches on Ribière, both in the arm. Ribière, the younger man by twelve years, seems to have taken the event even more seriously than Defferre: he insisted not only on using sharper épées than the ones Defferre originally offered, but on continuing the duel after Defferre first struck him. Lipkowskiin put an end to the combat after the second time, and both Defferre and Ribière went on to live full lives, the former into the 1980s and the latter into the 1990s. Just how considerable an effect Ribière's dueling injuries had on his wedding night, however, history has not recorded.

via Messy Nessy

Based in Seoul, Colin Marshall writes and broadcasts on cities, language, and culture. His projects include the book The Stateless City: a Walk through 21st-Century Los Angeles and the video series The City in Cinema. Follow him on Twitter at @colinmarshall or on Facebook.

GeneChing

08-12-2019, 08:20 AM

Has this happened in the martial arts anywhere yet? Few martial arts tournaments even play the national anthem at the podium. Only a few even have podiums. :o

US Olympic medalist faces discipline for taking knee after winning Pan-Am gold (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/10/race-imboden-kneels-national-anthem-pan-am-games)
Race Imboden knelt during anthem after winning Pan-Am gold
Imboden, 26, won Olympic bronze in the team foil event in 2016
American hammer thrower Gwen Berry raised fist on podium
Guardian sport and agencies

Sat 10 Aug 2019 20.01 EDT Last modified on Mon 12 Aug 2019 06.31 EDT

United States gold medal winning fencer Race Imboden will face possible sanctions for taking a knee during the medal ceremony at the Pan-Am Games, the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC) said on Saturday.

Part of the United States gold medal winning squad in the team foil event, Imboden dropped to one knee during Friday’s award’s ceremony as the US flag was raised in a political protest.

Imboden, a Tampa native and 2016 Olympic team event bronze medalist, later explained his actions on Twitter.

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Race Imboden and Miles Chamley-Watson took a knee during the anthem ceremony at the Pharoah’s Challenge men’s foil fencing World Cup in 2017. Photograph: Devin Manky/Getty Images

“We must call for change,” wrote Imboden. “This week I am honored to represent Team USA at the Pan-Am Games, taking home gold and bronze.

“My pride however has been cut short by the multiple shortcomings of the country I hold so dear to my heart. Racism, gun control, mistreatment of immigrants, and a president who spreads hate are at the top of a long list.

“I chose to sacrifice my moment today at the top of the podium to call attention to issues that I believe need to be addressed. I encourage others to please use your platforms for empowerment and change.”

Athletes taking a knee has become a way of protesting injustice in the United States.

The protest was first started in 2016 by former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick to draw attention to police shootings of unarmed black men.

Imboden’s gesture preceded a similar protest on Saturday by American hammer thrower Gwen Berry, who raised her fist at the end of the national anthem after winning gold.

Nick Zaccardi
@nzaccardi
U.S. hammer thrower Gwen Berry raises her fist at the end of the national anthem at the Pan Am Games today. (h/t @sergeta)

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“I love representing my country. America is a great country. It’s the best country in the world,” Berry told USA Today. “However, what we are standing for right now, it is complete and utter – it’s extreme injustice.”

Both protests contravened an agreement all athletes on the US team signed that states they will not “make remarks or release propaganda of political, religious or racial nature, or any other kind” during the Games.

“Every athlete competing at the 2019 Pan American Games commits to terms of eligibility, including to refrain from demonstrations that are political in nature,” USOPC spokesman Mark Jones to Reuters in a statement.

“In this case, Race didn’t adhere to the commitment he made to the organizing committee and the USOPC. We respect his rights to express his viewpoints, but we are disappointed that he chose not to honor his commitment.

“Our leadership are reviewing what consequences may result.”

The USOPC released the identical statement in response to Berry’s protest on Saturday.

It is unknown what discipline Imboden could face but could impact his chances of competing at next year’s Olympics, where protests of a political nature are also banned.

Imboden previously knelt during the anthem at a World Cup event in Egypt in 2017. His protest follows nine-times Olympic champion Carl Lewis branding US president Trump a “racist” and a “misogynist” during a press conference at the Games.

GeneChing

09-24-2019, 03:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJO2moX84UY

THREADS
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Sword hotties (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41007-Sword-hotties)

GeneChing

12-30-2019, 08:24 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoQ8QDgv_rQ

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

01-10-2020, 02:50 PM

IOC makes it clear: Kneeling, raised fists, other protests not allowed at 2020 Olympics (https://sports.yahoo.com/olympics-2020-protests-ioc-rules-kneeling-165728097.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS9ob3Qv&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADdU5TilLheKjBS3ehwGPSJb43az fH7WAj5tKrau-XM4HlVgbN804v_mAKY8NbVBKA_4ZV475l0aQDWh0-pMthNGAfmQvNgwnFcUXGhbwVkKwlAWH9NGKwa4eeFMR_ynM20z UxOTPEghbfAaAh7tjio62LWlTcv4Zu5mgblbMG5a)
Henry Bushnell Yahoo Sports Jan 9, 2020, 8:57 AM

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/YH0PspSwz42LZBmI1WFepQ--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-images/2020-01/8d844bf0-32f7-11ea-b7fb-7b7be1c62d17
American fencer and 2019 Pan American Games gold medalist Race Imboden dropped to a knee during the medal ceremony and the playing of the national anthem in Lima. (Leonardo Fernandez/Getty Images)

Before Thursday, the International Olympic Committee’s stance on protest at the Olympics Games was confined to one sentence in the Olympic Charter. It reeked of ambiguity and invited confusion. What, exactly, qualifies as a protest?

On Thursday, in an effort to keep politics far away from Tokyo 2020, the IOC answered that question with more specificity than ever before.

There will be no kneeling during national anthems.

No raising of fists, à la John Carlos and Tommie Smith at the 1968 Games.

No politically charged signs or armbands.

At least not at any Olympic venue. Not in stadiums or at pools or at a course’s finish line. Not on podiums during medal ceremonies. Not during the opening and closing ceremonies. Not even in the Olympic Village.

And if there is? Discipline of some sort will follow.

The IOC laid out its policy in a three-page document published Thursday, six-and-a-half months before the 2020 Summer Games are set to begin. In what it deemed a “non-exhaustive list” of examples, it specifically mentioned the following as “constitut[ing] a protest, as opposed to expressing views”:

- Displaying any political messaging, including signs or armbands.

- Gestures of a political nature, like a hand gesture or kneeling.

- Refusal to follow the Ceremonies protocol.

The IOC did not specify what the punishment would be for athletes who violate the policy. Instead, it left itself disciplinary leeway. “Each incident will be evaluated by their respective National Olympic Committee, International Federation and the IOC, and disciplinary action will be taken on a case-by-case basis as necessary,” the document reads.

Which, U.S. Olympian Gwen Berry told Yahoo Sports, is “the crazy thing. It’s like, ‘If you do something, you’ll get in trouble, but we won’t tell you what it is.’ It’s just crazy. It’s a form of control.”

More on the IOC’s Olympic protest policy

The IOC document published Thursday clarifies the notorious Rule 50 of the Olympic Charter. “No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas,” the Charter reads.

This past summer and fall, after three-plus years of protests of all kinds across many sports, Olympic officials realized they needed to address the rule’s ambiguity.

This became especially clear after two U.S. athletes staged podium demonstrations during the 2019 Pan American Games. Fencer Race Imboden dropped to a knee during his gold medal ceremony. Berry, a hammer thrower, raised a closed fist during hers.

The USOC, in response, wrote a letter – which was obtained by Yahoo Sports – to the two athletes. USOC CEO Sarah Hirshland formally reprimanded them, and placed them on 12-month probation, but acknowledged that the rules governing protest needed clarification.

"We recognize that we must more clearly define for Team USA athletes what a breach of these rules will mean in the future,” Hirshland wrote. "We are committed to more explicitly defining what the consequences will be for members of Team USA who protest at future Games. ... We also expect to work closely with the International Olympic Committee and International Paralympic Committee to engage in a global discussion on these matters.”

Discussions along those lines have happened, and will continue to happen going forward. Berry, however, told Yahoo Sports she has not been asked to participate in them. (The USOC has not yet commented on the IOC’s newly-released guidelines.)

The 2020 Olympics, of course, will not be an entirely politics-free zone. The IOC did clarify that “press conferences and interviews,” and “digital or traditional media,” are acceptable arenas for free expression. Some athletes, however, feel that restricting free expression is unacceptable.

Athletes respond to IOC president Bach

The IOC’s long-standing argument is that the Olympics should be “politically neutral.” That’s how IOC president Thomas Bach put it in a Jan. 1 open letter.

“The Olympic Games are always a global platform for the athletes and their sporting performances,” Bach wrote. “They are not, and must never be, a platform to advance political or any other potentially divisive ends. We stand firmly against the growing politicization of sport because only in this way can we accomplish our mission to unite the world in peaceful competition. As history has shown, such politicization of sport leads to no result and in the end just deepens existing divisions.”

The counterargument is the one Global Athlete, an international “progressive athlete start-up movement,” made in response to Bach. “Let’s be clear, the Olympic Movement has already politicized sport,” the group said in a statement.

It continued: “To mention a few instances; in PyeongChang the IOC promoted a unified South and North Korean team; the IOC has an observer seat around the United Nations Assembly; the IOC President regularly meets with Heads of States; the Olympic Movement notion of sport autonomy is overshowed by Heads of States also fulfilling roles as heads of National Olympic Committees and heads of IOC Commissions hold Ministerial positions.

“This ship has sailed; the IOC has already politicized sport.”

Responding to the IOC’s new protest policy, which restricts athletes’ politicization of their sports but not the IOC’s own politicization of them, Global Athlete tweeted, “Freedom of expression is a right!”

Berry, on Thursday night, told Yahoo Sports: “We shouldn’t be silenced.” The policy, she said, “definitely is a form of control.”

This contentious conversation will continue into and throughout the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. “It is a fundamental principle that sport is neutral and must be separate from political, religious or any other type of interference,” the document released by the IOC on Thursday reads. That will never be entirely true. But the IOC is determined to protect Olympic competitions themselves from anything that might deter or anger viewers.

– – – – – – –

Henry Bushnell is a features writer for Yahoo Sports. Have a tip? Question? Comment? Email him at henrydbushnell@gmail.com, or follow him on Twitter @HenryBushnell, and on Facebook.

THREADS
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GeneChing

02-18-2020, 10:30 AM

Sabrina Cho was the subject of my aforementioned article Kung Fu, Fencing and Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing&p=1312115#post1312115) in our WINTER 2019 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1446).

USA Fencing (https://www.facebook.com/USAFencing/photos/a.485183609947/10158115594114948/?type=3&theater)
39 mins ·
The women's foil team won 🥈 on Sunday in Moedling for its third straight Junior World Cup medal!

Congrats to Delphine DeVore, Zander Rhodes, Maia Weintraub, Sabrina Cho and coach Elyssa Kleiner!

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/87019704_10158115594119948_5717971264895713280_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=TkR9efaX2UkAX9qrhOx&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=13be5702fb8c8fff252d1c00e182b878&oe=5EBE36F3

GeneChing

03-05-2020, 12:08 PM

A Polish Olympian Aimed to Join Team U.S.A. Things Got Ugly. (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/22/sports/olympics/fencing-poland.html?fbclid=IwAR25VAzJY-CnYbWit4sCPmdmqcyuCqTZW9mYNwJrdzD84QfKz4eR7rrKjoI)
Aleksandra Shelton, a four-time Olympic fencer, grew frustrated by what she considered age and gender discrimination. But when she sought to compete for the United States, Polish officials stood in her way.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/02/24/sports/24JPfencer1-print/merlin_169011888_ebc722e6-71d1-43e1-b897-2ef8a5bd65e6-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Aleksandra Shelton is a former world and European champion.Credit...Mason Trinca for The New York Times

By Jeré Longman
Feb. 23, 2020

As an 11-year-old in Poland, Aleksandra Shelton saw her mother competing in a fencing competition on television. Intrigued by the sport and the allure of also appearing on TV someday, she built a saber fencing career that far surpassed her mother’s aspirations.

A decade later, Shelton won a bronze medal at the 2003 world championships. Then she took gold at the 2004 and 2008 European championships. She has competed in the past four Olympics for Poland. And she anticipated that this summer in Tokyo she would become only the fourth Polish woman — and about the 220th woman worldwide — to participate in five or more Games.

But Shelton, a dual citizen who is married to an American serviceman, encountered what she said was age and gender discrimination from Polish fencing officials after the birth of her first child three years ago. So she made a desperate attempt at nation-switching, hoping to head to her fifth Games as an American. Poland, however, has blocked the change, trapping Shelton between the two countries, leaving her unable as of now to compete in Tokyo for either.

Sandwiched by the heated politics of athletes’ rights and the baroque rules of Olympic eligibility, she is facing the sporting complications that can confront women who become mothers.

“After every storm, there needs to be a sunny day,” Shelton, who turns 38 next month, said in a telephone interview. “But it’s been more than two years of heavy rain.”

Shelton said Polish fencing officials began to reduce support for her once she became pregnant after the 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro. She gave birth to a son in 2017.

“She felt she was an expired product in their eyes,” said Carlos Sayao, Shelton’s Toronto-based lawyer.

Frustrated, Shelton sought a different path to her fifth Olympics, and a chance to win an elusive first medal. She has competed as an American since January 2019. But here the story gets complicated.

To prevent mass nation-hopping, athletes generally must wait three years after changing countries to compete in an Olympic Games, unless they receive a special waiver.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/02/24/sports/24JPfencer2-print/merlin_158066169_8061f1a4-0f93-4ce1-9c4d-54e3715a71bd-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Shelton has competed as an American since January 2019, but doing so in the Olympics is more complicated.
Credit...Tibor Illyes/MTI, via Associated Press

A year ago, the matter seemed all but resolved in Shelton’s favor before combusting in recrimination during the spring and summer. In September, the Polish Olympic Committee declined to grant her an exemption to compete in Tokyo as an American. And since she has already switched national affiliations once, she can’t compete for Poland anymore. The Polish Olympic Committee declined to comment for this article due to an ongoing legal process.

Shelton has appealed her case to the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport, a kind of Supreme Court for international sports. No hearing date has been set, and time is growing short. The United States Olympic fencing team will be chosen in April.

The case has received widespread attention in Poland, where the national federations that govern various sports operate with near-complete autonomy and can exert tremendous control over the careers of athletes.

Internationally, the oversight of sports governing bodies has come under intense scrutiny, including in the United States, where recent sexual abuse scandals have rocked several sports, particularly gymnastics and figure skating. In Poland last fall, Witold Banka, a former sports minister, described the top management of the country’s sports federations as being “like a cancer that is destroying Polish sport.”

Two top officials of the Polish fencing federation said in a joint email that they had not discarded Shelton after she gave birth, but instead had considered her the leader of the Polish women’s saber team heading toward the Tokyo Olympics.

They expressed suspicion that her effort to compete for the United States was rooted in strategy, not unfair treatment, after Poland’s failure to win any medals at the 2018 world fencing championships. The officials — Ryszard Sobczak and Tadeusz Tomaszewski — called Shelton’s accusations “untrue and full of slander.”

Shelton tells a different story. When she became pregnant, she said, Polish fencing officials prevented her from becoming the head saber coach at a prominent club in Warsaw. Their claim, she said, was that she lacked experience, even though she had competed in four Olympics.

Her coach at the time acknowledged in an interview that pregnancy was “a factor” in the decision because the coaching post would have required frequent travel and increased demands on Shelton’s time.
continued next post

GeneChing

03-05-2020, 12:08 PM

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/02/24/sports/24JPfencer3-print/merlin_169011873_0e528789-4703-4ecd-9a2e-4a572a8498cd-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Shelton’s decision to pursue a switch of her national affiliation has cost her competitively and financially.
Credit...Mason Trinca for The New York Times

After Shelton gave birth, she said, the Polish fencing federation reneged on a promise to provide a physiotherapist to help her get back into competitive shape. Officials also declined, she said, to let her continue to train in Portland, Ore., a hub of American fencing, where Shelton has lived part time since 2010.

While nothing was said to her face by fencing officials, Shelton said she heard indirectly from colleagues that the Polish federation felt “I am too old, I should stay at home.”

Eventually, Shelton said, the Polish fencing federation seemed to sabotage her ability to continue competing for the Polish army team, causing her to lose her military retirement benefits. The federation strongly denied this, saying the army team remained available only to fencers still competing internationally for Poland. Broadly speaking, the federation officials wrote in their email that Shelton was attempting to “manipulate the facts to fit her narrative.”

Despite recent struggles, Poland’s 22 Olympic fencing medals (19 won by men, 3 by women) rank seventh among competing nations. Individual and team competitions are held in épée, foil and saber events.

“She is not in a shape that would allow her to compete in individual events, but in the United States she could compete as part of their team,” said Piotr Stroka, who coached Shelton in Warsaw and disagreed with her decision to pursue a nationality switch.

Stroka dismissed claims of discrimination, saying that Polish female fencers are “perhaps treated even better than men.” In Shelton’s case, he said, the federation “did everything it could for her.”

Yet it is not unusual for pregnant women in Olympic sports to find themselves in a disadvantaged position. Nike, for instance, faced withering criticism last year from American track stars sponsored by the company for reducing performance-based payments surrounding the period of childbirth. Facing a backlash, the sportswear giant amended its policy.

In Poland, sports federations in general have also endured searing rebuke. Banka, the former Polish sports minister who is now president of the World Anti-Doping Agency, told a radio interviewer in November that federations there are often “managed by irresponsible people who run them in an unethical way.”

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/02/20/sports/20fencer-4/merlin_169011876_1a31189f-c4eb-47d4-bfbf-ecdf03a7f019-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Shelton in Portland, Ore., where she has trained part time since 2010.
Credit...Mason Trinca for The New York Times

After the 2008 Beijing Olympics, Sylwia Gruchala, a two-time Olympic fencing medalist for Poland, publicly said the country’s fencing federation was incompetent and did not sufficiently support its athletes. After agreeing to an interview for this article, she changed her mind, saying, “I have a good life now and don’t want to start a war.”

Shelton’s case appeared on the verge of an amicable resolution early last year. U.S.A. Fencing and the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee supported her in official requests to switch nationalities. The Polish fencing federation gave her a release for Olympic eligibility as an American. All she needed to become eligible for the Tokyo Games was a final waiver from the Polish Olympic Committee.

But in March, Shelton, feeling exasperated by what she considered foot-dragging, publicly criticized the Polish fencing federation. Among other things, she questioned the ethics of requiring her to agree to pay 43,000 euros, nearly $47,000, in cash or fencing equipment to secure her release.

The Polish federation said the payment was necessary to recover training costs it had incurred for Shelton since the 2016 Olympics. Otherwise, officials said, they would have essentially been subsidizing an American athlete. Hubert Radke, a Polish sports lawyer not involved in the case, said that Polish sports federations impose financial barriers and other regulations that frequently restrict the freedom of athletes. Ultimately, the payment agreement fell apart.

Her comments infuriated Polish fencing officials, and they demanded an apology and threatened to sue Shelton. The fencing federation urged the Polish Olympic Committee not to grant her the release needed to compete for the United States in Tokyo. On Sept. 10, the committee complied. This month, the fencing federation said that Shelton’s behavior was “reprehensible and unworthy of an athlete.”

Shelton said, “They just want to destroy me.”

The uncertainty continues, fair or not.

Radke, the independent sports lawyer, said the matter appeared black and white. “I don’t see any justified reasons to deny her right to compete.”

Joanna Berendt contributed reporting from Warsaw.

THREADS
2020 Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-2020-Tokyo-Olympics)
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GeneChing

03-09-2020, 08:42 AM

Handshaking Rule Suspended at USA Fencing Events (https://www.usafencing.org/news_article/show/1093278)
03/06/2020, 6:30PM CST BY NICOLE JOMANTAS

In response to concerns regarding the spread of coronavirus (COVID-19), the Referees’ Commission has announced the temporary suspension of the section of Rule T.122 which states that fencers must shake hands with their opponent at the conclusion of a bout. Athletes must still perform the fencer’s salute at the start and conclusion of the bout. This action will be in place effective March 7, 2020 for all USA Fencing sanctioned tournaments and will remain until further notice.

Coronavirus Updates (https://www.usafencing.org/coronavirus)

USA Fencing is continuing to monitor the global situation regarding the coronavirus (COVID-19). The top priority for USA Fencing is the safety and well-being of all members and participants in fencing events held both in the United States and abroad.

At this time, the upcoming national and international events scheduled to be held in the United States during the coming months will remain as scheduled. If there are changes to national or international event calendar, updates will be made at www.usafencing.org/coronavirus.

We will continue to follow guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and are working in partnership with the Federation Internationale d’Escrime, the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee and local and state public health authorities in order to create a safe environment for all participants.

Tips for Fencers, Coaches, Staff, etc.

Stay home from practice or competition if you feel sick.
Wash your hands frequently or use hand sanitizer with 60-90% alcohol when restrooms are unavailable.
Avoid direct physical contact with others (keep a six-foot distance when possible).
Salute or elbow bump competitors, coaches and referees rather than shaking hands.
Do not touch your face during a bout or training session.
Do not share water bottles.
Do not put your mouth on water fountains.
Tips for Club Owners and Tournament Organizers

Make sure to have hand sanitizer and tissues in high traffic areas throughout the training or competition space, including near bout committee tables, water dispensers, score tables, etc.
Wash all shared gear and use sanitizng wipes on weapons in between uses. Read tips on how to wash masks.
Keep sanitizing wipes near reels and other frequently touched equipment.
As always, make sure restrooms and locker rooms are properly cleaned on a frequent basis.
Clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces regularly.

The CDC recommends preventative actions regarding respiratory illnesses, including:

Stay home when you are sick.
Avoid close contact with people who are sick.
Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth.
Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash.
Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after going to the bathroom; before eating; and after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing.

If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty.

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GeneChing

04-27-2020, 09:12 AM

Please like & follow STRO: THE MICHAEL D’ASARO STORY:
http://strothemovie.com
http://facebook.com/StrotheMovie
https://twitter.com/StroTheMovie
https://instagram.com/strothemovie
Michael D’Asaro was my fencing coach. This indie documentary is applying to film festivals & can use your support. I have a cameo.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWn2A7uU4AIDRJA?format=jpg&name=large

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GeneChing

05-15-2020, 07:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diJk53SnGcc

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Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

05-22-2020, 09:28 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAN8uahnDn8&feature=emb_logo

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Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

06-02-2020, 07:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSN5vQJ1xQQ

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GeneChing

07-21-2020, 01:18 PM

Fencing, with built-in social distancing, proves ideal sport for coronavirus pandemic (https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200720/fencing-with-built-in-social-distancing-proves-ideal-sport-for-coronavirus-pandemic)
By Allison Ward
The Columbus Dispatch
Posted Jul 20, 2020 at 11:48 AM
Fencers say that the sport might be the ideal activity to do right now as it promotes social distancing.

Like many kids, summer looks a lot different this year for siblings Eleanor and Gavin McClung, who are not allowed to visit public pools, attend large gatherings of friends or go on vacation far from home.

Fortunately, the Upper Arlington sister and brother, 8 and 14 respectively, still have at least one extracurricular activity their parents find safe: fencing.

Masks and gloves are already standard equipment for the sport and some competitors now double up on masks, wearing a cotton one underneath the mesh fencing one, which does not have the same protective effect against COVID-19.

And social distancing? That’s less of a problem for athletes carrying nearly 4-foot-long sabers, epees and foils with the goal of stabbing anyone who comes near them.

“Innately, it’s a little safer,” said the kids’ mother, Becky McClung. “You’re not in each others’ faces all the time and there are those natural barriers.”

In fact, fencing might be one of the safest sports right now, a perk that many clubs across central Ohio and nationwide have touted on social media in recent weeks as they’ve welcomed students back since reopening.

“Fencers try to keep away from each other,” said Stan Prilutsky, head coach at Columbus Fencing & Fitness in Dublin, where the McClungs take lessons. “If you get too close, you’re in trouble.”

Even though the sport boasts built-in barriers to deter the spread of COVID-19 — including that it only involves two athletes — Isabel Alvarez has reopened Profencing in Lewis Center cautiously, following protocols recommended by USA Fencing, the sport’s governing body.

“I have an immune deficiency problem,” she said. “Staying in business, staying well and not getting sick, has been a big effort.”

Finances became extremely tight after nonessential businesses were shut down in the spring, and a slow rebound since it reopened for private lessons has put the academy in jeopardy of shutting its doors for good, Alvarez said. A small Paycheck Protection Program loan and some generous parents who continued paying their children’s fees even when the business was closed have helped her weather the storm so far, she said.

Anyone entering Alvarez’s building is asked to wear a cotton mask, even while fencing, and students aren’t allowed to store their equipment at the facility. She’s taught students how to sanitize their suits — something they should do anyway — and they’ve done away with ceremonial handshakes, following USA Fencing rule changes.

So far, Alvarez said she is only seeing about half her regular students, and many of her summer camps with community centers have been canceled. However, she is still doing a few small camps, starting this month. She hopes to begin offering introductory classes for new students and small-group sessions soon.

“It’s safe to do fencing, and it’s good because the kids need an activity,” Alvarez said. “It challenges the mind and body.”

One of her students, Elise Lemasters of Delaware, who generally prefers bouts with friends and at tournaments, couldn’t wait for her first private class with Alvarez upon returning to the club.

“In the car, I told my dad how excited I was, and I typically don’t like having lessons, but I was looking forward to it,” said the 12-year-old, who is the No. 1 female fencer in Ohio under 13.

Parents at Profencing shared that excitement. Heather Besselman, a mom of four, said she and her two sons who fence, especially 10-year-old Noah, were thrilled when Profencing opened again.

“Noah needed activity,” said Besselman, of Delaware. “It was time, and they’re taking precautions all across the board.”

Her children still haven’t been many places, but she feels they’re safe fencing.

“They’re fully geared up and the chance of saliva going through their mask then through another mask and onto their opponent is slim,” she said.

While wearing two masks is “weird,” Noah said, it’s now “normal.”

Normal is what many of Prilutsky’s students have craved these past few months. About 75% of his 150 or so students are back taking regular private lessons.

While he acknowledged he and other instructors saw some benefits to teaching virtual lessons on Zoom — which focused on technique and footwork — he’s glad to have students back in his 8,000 square-foot facility that boasts 19 fencing strips.

“One student was crying after her first bout because she was so excited to be back,” Prilutsky said. “There’s been an emotional response to getting back to the sport we love.”

Gavin McClung admits he was a bit nervous to come back as he felt out of shape after two months away from the club. But it didn’t take long to fall into a rhythm with familiar faces around him.

“I’ve been excited, too,” the teen said. “There are a lot of people here I haven’t seen in a while.”

award@dispatch.com

@AllisonAWard

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
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GeneChing

08-17-2020, 09:58 PM

STRO: THE MICHAEL D'ASARO STORY (https://burbankfilmfest.festivee.com/stro-the-michael-dasaro-story)
FILMS, SUNDAY | FORIEGN FILMS & DOCUMENTARIES
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Available on 9/13/2020

Michael D'Asaro taught about life through the medium of fencing

Micheal D'Asaro lived a life completely intertwined with the sport of fencing. It provided an avenue for him to escape the poverty of Brooklyn's Redhook district through a fencing scholarship to NYU. He became one of the dominant fencers of his era after coming under the tutelage of a fierce Hungarian Instructor by the name of Csaba Elthes. He made a name for himself internationally as well, fencing against the greats like Nazlimov and Pawlowsky. But D'Asaro always marched to his own beat which brought him into conflict with the governing body of American Fencers. He left the sport as a competitor when he wouldn't compromise to suit what he consider old fashioned codes of behavior. He returned to the sport as a coach in San Francisco purely by happenstance when he was hired to be the new head coach at the Halberstadt Fencer's Club. The only problem was, he had never been formally taught how to coach fencing. But, he taught himself to coach, quickly excelling to the top ranks of United States coaches. He was hired to coach National and International Teams. He achieved his greatest success at San Jose State where he directed the women's foil team to five straight national championships. His San Jose State students formed the basis for several Olympic Squads in the seventies and eighties He cut his college career as a coach short in the mid 1980s. He was burnt out and tired of the college politics. He moved first to Oregon where he opened his own salle, but that only lasted a short while. Ultimately, he moved to Los Angeles where he continued to teach fencing. He passed away in 2001 from an inoperable brain tumor. D'Asaro left an indelible impression on all the people he met. The lessons he passed on are still used today by his students, in fencing as well as in life.

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

09-15-2020, 11:35 AM

En Garde! READ Greg Lynch Jr. on Stro: The Michael D’Asaro Story (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1557) by Gene Ching

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/3574_Stro_Photo3.jpg

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Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

10-05-2020, 09:12 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNE0HrGGjeg

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

11-09-2020, 10:44 AM

'Stro': The story of the world-class SF athlete who tripped with Jerry Garcia (https://www.sfgate.com/movies/article/The-story-of-SF-s-greatest-acid-popping-athlete-15708098.php)
Photo of Dan Gentile
Dan Gentile
SFGATE
Nov. 9, 2020
Updated: Nov. 9, 2020 4 a.m.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/15/11/33/20223731/3/ratio3x2_1000.jpg
Jerry Goldstein Cadillac with Michael D'Asaro on the hood in front of Halberstadt Fencer’s Club, at the original location on Fillmore Street.
Courtesy of Greg Lynch

For most athletes, getting a haircut would be a small price to pay for a trip to the Olympics. But very few athletes cared about their hair, and personal freedom, as much as Michael D’Asaro.

At one point in the 1960s, D’Asaro was perhaps the greatest living American fencer, able to defeat international opponents in all three of the sport's major disciplines (sabre, epee, and foil), an unheard-of achievement that is essentially the football equivalent of playing on offense, defense and special teams. In the fencing world, just like in basketball, everybody wanted to “be like Mike.”

When D’Asaro didn’t have a sword in his hand, he was typically holding a joint instead, indulging in everything San Francisco’s hippie revolution had to offer. He grew a mane like a hippie lion, and when the Olympic committee demanded he trim it in order to join the 1968 fencing team, Greg Lynch, director of the new documentary “Stro: The Michael D’Asaro Story” (screening online this week), says that D'Asaro wasn’t willing to conform.

“He said, ‘No, I don’t think so.’ Or he said, ‘Why don’t you go f—k yourself,’” recounts Lynch.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/15/11/33/20223730/3/1000x0.jpg
Michael D’Asaro in Los Angeles in the 1990s, back to his hippie days.
Courtesy of Greg Lynch

The film, screening this week online through the Ojai Film Festival and Mescalito Biopic Fest, features D’Asaro’s former teammates, students and rivals speaking about his monumental influence on the sport, from his professional career to his latter days as a coach.

Before D’Asaro found himself in San Francisco, his biggest influence came from Hungary. Already an exceptional collegiate talent, D’Asaro came into his own after he began training in 1958 with Hungarian maestro Csaba Elthes (“the dean of American sabre fencing”) from whom he learned a smoother, more fluid style that disrupted the typical rhythm of a match. It led him to big wins, including a fourth place finish on Team USA in the 1960 Rome Olympics, plus a gold medal at the national championships in 1962. Although he was still unknown in the U.S., he became a minor celebrity in Europe, where fencing was a popular enough sport that there were TV networks dedicated to it.

“They thought of him as the Jesus of fencing,” says Lynch. “They’d go after him for autographs. I think he had security since he was so popular.”

At that point in his career, D’Asaro had yet to grow out his signature long hair but had already started indulging in substances, most notably during a match in Warsaw. Due to a horrible hangover, he was seeing double, but when his coach told him to aim for the opponent in the middle, he won the match.

In the documentary, Andy Shaw from the Museum of American Fencing expressed the level of his exceptional talent. “Michael can be asleep and drunk, and still beat anyone in the world,” says Shaw.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/15/11/33/20223732/3/1000x0.jpg
Classic lunge by Michael D’Asaro on the left. A textbook lunge.
Courtesy of Greg Lynch

After a few years competing on the international circuit and a brief period working in the advertising industry, D’Asaro made his way to San Francisco. He qualified for the 1968 Olympics, but after refusing to cut his hair, he temporarily dropped out of the fencing circuit, opting instead to spend his days listening to concerts at Hippie Hill in Golden Gate Park and working at the corner of Haight Street and Ashbury selling copies of the Berkeley Barb newspaper for a quarter.

When an instructor at the Halberstadt Fencing Club on Fillmore Street learned that D’Asaro lived in San Francisco, he was recruited as a coach. It began a second phase of his career, in which he was one of the most in-demand and unconventional fencing instructors in the world and returned to professional competitions. He became known as "Stro," short for maestro, the traditional term of fencing coach. During his years in San Francisco, he was a cross between a tyrant and spiritual advisor, assigning rigorous training exercises but also handing out bags of mushrooms for students to experiment with outside the gym.

“Michael was a very spiritual guy. As people in the film point out, he was their guru, and he was charting paths to new realms. And the drugs unlocked a lot of things to help him get to those places …” says Lynch. “To make a bad joke, it was a two-edged sword for Michael. It helped him, he enjoyed it, but it was kind of his downfall as well.”

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/15/11/33/20223729/3/1000x0.jpg
Michael D’Asaro standing in the center in the back at the Halberstadt fencing club. Three-time national foil champion Harriet King is demonstrating the lunge. She won two championships under D’Asaro’s coaching.
Courtesy of Greg Lynch

Although D'Asaro's methods were strange, they worked, with several of his students earning places on the U.S. Olympic Team. After leaving Halberstadt, he went on to teach at San Jose State, where he led the women’s fencing program with the same rigor. He then married one of his students and retreated to a remote home in the woods in Oregon, but his spirit never really left San Francisco, and he had trouble settling into a calmer life, eventually leading to the end of his marriage. He struggled with colon cancer and a brain tumor that affected his coordination to the point where he could barely walk, but he remained teaching until his final days.

In December of 2000, he died of a brain aneurysm, but his legacy has been cemented in the fencing world as one of the greatest to ever hold a sabre.

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

11-11-2020, 09:06 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nURzyqcKv0A

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

11-16-2020, 05:28 PM

When the SJSU Fencing program was cancelled in my Junior year, I tried to transfer to Stanford.

Didn't work. :mad:

Ex-fencing coach, telecom CEO face charges in $1.5 million bribery scheme to get kids into Harvard (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-fencing-coach-telecom-ceo-charged-1-5-million-bribery-n1247947)
The former Harvard coach allegedly took the bribes to secure the admission of the executive's children to the Ivy League school as fencing recruits.
https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2020_47/3428767/201116-peter-brand-fencing-jm-1601_485859984ff29e697b9efbebeb6e2c17.fit-1240w.jpg
Head coach Peter Brand talks to Veronica Czyzewski of Harvard as she competes against Karolina Cieslar of St. John's in the Saber semi finals during the Division I Women's Fencing Championship in Cleveland on March 24, 2019.Jason Miller / NCAA Photos via Getty Images file
Nov. 16, 2020, 3:17 PM PST
By Tim Stelloh

A former top fencing coach at Harvard University and a telecommunications executive were arrested Monday in an alleged bribery scheme involving the school's fencing team, federal authorities said.

Peter Brand, 67, and Jie “Jack” Zhao, 61, face charges of conspiracy to commit federal programs bribery, the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Massachusetts said.

Brand allegedly secured admissions for Zhao’s two children to Harvard as fencing recruits in exchange for more than $1.5 million in bribes, the office said in a statement.

The charges were filed more than a year after the Boston Globe first reported that Zhao bought Brand’s home in Needham, southwest of Boston, for nearly $1 million, or $440,000 above its assessed value.

On Sept. 29, 2016, nearly five months after the sale, Zhao’s younger son received a letter from Harvard saying he was likely to be accepted as a fencing recruit, according to a criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Massachusetts.

The sale prompted an inspection from the local assessor, who wrote in his notes that it “makes no sense,” according to the documents.

Zhao, CEO of a telecom company who lives in Maryland, allegedly made another series of payments to Brand in 2015 that covered school loans for his children and their tuition at Penn State University. He also paid Brand’s water, sewer and mortgage bills, and gave him a $34,563 car loan, the documents say.

Those payments came after Zhao’s older son was also admitted to Harvard as a fencing recruit in 2013. According to the documents, Zhao contributed $1 million to a fencing charity, which then paid $100,000 to a foundation that Brand and his wife had recently established.

The documents say the scheme began after Brand and his wife were struggling to pay bills.

Harvard fired Brand in 2019 after the Globe reported on the home sale. The school’s athletic director said he had violated the university's conflict of interest policy.

In a statement Monday, Brand’s lawyer described Zhao’s children as “academic and fencing stars” and said the former coach had done nothing wrong in the admissions process.

Zhao’s lawyer, Bill Weinreb, said that Zhao “adamantly denies the charges and will vigorously contest them in court.”

Neither have entered a plea.

The charges come more than a year after federal prosecutors in Massachusetts announced charges in a sprawling scheme — uncovered in an investigation dubbed Operation Varsity Blues — that targeted dozens of wealthy parents who secured admissions for their children to elite universities through a for-profit college prep counselor, Rick Singer. Among those caught in the scam were actors Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman.

The charges against Zhao and Brand are separate from Operation Varsity Blues.

U.S. Attorney for Massachusetts Andrew Lelling called the charges announced Monday as “part of our long-standing effort to expose and deter corruption in college admissions.”

Tim Stelloh
Tim Stelloh is a reporter for NBC News based in California.

GeneChing

04-15-2021, 11:27 AM

Free for Amazon Prime subscribers (https://www.amazon.com/Stro-Michael-DAsaro-Gene-Ching/dp/B08VWZG7K8/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=stro&qid=1618511124&s=instant-video&sr=1-1).

THREADS
Stro (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70725-Stro)
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GeneChing

07-12-2021, 09:28 AM

https://media.gq.com/photos/60df5988502abac5b2048118/16:9/w_2560%2Cc_limit/story-427679_9378_04-1-5new.jpg

On Guard: Curtis McDowald Is Fighting His Way to the Top of the Fencing World (https://www.gq.com/story/curtis-mcdowald-olympic-fencing-profile)
The 25-year-old Olympian is an electric presence in competition—and dead set on shaking up a stodgy, conservative sport outside of it.
BY BRADFORD WILLIAM DAVIS

PHOTOGRAPHY BY DANA SCRUGGS

July 6, 2021

New York’s Fencer’s Club is giving country club, with all that entails. The brand-new midtown Manhattan facility has blindingly white walls and pristine rows of lockers in plain view of the padded floors where practice takes place. A discreet dumbbell rack sits outside the glass windows of a large conference room, just in case you need to take a work call between your drop sets. And maybe it’s just the cloth mask I’m wearing, but for a gym that hosts routine Olympic mini-camps ahead of the Tokyo Games, the place smells neutral. Maybe even...pleasant?

Curtis McDowald, the first-time Olympic fencer, confirms my suspicion—that something is just a little off at his training grounds. “A lot of these characters, they want the club to be like Planet Fitness,” he says in between tune-up bouts. “This the Fencer’s Club? Or the Planet Fitness club?”

McDowald brings the grit, passion, and personality the rest of the joint misses. The lithe six-footer dominates not only within the strip—the narrow rectangular space where fencers battle—but well beyond it, overwhelming the club and the sport with his presence. He’s the type of dude who’ll bet his Rolex on Instagram before an Olympic qualifier against a favored opponent, just in case the stakes weren’t already high enough. (Curtis won the match; his opponent, Marco Fischera, declined to take the bet.) Or to start a cryptocurrency—let him know if you want in on $CURT.

But right now, the 25-year-old is mowing down sparring partners, the latest a recent Northwestern standout named Pauline Hamilton, then afterward explaining exactly what he’s doing.

https://media.gq.com/photos/60cb536918480638c840c831/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/427679_9382_08-2-6.jpg
There are three types of fencing, each defined by its blade: foil, sabre, and Curtis’ discipline, épée. The longest and heaviest of the three blades, épée fencing also distinguishes between the others by allowing fencers to use the tip of their weapon to make contact with any part of their opponent’s body to score a point. Because your entire body is a target instead of just the torso (foil) or upper half above the waist (sabre), épeé emphasizes a particularly methodical, harnessed approach to offense, where cunning must be married to raw athleticism, lest you leave yourself exposed.

“She's making a fake attack, and I'm just, kind of like, pretending it scares me. I'm like, Oh look!" Curtis says. “You know, in martial arts, the game of it…is deception. So if I make you believe that you're doing something correct, and you find out at the end result, you're wrong, you've been deceived.”

“You have to assume that...OK, if you didn't create the trap, that I made a trap for you.”

Beyond the strategizing—he counts The Art of War as one of the most important books in his development—he’s also performing, clowning his opponents out of their protective vests. Trash talk is followed by pep talk—he’s a mentor to many of the younger fencers, especially the Black ones—then more trash talk for the rematch. Fencer’s Club isn’t home, but he’s conquering it anyway.

Towards the end of his bout with Pauline, Curtis stretches his arms completely out of his stance, daring his opponent to thrust at him—the fencer’s equivalent, say, of a matador waving his bright red flag at a charging bull.

Pauline tries her best. Curtis parries, slashes back, and scores the point.

Then, he rips off his protective helmet and lets out a roar that resounds in every pocket of the club—the kind of noise that might make Curtis the most exciting young fencer in a generation, but that also draws the ire of the sport’s old guard, crusty fans of an ancient, insular sport. Now, fencing at its highest level is full of emotion like any sport, and Curtis is far from the first to bicker with a referee when he thinks they blew it. But Curtis’ heightened intensity is a blessing.

https://media.gq.com/photos/60cb536af1da6f59930e7c90/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/427679_9384_03-2.jpg
To me, Curtis’s YouTube clips seem like they should be highlight reels, but the comments about his exuberance on the strip and banter with the referees that appear beneath put me in the minority. One commenter fears the South Jamaica, Queens product will make the sport “Go the way of the NBA”—no euphemism here—“full of disrespectful trash players.” Another expresses his pride in—seriously—“the refs for standing up to him.” Where else have you ever seen fans identify with the refs more than the players?

But this is fencing, where being a Black man in a white sport, and a demonstrative guy in a quiet one, interlock into a sort of existential affront to fencing’s stodgy culture. Maybe in an alternate universe, he’s a fiery competitor like Russell Westbrook. Here, he’s Curtis, the surly malcontent.

His intensity and showmanship are unique and defining traits, but Curtis explains that his approach—the one that has him ranked second in the US and 27th worldwide, and with a ticket booked to Tokyo for this summer’s Olympics—is a required part of his process.

“You got to treat your practice like a competition,” Curtis tells me when I ask about the screams and the showmanship. “A lot of people are afraid. They think, if I practice the same way, people will learn and you'll see my moves. But that's martial arts.”

“Why is (Curtis) so animated? I mean, he's a killer!” says Jake Hoyle, currently America’s top-ranked men’s épéeist and Curtis’ teammate. “Like, when you fence against him, he's trying to beat you 15-zero, every time. Like, he's not giving you any ground and he fences in practice like you would in a competition.”

Later on I ask Ben Bratton, one of Curtis’ mentors in fencing and the first African-American épeéist to win a world championship title with Team USA, a version of the same question: would Curtis be dealing with this kind of critique if he were white?

“No.” Bratton says, flatly. “But I'll also say that I think if Curtis was white, I don't even think he has to do that,” referring to the psych-up exuberance his mentee takes to the strip. “Curtis is weaponizing something that I think as a Black athlete, we can use: the ability to make your opponents, oftentimes white, uncomfortable by your power as a Black man. He's doing something that is exclusive to us.”

“A lot of people don't like it,” Hoyle says. “I don't know what the big deal is. What's the problem if he's yelling at practice? People are like, Oh, it's disturbing practice…it's obnoxious. But I don't see it like that.”

“You can be silent and your body language says “he’s a total *******.” And I think you can, like, respectfully scream,” says Pauline—again, one of the people he thoroughly beat. “A lot of people are not so happy with Curtis. But, you know he's a lot nicer than some of the people with good reputations.”

As Curtis continues dominating his way through practice, I take a seat on a bench near the conference room. An older woman approaches, joining two other middle-aged recreationists, with a complaint.

She rips her mask and protective gear off, and loudly proclaims: “He's screaming his ****ing head off!” She may be nearly as animated as Curtis, but the men nod along, similarly miffed that his quest for gold is tarnishing their weekly group aerobics class.

Every trait Curtis has cultivated may make him an Olympian. It also makes him a target. continued next post

GeneChing

07-12-2021, 09:30 AM

https://media.gq.com/photos/60cb5365502abac5b2047cdb/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/427679_9379_03-1-3.jpg

Demetria Goodwin’s friends swore her tall, slender boys would play basketball. She had other ideas.

“That was always the first thing that came out of people's mouths. I'm like, ‘No, nah. He swims,” she’d say, referring to Miller, her youngest.

“And he's a fencer," she’d insist of Curtis.

"Fencer?" A question her friends and neighbors would ask, usually twice just to make sure. “Oh, with the swords?” Demetria recalls, her thick Queens accent pulling out the silent “w.”

We’re chatting at a midtown diner— as a Queens native, I’d offered to meet her in her hood, but she enjoys being a brisk walk from where Curtis used to make his weekly trips to fencing practice, back when she was raising him as a single mom driving in on her days off from her busy schedule working on Rikers Island.

Demetria wasn’t joking, so when he was 12, she signed him up for the Peter Westbrook Foundation, a nonprofit founded by the first Black fencer to win an Olympic medal for Team USA. Curtis didn’t need much persuading, quickly realizing he’d rather seek fights on the strip instead of dodging them between classes at his Hollis, Queens middle school—one of three housed in the same building.

“I used to get my ass whipped over there, like all the time,” Curtis recalls. “I got my ass whooped so bad, the last day [of school] they just graduated me,” even though a mixup meant he’d missed nearly a third of seventh grade after getting hit by a car and jumped by the passengers.

It didn’t end there. “I. Cannot. Make. This. ****. Up.” Curtis tells me. The same crew rolled up to him three years later. This time, it wasn’t a beatdown, it was a drive-by.

“I'm looking at this car, and, Oh, Bentley in the hood is what I'm thinking. Then, this mother****er is driving fast...comes out in a power slide right, and I'm like, He look like he's got a gun or some ****.”

Shots were fired. Hunched under a mailbox, Curtis realized: “I'm leaving everything in the hood behind me.”

Fortunately, his fencing was already forging a path ahead. Curtis showed immediate promise, and older, accomplished fencers like Bratton quickly took notice of not just his physical gifts, but his diligence. Bratton remembers Curtis replicating the fundamentals world-class fencers twice his age practiced, studying his own moves in the mirror, far away from the other tweens.

https://media.gq.com/photos/60cb53653d607a4b2eb61a19/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/427679_9380_01-1-3-2grn2.jpg

“Most people follow the system that they're put into,” he says. “But Curtis had enough insight even at that young an age, to assess his environment, what people were doing that were in a space that he wanted to be in and start doing it.”

But the wealthy, white culture sustaining his trade? Well, he’s still figuring that out, playing defense at all times like he’s down to his final point.

There was the time, Curtis says, he borrowed an equipment bag, one that couldn’t have cost more than $50 at the time, from the Club’s lost and found—a common practice among the boys at the Peter Westbrook Foundation, and anyway, he was late for a competition. His friend returned it, along with both of their blades, the next day, only for the club to inform him that the bag belonged to Miles Chamley-Watson, the foil fencer who would go on to win bronze in Rio de Janiero in 2016. Returning the bag intact to Chamley-Watson wasn’t enough for the club, nor was the apology Curtis was ordered to write to Miles and the Club’s board of directors. Nor was being reprimanded in front of the younger fencers Curtis was beginning to mentor, Fencer’s Club intent to teach its impressionable PWF kids that the Black-on-Black crime doesn’t pay.

The Club suspended Curtis for a year, and ordered him to replace Miles’ bag with a brand new set—Curtis estimates it cost him $400—if he wanted to be reinstated. He was 14.

Though Philippe Bennett wasn’t on the club’s board when Curtis was suspended, the current chair regrets the club's punitive actions, and goes out of his way to defend Curtis’ approach.

“(Curtis is) undaunted....He's definitely someone who we know that when you're on the strip, you've got yourself a true competitor. That's all he can do and I wish him the best.”

Bennett believes “a lot has evolved” at the Fencer’s Club, citing the club’s diversity statistics, the work of its DE&I committee, and the persistent presence of elite fencers of color like Curtis, as evidence that it's become a more inclusive institution.

(When I asked Curtis if the club was inclusive, his response was straightforward: “Hell no.”)

When Demetria learned her son was being suspended and fined, she wondered: “Are we trying to punish him? Or are we trying to correct him?" As a veteran of Rikers, she knew “the difference between I'm punishing you, and I'm gonna correct you so that you don't do it again.” It was clear the club couldn’t—or wouldn’t—draw the same distinction.

After Fencer’s Club threw him off the strip, Bratton gathered some of the other fencers—Adam Rodney, Dwight Smith, and Donovan Holtz—and brought Curtis to a nearby Starbucks on 28th and 7th in Chelsea.

“Most athletes who end up in that situation—they never come back from it,” Bratton told Curtis. “It’s almost like a death sentence.”

Ben’s advice: don’t let it be yours. “I basically challenged him to be the first to come back stronger and to not let it beat him down.”

After Curtis’ mom paid his fine and he did his time, he came back to the club, worked his way to a full scholarship from St. John’s University’s well-regarded fencing program, and was rated All-American in men’s épée twice. Somewhere in between St. John’s and Tokyo, Curtis developed a world-class flèche—an explosive running thrust where he shifts his body downward to surprise his opponent before striking upward for a point. His signature move marries his athleticism, aggression and deceptiveness.

Still, his brush with disaster has stuck with him. In conversation, even when discussing the beatdowns and drive-bys, Curtis’ voice has notes of nostalgia and amusement, a wistful “deadass, bro” punctuating every hair-raising hood testimony, along with a beaming smile not even his paper mask can cover. But the Fencer’s Club suspension? There was no silver lining.

"I just genuinely thought, like, Man, maybe I'm a bad person?” he says. "I'm really ****ing up.” It had confirmed for him a frustrating truth: that, despite his best efforts, and despite his all-world talent, he might not ever be fully accepted by the sport he loved, embraced by the institution he had given so much to.

“I'm starting to understand, like, no. The punishments that I receive—it's just never going to be proportionate to the crime that I actually make. And when I watch other kids do certain things, or my white counterparts? Slap on the wrist. That was my real first understanding of [how] people are going to look at me when I do certain things. And I'm not going to get the benefit of the doubt.”

For Curtis, it led to a somber epiphany, one that could come only from trading the predictable dangers of his all-Black school and community for the fickle embrace of a white institution: “I need to think how it looks first, rather than doing the right thing. Because doing the right thing can get me in trouble.” continued next post

GeneChing

07-12-2021, 09:31 AM

https://media.gq.com/photos/60cb53693d607a4b2eb61a1b/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/427679_9383_03-1-3.jpg
“How many good African-American fencers are there?” Curtis asks me.

To start, I say, there’s Ibtihaj Muhammad, the star of the 2016 games, who won bronze while competing in hijab. Daryl Homer, the men’s sabreist, won silver five years ago and will compete again this year. And on Curtis’ own épeé team is Yeisser Ramirez, a sturdy Cuban American whose ferocity on the strip and Charizard wingspan helped him clinch him a spot. In other words, Curtis is just the latest character in a burgeoning movement of elite Black fencers competing on the sport’s most prominent stage.

“I'm not rare,” Curtis says. “I'm really not.” That may read triumphant—the Black fencer, no longer a rarity!—but Curtis sounds exasperated. I don’t blame him.

I met Curtis last year, in my capacity as a New York Daily News sports columnist. I wish I could say it was because of his prodigious fencing talent, or that we naturally found each other as fellow loudmouths from Queens. Instead, I got a tip that one of Curtis’s former St. Johns University coaches had told his Fencer’s Club students that Abraham Lincoln “made a mistake” when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

My reporting bore it out: last June, Ukranian-born Boris Vaksman told his students over Zoom that Lincoln had screwed up “because they”— ahem, ahem—“don’t want to work. They steal, they kill, they [do] drugs.” (He also clarified that it was only the “majority” of African-Americans responsible for such behavior.) That initially earned Vaksman a two-month suspension from the Fencer’s Club. After I wrote about the story, in conjunction with prominent fencers leaking the audio of Vaksman’s remarks, the club terminated his contract. USA Fencing then suspended him for two years.

ADVERTISEMENT

Reporting on Boris was a crash course in what young, gifted, and Black fencers like Curtis endure. Team USA’s solid quorum of Black fencers are exceptional athletes on their own merits—but even more so when you understand that because they are Black fencers, they are exceptions. Their existence is proof not just of their athletic excellence, but of their triumph over a system designed to keep them out.

It’s not just the racist coaches, though one can only imagine how many would-be fencers have quit rather than face the abuse. According to Fencing Parents, an independently published blog written for families interested in the sport, competitive youth fencing can cost between $20,000 and $40,000 a year. If you understand, generally, where wealth is concentrated in this country—which families hope to earn $40k a year and which can blow that amount on a hobby—then the lack of Black fencers should not surprise you. Curtis’ mother, Demetria, said Curtis’s training got pricey “to the point where I didn't even want to know the amount.”

“It’s a shame that I never actually did the budget-budget for it. Cause if I woulda done the budget, he might not have been fencing.” She’s joking, I think.

Later—nearly midnight, after he’s finished a private coaching session—Curtis still wants to talk, so he asks another question: “Over the last 20 years, there's been a lot of really good African American fencers. But how many African American coaches are there?”

I didn’t have the answer offhand, but I knew: not many.

The glaring lack of Black coaches, Curtis explained, is “because they're being iced out of the opportunity...They're being told, ‘Oh, if you want to work here, you have to get a degree in coaching from Europe.’”

I don’t know much about fencing; I can’t tell you how important European experience is for aspiring Black fencing coaches. But I do know other things.

As a baseball reporter, I have seen what happens when a sport’s exorbitant costs at the youth level close the door on American-born Black talent. I know what happens when there’s a near-complete absence of Black people working in leadership, both in coaching and front offices, across an entire organization. I’ve listened to broadcasters ridicule Marcus Stroman for wearing a du-rag under his ball cap. I’ve been at the center of national dialogues sparked by Fernando Tatis Jr committing the mortal sin of swinging at a hittable pitch, and by Tim Anderson’s decision, fresh off getting drilled by a fastball to his ass, to emote in a cultural context the league suspended him for, even as they proudly appropriate it with ignorant, hip-hop shaded marketing. And I can confirm that the press box—where I am frequently the only credentialed Black person present, and as such, have my presence challenged by colleagues and double-checked by stadium security—is no different than the field.

So, yeah, in a roundabout way, I know something about fencing.

But I also know that Curtis is still Curtis, in spite of the different rules Black people face. Or maybe, because of them.

“Look, you're a black man— you understand this,” he tells me as we leave the club towards Penn Station. “We walk around dealing with a certain level of perpetual pressure (that) white people don't understand.”

“I'm very confident in the technical and tactical strategies, but...there's a psychological level I can go above them. Because I don't have the same fears.”

The way Curtis embraces the deeper, existential pressures he faces reminds me of our earlier chat about traps on the fencing strip. Not because trying to score a point in épée and navigating the varied, systemic, and interlocking burdens of institutionalized racism are comparable, but because they aren't. You ain’t seen what he, or Ibtihaj, or Yeisser, Nzingha Prescod, or Darryl or Ben or especially Peter Westbrook has seen. But, since he’s seen what you ain’t, the moment the match becomes a mind game, Curtis is already in his bag.

And yes, he owns it.

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)

mawali

07-12-2021, 01:22 PM

It is great to see US Americans of all hues represented in international competition(s)!
Many are not knowledgeable with "black' people being part of what may be termed a fencing Renaissance but here are some figures:
1. Peter Westbrook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Westbrook USA Olympian
2, Guess who wrote the Count of Monte Cristo: Alexandre Dumas: aka Davy de la Pailletaire, Haitian-French origin
3. Chevallier de St George: Fencer and classical composer
4. Laura Elodie Flessel-Colovic Guadeloupe/France/EUrope

GeneChing

07-13-2021, 09:45 AM

fencing (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/fencing)
archery (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/archery)
boxing (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/boxing)
wrestling (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/wrestling)
judo (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/judo)
taekwondo (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/taekwondo)
karate (https://www.nbcolympics.com/schedule/sport/karate)

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Archery (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?66419-Archery)
Boxing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54079-Boxing)
Wrestling (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?58216-Wrestling)
Judo (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?42938-Judo)
Taekwondo (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?42906-Tae-Kwon-Do)
Karate (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?10141-Karate)
Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)

GeneChing

07-25-2021, 11:25 AM

Olympic fencing: Lee Kiefer wins USA's first-ever gold in individual foil (https://sports.yahoo.com/olympic-fencing-lee-kiefer-wins-us-as-first-ever-gold-in-individual-foil-122759143.html)
Jay Busbee
Sun, July 25, 2021, 5:27 AM·1 min read
In this article:

Fencing has been a part of the Olympic program ever since the modern incarnation of the Games began in 1896. In that time, no American had ever won gold in fencing's individual foil discipline ... until now.

Team USA's Lee Kiefer defeated Inna Derglazova (ROC) 15-13 to claim gold, triumphing in a tightly-fought match in which she mostly led, but never comfortably.

Deriglazova, who won gold in the event in Rio, battled back from multiple deficits to close to within 14-13, but Kiefer was able to hold on for the final point. This marks only the third Olympic gold for the United States in fencing. Mariel Zagunis won in saber at both the 2004 and 2008 Olympics.

Kiefer, a graduate of Notre Dame aligned with the Bluegrass Fencers' Club in Lexington, Kentucky, is a decorated victor, a four-time NCAA champion and a nine-time individual Pan American champion. She finished fifth in the event in the 2012 Olympics, and 10th at the 2016 Olympics.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/cezdOZcz_zSweiIUpiT44Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MC4xNTQ4NTExOT c2NzcyO2NmPXdlYnA-/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2021-07/d7ef9800-ed42-11eb-9ba6-c09d5f4c7c85
Lee Kiefer celebrates the first individual foil Olympic gold medal in American history. (Elsa/Getty Images)

_____

Jay Busbee is a writer for Yahoo Sports. Follow him on Twitter at @jaybusbee or contact him at jay.busbee@yahoo.com.

Then all they got to do to get Wushu in the Olympics is change the dresscode to be more like that of ice-skaters... Honestly, YinOrYan - have you seen competition Wushu uniforms lately? We crossed that bridge years ago...:p

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)

GeneChing

07-27-2021, 07:43 AM

Sad to hear this. Greg was on the SJSU team one generation before me.

Olympic dream derailed: Stanford fencer Massialas spends days in COVID isolation, loses 1st match (https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/article/Olympic-dream-derailed-Stanford-fencer-Massialas-16339259.php)
Ann Killion
Updated: July 25, 2021 11:03 p.m.

San Francisco fencer Alexander Massialas lost his first Olympic match Monday, ending his dreams of adding another Olympic medal to his collection and continuing a nightmarish week due to COVID-19 protocols.
Massialas spent the past eight days quarantined in a hotel, apart from his teammates in the Olympic village. He was placed into contact tracing due to being seated on his flight to Japan near beach volleyball player Taylor Crabb, who tested positive for COVID-19 and had to withdraw from the Games last week.
Crabb, who said he is vaccinated, has remained in quarantine at his hotel.
Massialas, who is vaccinated and continues to test negative, was quarantined completely for three days and then allowed to only do certain kinds of limited training, but not be near any of his teammates.
“I’m obviously really disappointed,” said Massialas by Facetime after his loss to Germany’s Peter Joppich. “I’ve been trying to stay positive and make the best of a bad situation.”
But his father Greg, a former Olympic fencer, and a coach for the fencing team, thinks the week took its toll on his son.
“He’s been locked up in isolation and I think it got to him,” Greg said.
The ordeal started after Massialas landed in Tokyo and was held for 12 hours at the airport. He was taken to a quarantine hotel and stayed there for three days. Then he was transferred to another hotel, where more of Team USA is staying, but remained under strict protocols.
The three-time Olympian, who won a silver individual medal and a bronze team medal in Rio, spent much of the week wondering if he would be able to compete at all. He finally received clearance to compete in his foil match on Monday a few days ago. But he was unable to train with his teammates.
After the disappointment, he is looking toward Sunday’s team competition. He hopes by then, he will have been cleared to move into the village.
“Everyone’s flying blind - there’s not a lot of clarity,” Massialas said. “But the best athletes have the shortest memories. I’ll take some time to be upset and sad but then I’ll look forward to winning gold with my teammates.”
Massialas qualified for Tokyo several weeks before the Games were postponed. He spent 2020 training in his parents’ San Francisco home and working to save Stanford sports, including fencing. He was a key member of “36 Sports Strong” the Stanford alumni group that successfully fought to overturn the university’s decision to drop 11 sports.
Ranked fifth in the world, Massialas had hopes for gold at his third Olympics. He also looked forward to sharing the experience with his younger sister Sabrina, who is on her first Olympic team. He had hoped to walk in opening ceremonies with her and hang out in the village. Instead, Monday was the first time he saw her.
“I’m trying to get her to enjoy the moment, because this is something she’s dreamed of for a long time,” Massialas said. “Sometimes life throws something at you that you didn’t expect.”
Though Crabb was vaccinated and is apparently a breakthrough case, Massialas wishes that all his teammates were vaccinated because he’s an example of exactly what’s at risk. Close to 100 U.S. Olympians are unvaccinated, according to the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee. All are rolling the dice with not only their own Olympic dreams but those of their teammates.
“It’s definitely perplexing,” said Massialas, who added that the entire fencing team is vaccinated. “I like to think about my teammates and whether or not I’m putting them in a dangerous situation. I don’t want to hurt them in any way.”
Massialas’ five-year dream was derailed by the seat he was assigned on an airplane.
“Sometimes you get unlucky in life,” he said. “But at least I got to compete. And I will try to help my team win.”
Massialas’ teammate Gerek Meinhardt, another San Francisco native, also lost his first match on Monday. His potential pre-match distraction was for a far happier reason than Massialas. His wife Lee Kiefer won gold in individual foil on Sunday. The married fencers are both in medical school at the University of Kentucky.
“I think he had a really emotional, wonderful day and was a little bit drained,” said Greg Massialas.
The men’s team event will take place on August 1.

Ann Killion is a San Francisco Chronicle columnist. Email: akillion@sfchronicle.comTwitter: @annkillion

threads
Tokyo-Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

Uh, can you point me some good examples??? If so, beach volleyball dresscode is the next level, then the Americans may score better with all the young judges, since older experienced judges are not allowed for wushu, ha ha srsly? Have you watched any world competition Wushu in the last half decade? It's not quite as sequined and embroidered as ice skaters yet, but it's aspiring to be so. It's definitely moving that direction.

YinOrYan

07-27-2021, 08:05 AM

srsly? Have you watched any world competition Wushu in the last half decade? It's not quite as sequined and embroidered as ice skaters yet, but it's aspiring to be so. It's definitely moving that direction.

No I have not seen any Wushu in mini-skirts and bare midriffs. Like that girl-group out of Vegas that would do kung fu demos to the latest dance tunes. Do you remember the Violent Femmes?

GeneChing

07-30-2021, 01:02 PM

US fencers wear pink masks after teammate accused of sexual misconduct (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/30/us-fencers-wear-pink-masks-alex-hadzic-olympics?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1)
Fencing team reportedly object to teammate’s place on team
Alen Hadzic denies allegations against him
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7ec9c244bc0317c40d2c52a90ffc45447338c090/0_8_8640_5184/master/8640.jpg
The US men’s épée team lost to Japan on Friday. Photograph: Hassan Ammar/AP
Guardian sport
Fri 30 Jul 2021 10.41 EDT

Three members of the United States Olympic men’s épée team wore pink masks on Friday amid allegations their teammate is guilty of sexual misconduct.

Jake Hoyle, Curtis McDowald and Yeisser Ramirez all wore pink facemasks before the start of the competition. Alex Hadzic, who has been accused of sexual assault, was the only member of the team who did not.

Hadzic qualified for the Tokyo Games in May. Shortly afterwards, three women accused him of sexual impropriety in incidents that occurred from 2013 to 2015. Hadzic’s attorney, Michael Palma, told the New York Times the fencer was innocent of all allegations. He did confirm that Hadzic was suspended from Columbia University for the 2013-14 school year after an investigation involving sexual consent.

In the wake of the allegations, the US Center for SafeSport suspended the 29-year-old from all fencing activities on 2 June. Hadzic appealed that suspension and won. The arbitrator ruled Hadzic should not contact his accusers while saying his suspension had been “inappropriate to the allegations”. However, he travelled to Tokyo separately from his teammates and had to stay in a hotel away from the athletes’ village.

While Hoyle, McDowald and Ramirez’s facemasks were an apparent rebuke of Hadzic they did not comment verbally on the matter on Friday. One of Hadzic’s teammates, Katharine Holmes, says she collected electronic signatures from every member of the fencing team objecting to Hadzic’s inclusion at the Olympics. Palma has distributed a letter of objection from Holmes, which includes only her written signature.

Hadzic was an alternate on the US team and did not compete. The US men’s épée team lost to Japan on Friday, ending their Olympic campaign.

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)
metoo-(An-Open-Secret-Hollywood-Please-Watch) (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70520-metoo-(An-Open-Secret-Hollywood-Please-Watch))

GeneChing

07-30-2021, 01:06 PM

No I have not seen any Wushu in mini-skirts and bare midriffs. Like that girl-group out of Vegas that would do kung fu demos to the latest dance tunes. Do you remember the Violent Femmes?

Fair. I was referring to the sequins and embroidery. Sequins on Kung Fu uniforms? Srsly? It's not as bad as some of the outfits worn at Sport Karate tournaments...yet.

GeneChing

08-16-2021, 02:54 PM

I didn't know Coach Leach but I knew of him. My friends in the fencing circles have been posting memorials - they're shocked and heartbroken.

Olympic Team Coach Buckie Leach Passes Away (https://www.usafencing.org/news_article/show/1178807)
08/15/2021, 6:15PM CDTBY NICOLE JOMANTAS

https://cdn4.sportngin.com/attachments/photo/42f7-162341179/IMG_8273.jpeg
Coach Buckie Leach at the 2019 Senior World Championships with Nzingha Prescod, Jackie Dubrovich, Nicole Prescod and Lee Kiefer after the team's bronze medal win.
https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/text_block/7154-162341749/SFA_0038_copia_large.jpg
Five-time Olympic Coach Buckie Leach.
(Colorado Springs, Colo.) – USA Fencing is heartbroken at the loss of Anthony “Buckie” Leach (Mt. Sinai, N.Y.) – one of the sport’s longtime Olympic coaches who led the U.S. Women’s Foil Team at the 1996, 2000, 2004, 2016 and 2020 Olympic Games.

A 2013 inductee into the USA Fencing Hall of Fame, Leach passed away on Saturday night at the age of 62 following a motorcycle accident on a cross-country road trip after his return from the Tokyo Olympic Games.

Leach is credited with building the U.S. Women’s Foil Team’s success over nearly 30 years, including four medals at the Senior World Team Championships, including the squad’s first Senior World title in 2018. He also coached more than a half dozen personal students to Olympic berths as well as foil fencers to Senior, Junior and Cadet World titles.

Leach’s students reached new heights in any weapon for USA Fencing during the 1990s when Iris Zimmermann (Rochester, N.Y.) became the first U.S. fencer to win a Cadet World Championship in any weapon, taking gold at age 14 in 1995, followed by a Junior World title in 1999 and earning the first medal at the Senior World Championships for a U.S. fencer in any weapon with a bronze medal the same year. Zimmermann’s older sister, Felicia Zimmermann (Rochester, N.Y.), became the first U.S. woman to win the Overall Junior World Cup title and went on to compete in two Olympic Games, making her debut in 1996 and competing with Iris in 2000. Ann Marsh-Senic (Royal Oak, Mich.) earned a seventh-place finish at the 1996 Games with her Atlanta Games teammate, Suzie Paxton (Brooklyn, N.Y.), rising to a top-eight world ranking during her career.

In 2000, Leach coached Team USA to a fourth-place finish at the Sydney Olympic Games, missing bronze by just two touches. The U.S. Women’s Foil Team avenged the loss in 2001, winning bronze with an all-star lineup that included the Zimmermanns as well as Marsh-Senic and Erinn Smart (Brooklyn, N.Y.) who would go on to win silver with Team USA at the 2008 Games.

A coach at the Fencers Club from 2001-2016, Leach’s personal students also included two-time Olympian Nzingha Prescod (Brooklyn, N.Y.) who won gold at the 2011 Junior World Championships and became the first Black woman to win an individual medal at the Senior World Championships with her bronze in 2015.

The U.S. Women’s Foil Team had its most successful quadrennium in history from 2017-21, earning three straight medals at the Senior World Championships, including gold in 2018, silver in 2017 and bronze in 2018. Last month, the squad narrowly missed the podium with Lee Kiefer (Lexington, Ky.), Sabrina Massialas (San Francisco, Calif.), Nicole Ross (New York City, N.Y.) and Jackie Dubrovich (Riverdale, N.J.) placing fourth at the Tokyo Games.

After coaching his fourth Olympic Games in 2016, Leach joined the Notre Dame coaching staff beginning in the 2016-17 season. During his five seasons as an assistant coach at Notre Dame, Leach’s students won 12 individual medals at NCAAs, including five out of 10 possible gold medals in the individual foil events, with the Fighting Irish winning the team titles in 2017, 2018 and 2021. Among the athletes Leach coached in South Bend were U.S. Olympic Fencing Team members Kiefer, Massialas and Nick Itkin (Los Angeles, Calif.) Kiefer, who won Team USA’s first-ever Olympic title in women’s foil just three weeks ago, won four straight NCAA titles for Notre Dame with her final gold coming in 2017. Itkin claimed back-to-back titles in 2018 and 2019 and earned bronze in Tokyo with the men’s foil squad. Massialas won silver at the 2018 NCAAs and competed in the women’s foil team event in Tokyo. Two-time NCAA individual medalist Amita Berthier also made her Olympic debut in Tokyo, competing for Singapore.

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)

GeneChing

08-18-2021, 09:32 AM

Cruel and random modern pentathlon should replace horses with climbing (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/18/modern-pentathlon-horse-punch-olympics-changes-tokyo-2020?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1)
The current format does not do athletes or animals justice. Replacing showjumping with climbing would be a solution

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/cee411c9f890e0cab488363b9ad96a28ef58f857/0_122_3500_2100/master/3500.jpg
Annika Schleu struggles to control Saint Boy during the showjumping event at the Tokyo 2020 modern pentathlon. Photograph: Iván Alvarado/Reuters
Beau Dure
Wed 18 Aug 2021 05.00 EDT

Imagine training for countless hours for many years to reach the Olympics in rowing. You’re slotted into the pairs event. One hitch – your partner will be determined by random draw. You look over and see one of your rivals paired up with a world champion. Your partner, on the other hand, isn’t sure which end of the oar goes in the water.

Perhaps the equestrian phase of the modern pentathlon, in which athletes are assigned mounts by draw from a pool of horses, isn’t quite so extreme. The horses should all be able to jump over things, at least, so organizers aren’t just borrowing animals from any family that likes to ride around a bit. They just haven’t had much time to bond with the athletes who are randomly assigned to them after they’ve finished fencing and swimming.

But the disparity in allocated horses is vivid. In 2008, young American pentathlete Margaux Isaksen kissed her horse after a solid ride in Beijing. In Tokyo, coach Kim Raisner punched a horse that had brought German athlete Annika Schleu to tears as battled to control the animal, knowing she was about to fall from first to 31st.

It wasn’t quite Mongo in Blazing Saddles, but the whipping and punching were certainly enough to make Peta call for modern pentathlon to leave things up to the humans rather than bringing in animals who never signed up for this.

Even without the animal-rights aspects, show jumping is an odd fit for a multidisciplinary test of athletic prowess. Schleu is perfectly capable of riding other horses, as she has shown in a stellar international career. She had a nearly perfect ride when she took silver in the 2018 modern pentathlon world championships and again a few months ago when she finished fourth in this year’s worlds. But in the Olympics, she was stuck with a horse who was having none of it, and her medal hopes went down the drain.

Fellow German Isabell Werth, a seven-time Olympic champion in the horse-specific event of dressage, has seen enough of the animals in modern pentathlon. “You could just as easily give them a bike or a scooter,” Werth told German news agency SID.

Scooters in particular seem unlikely to be added, but modern pentathlon’s efforts to modernize are ongoing. As recently as 1992, the event took place over five days. In 2012, the sport combined the shooting and running, mimicking biathlon. This year, the bulk of the fencing was done separately, but the swimming, a fencing bonus round, the riding and the laser run were all conducted in Tokyo Stadium, which also hosted some soccer and rugby during the Games.

It’s a pity fans weren’t allowed in to see a truly unique competition that included the construction of an outdoor short-course pool, but it was also a bit artificial. Fans who turned up to the stadium would not have seen the fencing “ranking round,” which in the women’s competition had already separated contenders from the field with a 150-point disparity between first and last. The swimming phase didn’t shake up the standings that much, and the fencing “bonus round” awarded no more than six points in a sport in which the winner wound up with 1,385.

By 2024, they plan to go even further. The plan is to take a sport that once took five days and condense it to 90 minutes.

A lot of the changes have indeed made things better. Decathlon and heptathlon should look into the laser run’s handicap start – the more points you have, the earlier you start the run – that means the first person across the finish line has won gold.

But condensing the event to 90 minutes doesn’t solve the sport’s biggest problem, which reared its ugly head in Tokyo. It’s the horses. They might as well acknowledge that the horse draw is a lottery and replace it with a 21st-century corollary like scratch-off tickets.

Rewind a bit. The genesis of the modern pentathlon is a scenario based around the attributes needed by a 19th-century cavalry officer. A soldier needs to escape the enemy by shooting and sword-fighting, then riding an unfamiliar horse, swimming across a river and running to safety. The scenario is certainly dated – a modern soldier probably isn’t carrying an epee – but organizers can try to keep up the narrative while replacing the horses.

Given the popularity of esports and the importance of technology in the modern military, maybe a round of Call of Duty would work. But we have other choices that are already on the Olympic program.

The bevy of combat sports – boxing, wrestling, taekwondo, etc – might be redundant and impractical. Karate’s Olympic tenure might be brief, anyway, as the “I can hit you softer” discipline of kumite doesn’t play well with a viewing audience accustomed to MMA.

Instead, we could look at the “escape” aspect of the soldier’s saga. Escaping on a skateboard or surfboard seems unlikely, and surfing would ruin the sport’s aspirations of taking place in one venue, anyway. Canoe/kayak and rowing also would be difficult logistical fits. Cycling could be a viable option, maybe with a time trial around a miniature cross-country course.

The best choice, though, is one of the newer, youth-oriented sports in the Olympics. No, not breakdancing.

Sport climbing.

It fits both the sport’s narrative (an escaping soldier could conceivably have to scale a cliff) and its overarching goal of testing overall athleticism. Then one option could be to commandeer a fitness center for the swimming, fencing and climbing, then move to a nearby park for the run and shoot.

Even better: Add climbing walls to the run-and-shoot course.

Even better: Have a triathlon-style transition from swimming to the running/shooting/climbing race.

Of course, none of the top athletes at the moment are elite climbers and it would be unfair to expect them to master the sport before the next Olympic cycle, so the changes could be phased in slowly starting with junior events in the next few years, ready for a full introduction at the 2028 or 2032 Games. In a sport that is often decried as elitist it would also open doors for more participants. Sure, learning to climb isn’t cheap, but it’s a hell of a lot more accessible for the average kid than showjumping.

Any of these options, though, are better than watching an interspecies conflict that’s uncomfortable to watch and places much of an athlete’s chance of winning on the luck of the draw.

I heard Kaley Cuoco offered to buy that punched horse.

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing) because we don't have a pentathlon thread.
Tokyo Olympics (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64475-Tokyo-Olympics)

GeneChing

10-22-2021, 09:15 AM

More on Hadzic (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing&p=1321526#post1321526)

USA Fencing Is Blocking A Top Athlete From A Competition After Sexual Assault Accusations. It Took Eight Years And Widespread Outcry.
“I’m relieved but confused as to why this didn’t happen before the Olympics?” said a fencer who competed in Tokyo.

Brianna Sacks
BuzzFeed News Reporter
Posted on October 21, 2021, at 6:19 p.m. ET

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2021-10/21/21/asset/3791907bf5d0/sub-buzz-461-1634853565-14.jpg?crop=2048%3A1802%3B0%2C100&downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto
Marie-Lan Nguyen / Wikimedia Commons
Alen Hadzic

After outcry from members of its own Olympic team, USA Fencing is blocking one of its top athletes who is facing multiple accusations of sexual assault from an upcoming competition — a step that gets ahead of the national system for addressing misconduct within athletic organizations, but fencers and officials say is necessary to keep the sport safe.

Alen Hadzic, a 29-year-old elite fencer from Montclair, New Jersey, is currently being investigated after at least six women filed claims of sexual misconduct, including rape, with the US Center for SafeSport, which took over abuse and misconduct investigations from individual sports organizations in 2017 after revelations of the widespread failings within USA Gymnastics. BuzzFeed News previously reported how, in spite of women speaking up again and again, Hadzic was able to reach the highest levels of his sport. USA Fencing in July acknowledged to BuzzFeed News it has known for eight years that Hadzic was suspended from his university after an investigation into a fencing teammate’s accusation of sexual assault. In a statement to BuzzFeed News, the organization explained that it did not take action at the time because its policies then did not require it to do so.

But now, the national governing body is refusing to register him for a competition in Colmar, France, at the end of the month, and officials said they intend to take the same unprecedented action for future tournaments, including some of those in the US. The move highlights a gray area between sports organizations and the independent body tasked with overseeing them when it comes to sexual assault cases. USA Fencing is, in a sense, setting a precedent that it may still hold athletes to conduct standards by blocking Hadzic’s participation from competition — even while an independent sexual misconduct investigation is ongoing.

In a statement, USA Fencing said that it “reserves discretion as to which athletes it will register into competitions.”

“The organization must be mindful of many factors, including how registration of individuals reflects on USA Fencing, its values and the interests of other athletes. USA Fencing does not intend to enter Mr. Hadzic in any competitions for the foreseeable future except to the extent it is legally compelled to do so.’’

Hadzic’s attorney, Michael Palma, did not return BuzzFeed News’ request for comment, but he told USA Today, which first reported the restriction, that “he will fight to protect the fencer's right to participate.” Both the athlete and his attorney have repeatedly denied the various accusations against him, likening them to a witch hunt. In an interview with Business Insider, Hadzic threatened retaliation.

Fencers and other members of the organization have mixed feelings about USA Fencing’s extraordinary move. While they’re relieved there has been some action, they also see it as a performative gesture that came way, way too late.

“I’m relieved but confused as to why this didn’t happen before the Olympics?” said a fencer who competed in Tokyo. “It makes no sense to me.”

During the Olympics this past summer, BuzzFeed News reported that Hadzic was allowed to travel to Tokyo as an alternate on the men’s epee team despite an ongoing investigation into serious accusations of sexual misconduct by several women, including a teammate. Though SafeSport initially suspended him, an arbitrator ruled in Hadzic’s favor and allowed him to take the coveted spot on Team USA. His presence caused an uproar in the fencing community and among his teammates, who unanimously signed a statement calling for him to be banned for their safety and well-being. As cameras rolled and the world watched ahead of one Olympic event, his male teammates stood beside him wearing pink masks in solidarity with sexual assault survivors, an act of protest against a fellow athlete that an Olympic expert told BuzzFeed News was “rare and highly unusual.”

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2021-10/21/22/asset/12879d3793b7/sub-buzz-530-1634854397-6.jpg?downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto
Elsa / Getty Images
Jacob Hoyle and Curtis McDowald of Team USA at the Tokyo Olympic Games on July 30, 2021.

USA Fencing officials had scrambled to create, for the first time ever, a safety plan for the Games that was supposed to keep him away from women, especially those on his team. But as four Olympic athletes told BuzzFeed News, it didn’t work. They saw Hadzic daily and in close proximity — at the small training center, in line to get into the Olympic village, at the gym, and on shuttles — despite rules that stated he would travel separately. The Lily reported that one female fencer was even put in the same hotel as Hadzic, right down the hall.

Officials involved in the creation and execution of the safety plan have acknowledged to BuzzFeed News that the process and communication with athletes “could have been handled better.” In the wake of the turmoil, several top officials, including longtime CEO Kris Ekeren, have left or announced their impending resignations.

“These were unique circumstances for our organization. In retrospect, USA Fencing should have provided more information about the safety plan and its implementation to the athletes in Tokyo,” a spokesperson said. “As an organization, the safety and well-being of USA Fencing members is our top priority, and we have — at times — failed to communicate that adequately. We apologize to our athletes who undeservedly had to endure the many distractions and concerns for their own safety while trying to prepare for the most important competition of their lives.”

USA Fencing has contended, in interviews, statements, and documents reviewed by BuzzFeed News that with SafeSport taking over “exclusive jurisdiction” of sexual misconduct investigations, its hands were tied in keeping Hadzic from the Olympic team or banning him from the organization. Though it’s now taking steps to keep him from some future competitions, critics have said it should have acted sooner — particularly since the organization was first warned about one of Hadzic’s alleged assaults nearly a decade ago.
continued next post

GeneChing

10-22-2021, 09:16 AM

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Devin Manky / Getty Images
Alen Hadzic of the USA (left) fences Max Heinzer of Switzerland at the Peter Bakonyi Men's Epee World Cup on Feb. 8, 2020, in Richmond, Canada.
In October 2013, the lawyer of a fellow member of USA Fencing, who was also Hadzic’s teammate at Columbia University, told top officials that a month before, the university had suspended Hadzic for a year following a formal investigation into her claim of sexual assault. In a letter to USA Fencing, the woman’s lawyer advised USA Fencing to bar him from competitions, writing that “Mr. Hadzic’s conduct does not comport with the standards set by USA Fencing.”

In their response, the organization explained that it had reviewed all of the documents but would not take any action because Hadzic had not violated any of its policies. Because the then-college athlete was not a coach or authority figure, and because “the alleged conduct” did not occur at a USA Fencing event, the organization said it was not in the position to take any disciplinary action against him.

The woman’s attorney pushed back, calling the decision an “intentional misreading” of the organization’s own Athlete’s Code of Conduct, which prohibited sexually inappropriate behavior between athletes.

“A plain reading of this Code of Conduct excerpt renders Mr. Hadzic unfit and thus ineligible to participate,” the attorney wrote. “How can the [United States Fencing Association], in good conscience, claim its hands are tied and permit the participation of a known rapist into its athletic midst?”

The organization never wrote back. Due to the ongoing investigation into Hadzic, USA Fencing cannot comment about Hadzic’s case, but top officials have reiterated that at that time, the organization didn’t have a policy that specifically addressed what to do if an athlete abused a peer. Also, they argued, the athlete code of conduct only applied to the national team, which Hadzic was not yet on. However, USA Fencing’s bylaws at the time did state that “it is a violation of USFA policy for any employee or member of the USFA to engage in sexual harassment.”

On Thursday, Ekeren, who signed the correspondence to the woman’s lawyer as interim USA Fencing CEO, told BuzzFeed News that she wishes things had been done differently.

“As a woman and a parent, this has been heartwrenching,” she said in a statement. “Back in 2013, USA Fencing's policies led to the determination made with regards to Mr. Hadzic. I truly wish that our policies at the time had been different. Our organization has since revised them, and had we been operating under the current policies back at that time, a different decision may have been made.”

In the following years, Hadzic would go on to compete in and continue to excel at a slew of national and world competitions, despite being temporarily suspended in 2019 for other bad behavior at a competition in Columbia. His position on the US Olympic team placed him at fencing’s highest level, and he has said he is now aiming to again compete in the Paris Games in 2024.

Whether he is banned remains in the hands of SafeSport, which has yet to deliver a verdict in the high-profile probe, which began in May. The situation is another example of how, despite years of development and a recent doubling of its budget to $20 million, the national system is still imperfect and not up to the task of running timely investigations across the wide, complicated world of US Olympic sports organizations.

To be fair, SafeSport was set up to fail. Created by the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee to enforce anti-abuse policies, the agency was meant to streamline the reporting and investigative process, taking power away from individual national governing bodies, who were failing to properly punish and get rid of abusers within their ranks. But it launched with just three full-time employees to investigate thousands of complaints, which were filed without any statute of limitations. It now has 100 employees, has gotten through 40% of its backlog, and has sanctioned 1,100 people. So far this year, the center has received close to 3,000 reports, which must be handled by 30 full-time investigators and about a dozen contractors. Cases like Hadzic’s, where the allegations took place before the center existed, can be the hardest to tackle.

There is still no timeline for when SafeSport will conclude its probe. In emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News, an investigator told parties involved last week that “the case is still ongoing and that information from the involved parties is still being gathered.”

“Investigations into sexual misconduct are sensitive and often complex, particularly those that involve allegations going back many years and that predate the Center — getting it right must be the priority,” Daniel Hill, a SafeSport spokesperson, told BuzzFeed News.

Hill declined to comment specifically on Hadzic’s case.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2021-10/21/22/asset/12879d3793b7/sub-buzz-481-1634854008-10.jpg
Anna Moneymaker / Getty Images
Olympic gymnast Aly Raisman participates in a Senate Judiciary hearing on the FBI's handling of Larry Nassar's sexual abuse on Sept. 15, 2021, in Washington, DC.
Last month, gymnastics star Aly Raisman said at a Senate hearing that in spite of the intentions for SafeSport to be independent, she doesn’t trust it because it was created and funded by the very organization it's supposed to be keeping in line: the US Olympic Committee.

“I’m trying to be respectful here: I don’t like SafeSport,” she said. “I hear from many survivors that they report their abuse and it’s like playing hot potato, where somebody else kicks it over to somebody else and they don’t hear back for a really long time.”

Nearly 10 other fencers who filed complaints with SafeSport against their coaches and peers told BuzzFeed News the same thing. Their cases drag on for months, usually without any communication or updates, leaving both parties in limbo, according to emails and case files reviewed by BuzzFeed News. In one instance, a woman filed a report against a referee in January 2020 and was assigned an investigator, but it took 14 months before they started the interview process. She ended up dropping her case in April because waiting was too much for her to handle.

“It is evident that SafeSport generally misunderstands the complicated nature that is sexual assault,” Lena Johnson, an athlete whose case against another Olympic fencer took almost a year to conclude, told BuzzFeed News. “SafeSport is like one big HR department that’s trying to monitor all sports across the nation. How is that supposed to work?”

threads
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
metoo-(An-Open-Secret-Hollywood-Please-Watch) (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70520-metoo-(An-Open-Secret-Hollywood-Please-Watch))

mawali

10-25-2021, 10:32 PM

As an amateur fencer (former), I did local USA tournaments only but there was always a reluctance to stop or "offend" those male practitioners who crossed the line (sexual assault, rape, etc) because of the grred of winning.
In the past, people would keep their mouth shut and that has been shown to make the problems even worse so I am glad women (mostly) are speaking up and making themselves heard.

Even when they do, there is the foot dragging tendency (Larry Nassar and gymnastics arena) hoping the stuff will go away. No more!

Basta ya!

GeneChing

12-10-2021, 10:45 AM

Three sports gone, three sports added to LA28 Summer Olympics (https://www.infobae.com/aroundtherings/articles/2021/12/09/three-sports-gone-three-sports-added-to-la28-summer-olympics/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook)
The IOC adds skateboarding, sport climbing and surfing to permanent spots on the Olympic program.

By
Ed Hula
December 9, 2021
ehula@aroundtherings.com
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International Olympic Committee President Thomas Bach attends the Executive Board meeting in the lead-up to Beijing 2022 at the Olympic House in Lausanne, Switzerland, December 9, 2021. Greg Martin/IOC/Handout via REUTERS THIS IMAGE HAS BEEN SUPPLIED BY A THIRD PARTY. NO RESALES. NO ARCHIVES
Three of the oldest sports on the Olympic program have been replaced with three of the youngest.

Beginning with the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics, sport stalwarts boxing, modern pentathlon and weightlifting are no longer on the program for the Games.

Taking those places on the roster are skateboarding, sport climbing and surfing. The trio of newcomers debuted at Tokyo 2020 and have since been added to the program for Paris 2024.

The youth appeal and growth of these three “S” sports is driving the changes by the International Olympic Committee (IOC), said IOC President Thomas Bach in announcing the changes.

“The proposed inclusion of these youth-focused sports is based on their significant contribution to the success of Tokyo 2020, the commitment to innovation and the partnership expressed by LA28, recognizing the deep roots each of these sports have in California,” he said.

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FILE PHOTO: Tokyo 2020 Olympics - Modern Pentathlon - Women's Riding - Tokyo Stadium - Tokyo, Japan - August 6, 2021. Annika Schleu of Germany in action REUTERS/Ivan Alvarado//File Photo
All three of the sports on the outs with the IOC have struggled for a few years to remain on the summer program. Modern pentathlon, which debuted in 1912 and was supposedly the favorite of Olympics founder Pierre deCoubertin, has radically adjusted its format in recent years. Live weapons fire has been replaced with a laser pistol. This year the federation voted to drop the equestrian jumping event but has yet to decide what other discipline will take the place of the equestrian competition. With some of the lowest Olympic TV ratings, modern pentathlon brings little commercial value beyond its historic past.

A statement from the sport’s federation Union Internationale de Pentathlon Moderne (UIPM) says the sport will look to the future.

“UIPM’s global community is ready to embrace the new opportunity presented by the IOC to futureproof modern pentathlon as an enduring highlight of the Olympic Games,” they said.

“The main constituents of the sport will include a compelling, inclusive and fair format, a sustainable and affordable infrastructure and a combination of sports that engages new audiences while continuing to embrace the ultimate challenge of body and mind – as envisaged by Baron Pierre de Coubertin,” says the UIPM reaction to today’s decision.

The cuts were approved at a virtual meeting of the IOC Executive Board, chaired by Bach during the past three days.

The IOC EB is quite familiar with the travails of boxing and weightlifting, both troubled sports over issues such as governance, ethics, finance and doping. Both are under IOC scrutiny as each work to heal self-inflicted wounds suffered through decades of mismanagement.

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Tokyo 2020 Olympics - Weightlifting - Men's 96kg - Group A - Tokyo International Forum, Tokyo, Japan - July 31, 2021. Bekdoolot Rasulbekov of Kyrgyzstan reacts as he fails a lift. REUTERS/Edgard Garrido/File photo SEARCH "BEST OF THE TOKYO OLYMPICS" FOR ALL PICTURES. TPX IMAGES OF THE DAY.
Weightlifting, one of the 12 sports on the program of the 1896 Games, was facing being cut from Paris 2024. The International Weightlifting Federation (IWF) still has some key tests to pass with the IOC if it is to remain on the program in Paris.

So far, the only reaction from weightlifting comes from Ursula Papandrea of the United States, a candidate for the IWF presidency. The IWF was scheduled to hold their elections in a few weeks in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, but they were recently postponed with no due time or date selected. Papandrea blames the IWF’s predicament on the failure of the current federation’s leadership.

“The IWF Executive Board could have quite easily secured weightlifting’s long-term status by cooperating with the IOC request to improve its governance and heed its call for new leadership,” says Papandrea, who served as an interim IWF president for a few months in 2020 until she was voted out by the IWF executive board.

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Tokyo 2020 Olympics - Boxing - Men's Heavyweight - Medal Ceremony - Kokugikan Arena - Tokyo, Japan - August 6, 2021. Silver medallist Muslim Gadzhimagomedov of the Russian Olympic Committee congratulates Gold medallist Julio Cesar La Cruz of Cuba during the medal ceremony. REUTERS/Ueslei Marcelino
Boxing, contested in the Olympics since 1912, is ****her along with its reforms and new leadership than the IWF but the International Boxing Association (AIBA) is still under watch by the IOC. Distrusting of AIBA, the IOC took over the administration and staging of boxing for Tokyo from qualifications to the medal rounds.

“We are grateful for the opportunity being given to boxing and its athletes. And we are also grateful to the IOC for its acknowledgement of our progress. The establishment of a clear roadmap is very helpful,” AIBA President Umar Kremlev said after Bach’s announcement.

“There will certainly be more to do in terms of sporting integrity, financial integrity and governance. We remain fully committed to meeting all the objective criteria for reform established by the IOC. AIBA is determined to put itself in a position to be able to organize Olympic qualification and the Paris 2024 boxing tournament,” said Kremlev.

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Mexico's pitcher Dallas Escobedo instructs the catcher to catch the fly ball in the foul territory during the seventh inning of the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games softball opening round game between Italy and Mexico at Yokohama Baseball Stadium in Yokohama, Japan, on July 25, 2021. (Photo by KAZUHIRO FUJIHARA / AFP)
All three of the sports lopped from the program have the chance to return to Los Angeles as a one-time sport, subject to their good standing with the IOC and what other sports might also be seeking to enter the LA28 program. The competition will be tough. Baseball and softball, added for Tokyo after being dropped in 2008, are important sports in Southern California and the U.S. Breaking, a style of dance added as a one-time sport in Paris, seems destined for Los Angeles depending on how this newcomer is received in 2024. Karate, squash, lacrosse, cricket and polo are among other possible sports with an eye on LA28. A decision on those additions is expected in 2023.

“As we look at additional sport recommendations, we will continue to focus on sports relevant to Los Angeles, provide an incredible fan experience and contribute to the success of the Games. We want to build on tradition, while progressing the Olympic Games forward,” said LA28 chair Casey Wasserman in a statement.

The proposal to add and cut sports for LA28 is subject to ratification in February at the IOC Session to be held in Beijing on the eve of the 2022 Winter Games.

threads
2028-Los-Angeles-Olympics (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70022-2028-Los-Angeles-Olympics)
Boxing (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54079-Boxing)
Fencing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

03-02-2022, 09:13 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=iMOrLHSF5rw

threads
Fencing (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)
Ukraine (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?72272-Ukraine)

GeneChing

02-02-2023, 09:18 AM

Acting legend Chow Yun-fat advises fencing star Cheung Ka-long to ‘stay humble’ in interview (https://nextshark.com/cheung-ka-long-chow-yun-fat-vogue-interview)
The celebrities met for the first time during a sit-down conversation for Vogue Hong Kong

Michelle De Pacina
January 24, 2023
chow yun fat cheung ka-longvia Vogue Hong Kong
Asian America Daily - in under 5 minutes

https://nextshark.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=828,format=auto,quality=90/https://data.nextshark.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/chow-yun-fat.jpg
Fencing star Cheung Ka-long fanboyed over international acting legend Chow Yun-fat in a recent Vogue interview.

The two Hong Kong celebrities met for the first time and discussed how they stayed grounded as they climbed to the peak of their careers in an interview for Vogue Hong Kong released last week.

Cheung previously made history by becoming the country’s first athlete to rank No. 1 in the world in men’s foil and winning Hong Kong’s second gold medal at the 2022 Asian Fencing Championships.

The 25-year-old fencing star’s meeting with the 67-year-old actor was part of a Dior campaign.

In the video for Vogue Hong Kong, Cheung expresses his excitement and nervousness in meeting Chow for the first time in person, admitting that he is a shy person who is not good at speaking.

“I usually see him in movies, and I have watched many different movies,” Cheung says. “The first one should be ‘God of Gamblers.’ I also watched ‘A Better Tomorrow’ and ‘Prison On Fire,’ which were recommended by my friends. I really enjoyed them. You acted well.”

Similarly, Chow praises the fencer for his accomplishments at a young age and says he was inspired to learn fencing after watching Cheung compete at the Olympics.

He is more good looking than I imagined. He is tall, gentle and polite. He is particularly handsome when he is fencing. The most memorable moment was when he brushed past his opponent and scored with his foil backwards. He was so calm even in the gold medal match.

As the celebrities speak about their experiences in their separate careers, Chow offers life advice to the young man.

When you’re high up, you should stay humble. On the same note, when you have outstanding achievements, you still need to humble yourself. On a certain level, I think things you’ve learnt on your fencing journey can be applied to your life. When you lose a competition, you should not get angry. Just like how when you’re at the top, you need to remind yourself to stay humble. When you find yourself in a slump, you need to remind yourself not to feel sorry for yourself. When you’re at a high point, don’t get on your high horse. It’s important to stay impartial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On5nTr1hfwQ

Chow, who has kept a frugal lifestyle over the years, is known for his humility and generosity to fans around the world.

****. Chow hasn't aged at all. He still looks great.

Chow-Yun-Fat (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?63339-Chow-Yun-Fat)
Fencing (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

06-29-2023, 11:49 AM

Lights, Sabers, Action: USA Fencing to Welcome Lightfencing as Summer Nationals Demonstration Event (https://www.usafencing.org/news_article/show/1277932)
06/28/2023, 10:45AM CDT BY BRYAN WENDELL
From July 5 to July 7, fencers and fans at the Phoenix Convention Center will be treated to an electrifying series of high-tech, high-energy lightfencing matches.

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/photo/1ee2-191058284/Terra_Prime_header.png

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — Fans of all things Star Wars won’t have to travel to a galaxy far, far away to experience lightfencing. In fact, those attending the 2023 Summer Nationals in Phoenix won’t even have to leave the exhibition hall.

For the first time ever, USA Fencing is thrilled to welcome Terra Prime Lightfencing as a demonstration event at Summer Nationals. From July 5 to July 7, attendees at the Phoenix Convention Center will be treated to an electrifying mix of high-tech, high-energy lightfencing matches.

With a schedule filled with matches, discovery sessions, and Q&A time, there's plenty of opportunity to learn about this exciting sport, watch exhibition bouts and even try your hand at wielding an LED saber! Athletes from Terra Prime will be stationed right at the heart of the action, near Pod G, to ensure no one misses out.

Phil Andrews, CEO of USA Fencing, was among those who had the bright idea to welcome Terra Prime to Summer Nationals and take this opportunity into hyperdrive.

"We are absolutely thrilled to bring Lightfencing to Summer Nationals,” he says. “It's a fantastic opportunity for us to celebrate and showcase the sport of fencing in a new and exciting light! I think our fencers will find themselves entertained and pulled in by the fascinating force of this emerging sport."

So, here's what's on the agenda:

Terra Prime Lightfencing
Phoenix Convention Center, main competition hall near Pod G

July 5
11 a.m.: Introduction and demonstration

11:30 a.m.: Lightfencing matches

12:30 p.m.: Q and A (lunch time)

1:30 p.m.: Discovery session for public

2 p.m.: Lightfencing matches

2:30 pm: Q and A

3 p.m.: End of the day's events

July 6
11 a.m.: Lightfencing matches

11:30 a.m.: Discovery session 1

12:30 p.m.: Q and A (lunch time)

1:30 p.m.: Discovery session 2

2 p.m.: Lightfencing matches

2:30 p.m.: Q and A

July 7
11 a.m.: Lightfencing matches

11:30 a.m.: Discovery session 1

12:30 p.m.: Q and A (lunch time)

1:30 p.m.: Discovery session 2

2 p.m.: Lightfencing matches

2:30 p.m.: Q and A

Jedi-Academies (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65368-Jedi-Academies)
Fencing (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

07-18-2023, 09:25 AM

USA Fencing brought a new blade to Phoenix: The 'Star Wars' lightsaber (https://kjzz.org/content/1851984/usa-fencing-brought-new-blade-phoenix-star-wars-lightsaber)
By Jill Ryan
Published: Monday, July 17, 2023 - 4:05am
Updated: Monday, July 17, 2023 - 8:30am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLy6KJVvGYY

More than 5,000 fencers recently came to Phoenix to compete in this year’s USA Fencing Summer Nationals.

Amidst the competition was one event using very familiar weaponry.

Fencing is an ancient sport with its origins in multiple countries, including France. For centuries, the sport had three disciplines with three respective weapons: sabre, foil and épée.

“Sabre comes from war. And it’s the slashing weapon. So, the idea was you would slash somebody effectively across their torso or across their head, and you would kill the human, but not the horse, because the horse is an asset that can be brought to your side of the war in Europe,” said Phil Andrews, the CEO of USA Fencing.

In the sport, a person uses the entire sword to slash their padded opponent for the point. The two other disciplines are foil and épée. Both only use the tip of the blade to “pierce” the opponent, again while padded. But their targeted areas are different.

A fourth discipline

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Jill Ryan/KJZZ
More than 5,000 fencers came to the USA Fencing Summer Nationals 2023 in Phoenix, including light fencers.

But new to this year’s competition was what France has already recognized as its fourth fencing weapon: the lightsaber. Yes, like the one from “Star Wars.”

Well, not exactly. The LED lights in the lightsabers are contained in hard plastic tubing.

“It’s based on the LED saber, which is basically a replica like the lightsabers you see in ‘Star Wars’ and all that. We have a simplified hilt, so it’s essentially just a flashlight, very durable, we can bash them against each other without breaking them,” said Chad Eisner with Terra Prime Light Armory, or TPLA.

While it’s not as formally established in the U.S., this sport goes by many names, one of which is light fencing. Unlike traditional fencing’s combat zone, which is a long but narrow rectangular area, light fencing is a more 360 degree sport typically played in a circular arena.

“The French Fencing Federation has it as a full part of their nationals so we brought them here to trial it, demo it — I did it yesterday — for our participants here,” Andrews said.

Light fencing and its specific rules have been curated and tested by TPLA.

“In 2018, we were able to get the French Fencing Federation to accept this sport as the fourth fencing weapon. And they just had their first national tournament back in February,” Eisner said.

The Federation officially recognized lightsaber dueling as a sport in 2019.

System of priority in play

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Jill Ryan/KJZZ
The rule-set of light fencing takes a page out of each fencing discipline.

For light fencing, imagine what a regular fencer looks like in their padded white armor and meshed mask. Now, bulk up the pads, make it all black and add a lightsaber with a color of your choice — and that is what these athletes look like. And its rule set takes a page out of each fencing discipline.

“So, we can hit the entire body. We’re pretty much doing cuts, we don’t thrust with these blades because they injure you. And we work in a system of priority or right of way, so when one person starts an attack the other person must defend,” Eisner said.

Eisner said TPLA’s goal is threefold: to introduce sport to people who would not likely otherwise become athletes, be a gateway to fencing and to create a governing body that works in conjunction with USA Fencing.

Gender and body neutrality

https://media.kjzz.org/s3fs-public/styles/special_story_images_aspect_switcher/public/IMG_8977_0.jpg?itok=tBWoAqEf
Jill Ryan/KJZZ
Light fencing does not currently have different age and weight classes.

Like most combat sports, traditional fencing has divisions — usually by gender, age or skill level. One thing Light Fencing is introducing from of the get-go is gender and body neutrality.

Anna Faulkner is a TPLA-certified light fencer.

“Participation is varied from age, gender identity, body type, background. It is welcomed to anyone with or without a background in fencing or any other form of fighting,” Faulkner said.

Eisner said as they continue to build, they may create different age and weight classes, but the sport will remain coed while simultaneously being fair. He said that’s possible because the sport is played in turns where one player has to signal to the other that they have priority.

“And with that turn-based kind of system, somebody who is larger, stronger, and faster only does not automatically have an advantage,” Eisner said

COVID-19 has delayed many efforts to officially establish light fencing in the U.S. But an invitation from USA Fencing to demonstrate the sport here in Phoenix brought them another step closer.

Jedi-Academies (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65368-Jedi-Academies)
Fencing (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9851-Fencing)

GeneChing

12-28-2023, 10:39 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFljGIn9qMM

GeneChing

01-31-2024, 03:26 PM

Attilio Fini is my new hero.

Can Fencing Be Used for Self-Defense? (https://academyoffencingmasters.com/blog/can-fencing-be-used-for-self-defense/)
BY IGOR CHIRASHNYA ON JANUARY 29, 2024 IN MOSAIC

https://i1.wp.com/academyoffencingmasters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Can-fencing-be-used-for-self-defense.jpg?resize=768%2C513&ssl=1
I recently came across an inspiring news story about self-defense that underscores the remarkable skills and courage honed by a former Italian National Fencing Team coach, Attilio Fini, who is now 93 years old. Just a month ago, he found himself in a perilous situation that required quick thinking and action.

As he was returning home one evening in Milan’s Piazza De Agostini, Fini noticed a shadow drawing too close for comfort. He soon realized that the approaching figure was pointing a gun directly at him. In that critical moment, he relied on the reflexes and instincts instilled in him during his fencing days.

Fini’s fencing background proved to be invaluable. Without hesitation, he disarmed the armed robber, striking his hand and causing the weapon to fall to the ground. He didn’t stop there; with a swift push and punch, he further incapacitated the assailant, sending him tumbling amidst parked scooters. Two brave bystanders joined in, helping to immobilize the attacker until the police arrived.

The assailant, as it turns out, was wanted for murder in Algeria, his home country, and faced charges for multiple robberies. Fini’s remarkable response to this dangerous encounter can be attributed to the fearless mindset and quick reflexes fostered by his fencing training.

While fencing is not typically associated with self-defense, it undeniably played a pivotal role in Fini’s ability to respond effectively to a life-threatening situation. His story serves as a powerful reminder of the transferable skills and attributes developed through sports, which can unexpectedly prove crucial in real-life scenarios. But also, it raises an interesting question – can fencing be used for self-defense?

Fencing is a combat sport. Much like karate or ju-jitsu, fencing is the act of facing an opponent and coming into physical contact with them in order to gain the advantage. That connection to the combat sports arena gives a lot of people the idea that maybe fencing teaches self-defense skills.

So it’s a good question! We’re going to explore this idea, but we want to start off by being very, very clear: sport fencing is not meant for self-defense. That is not what we’re training for. We are training to get points against our opponent in a controlled situation. Period.

With that as our foundational point, we can start to explore how fencing has a legacy of self-defense and the ways that fencing could help in a combat situation. Though every kind of physical fitness activity would be beneficial for someone facing a dangerous situation, fencing does is a special case.

Dueling vs. sport fencing

We all know that fencing has its roots in dueling. Centuries ago, there was significant training in fencing for people who were in the military or needed to know how to take on an opponent for a duel or some other kind of battle.

Our sport originated from life and death, mortal combat encounters. Dueling meant protecting your life from the opponent, and these duels were to the death. The danger was serious, and so was the need to protect yourself. Swords were sharp, and the risk of getting injured was massive. Even in training. Schools of swordsmanship across Europe taught their pupils rigorously about how they could protect themselves. The parry and riposte were developed to prevent real injuries!

The moves that we do in sport fencing today are legacy movements that are related to avoiding being struck by an opponent or actually striking and opponent. The piste is actually not that different from the narrow streets on which those classical European sword duels took place. It’s important to understand that what we do today in sports fencing has a clear track back to the wound-making realities of dueling.

That’s another important point that differentiates sport fencing from dueling – wounds. Though sport fencing causes the occasional bruise or a stray small cut here and there, injuries are incredibly minor. Competitive fencers especially learn to push past these minor injuries to keep on going, but they are so minor.

Sport fencing is not made for self-defense

The use of weapons in fencing is particularly important, and weapons have a clear advantage in a self defense situation. That being said, is anyone really going to have their epee out with them when they run into trouble and need to use self-defense? The answer here is a resounding “no.” There is almost no chance that a fencer would ever have to use self-defense when they actually have their weapon with them.

Beyond that, there is a reason it’s called “the sport of fencing”. Whereas sport judo or sport taekwondo is still effective in a real world situation, sport fencing is much further from its original form. The techniques that we use have their history in real combat techniques, but the gear that we use and the weapons that we choose are so very different. This is why fenciing has such a low rate of injury, even though it is a combat sport. continued next post

GeneChing

01-31-2024, 03:26 PM

Focus and attention

The best way to keep from getting hurt in a fight is to avoid it. This is the backbone of almost every self-defense class and seminar.

The basic idea here is that if you don’t ever go walking down a dark alley at night, you can never get mugged in a dark alley at night. There are all kinds of techniques here to prevent becoming a victim of a crime. Think about parking your car under a light, not going into a parking deck alone late at night, making sure you have your keys ready when you get to your car so you’re not fumbling with them.

Something that goes hand in hand with all of that is being aware of your surroundings. This is a skill that fencing teaches pretty wonderfully, because in fencing we have to be so keyed into our surroundings. Focus is a transferable skill. When you’re focusing on your fencing, you’re teaching your brain how to focus in the future.

The essential thing here in terms of self-defense is that fencing teaches you to split your attention effectively. Listening to the ref and the coach and then also paying attention to your opponent and their constantly changing attacks and counter-attacks helps the brain deal with the cacophony of stimuli. If a fencer was to find themselves in a situation where they needed to use self-defense, either to avoid something happening or to face something that’s happening, that fencing training in focus and attention would help.

Footwork and agility

The footwork and agility that fencers work hard to hone in practice is potentially helpful in dangerous situations. Most dangerous situations that people are in require fast reflexes. It’s not only for self-defense: a crazy road situation can be such too. Fencers by nature train to improve their reflexes so that they can have faster reaction times. It’s part of the DNA of fencing.

Bruce Lee did take some techniques from fencing, particularly footwork and stance, when he developed his Jeet Kune Do style of martial arts. His style is meant to be used for self defense in the real world, not for sport. From that standpoint, we can assume that fencing does offer some foundational techniques that can help in a real world scenario.

The real world isn’t the movies

Speaking of Bruce Lee, let’s talk about fencing on film. Fencing in the movies, when we sometimes see superheroes pull out a foil or sabre and go toe-to-toe with an opponent in a life or death match is not accurate to real world self defense. It’s sad to realize that this is the case, but it doesn’t make fencing any less exciting.

We often see someone in a movie or a TV show pick up some long object, like a broom handle or a piece of pipe, and they use it as a sword. This looks really cool and it’s fun onscreen, but that isn’t what it would look like in real life.

Conditioning vs. expertise

The bottom line here is that the conditioning that fencing provides is definitely going to give a fencer some skill in a self-defense situation. Both mental conditioning and physical conditioning.

Improved awareness, agility, mental toughness, physical stamina, etc. won’t guarantee a win if someone is in a street fight, but they definitely contribute and offer some advantage. Something is better than nothing in this case.

What fencing does teach us is how to stay present in our bodies and how to move swiftly. While we don’t carry around swords to defend ourselves, we can at least use some of the skills that we have built in fencing to make some headway in a tough situation.

While fencing can offer some advantages in terms of physical and mental attributes that may be beneficial for self-defense, it is not a complete substitute for specialized self-defense training. Self-defense programs often include techniques for escaping grabs, dealing with multiple attackers, and using everyday objects as improvised weapons, which are not part of traditional fencing training.

In the case of Attilio Fini, his background in fencing definitely contributed to his ability to react quickly and disarm the attacker, but it’s essential to remember that each self-defense situation is unique, and success depends on a combination of skills, awareness, and decision-making. If someone is specifically interested in self-defense, it’s advisable to seek out dedicated self-defense training programs that address real-life threats and scenarios.

Photo by Flickr user roanokecollege

Give-it-up-to-the-elderly!!!!! (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57037-Give-it-up-to-the-elderly!!!!!)
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GeneChing

02-01-2024, 10:16 AM

PRINCESS LEONOR WINS SILVER MEDAL IN FENCING COMPETITION (https://www.hola.com/us/royals/20240129355296/princess-leonor-fencing-competition-sports-championship/)
The future Queen of Spain began her three-year military training in 2023

https://images.hola.com/us/images/0289-1a0e46a011fc-8edb3326f69a-1000/horizontal-1200/princess-leonor-fences-in-sports-championship-.jpg
BY ALEXANDRA HURTADO -NEW YORK
JANUARY 29, 2024 2:29 PM EST

En garde! Princess Leonor of Spain competed in the XXIV Sports Championship of Military Academies for Officers (InterAcademia) over the weekend. King Felipe and Queen Letizia’s 18-year-old daughter and her team came in second place in the mixed team fencing competition. The Princess of Asturias was pictured sporting her medal as she stood on a podium with her teammates from Zaragoza.

Princess Leonor of Spain competed in the Interacademias Sports Championship©© Interacademiasaga.com

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Princess Leonor of Spain competed in the Interacademias Sports Championship

In addition to fencing during the sporting event, the Princess of Asturias reportedly also competed in volleyball. According to Spain’s Ministry of Defence, “Representative teams from the Academia General Militar (Army), The Escuela Naval Militar (Navy), Academia General del Aire (Air Force) and from the year 2017, the Academia Central de la Defensa (Defense), take part in the competitions” at the InterAcademia event.

Leonor began her first year of military training last August at the General Military Academy in Zaragoza. Her second year (2024-2025) “will be carried out in the Navy and will be carried out with the employment of Midshipman both in the Naval Military School of Marín, and aboard the Training Ship Juan Sebastián de Elcano, during its training voyage,” per Casa de S.M. el Rey. The future Queen of Spain will then “complete her third year in the Air and Space Army, joining the San Javier General Air Academy for the 2025-2026 academic year as a Student Ensign.”

Casa de S.M. el Rey has said that King Felipe and Queen Letizia consider their firstborn’s military training “very convenient and valuable: it reinforces the capabilities of service and dedication, and facilitates the representation tasks that she must assume, as Heir of the Crown of Spain, in accordance with the provisions of Title II of the Constitution.”

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