Hippys in internal arts

[jon]

I just wanted to relate a story from my day which i found both ammusing and desperately annoying at the same time.
Knowing my luck the guy in question reads these boards and my big mouth will get me into trouble but im going to post this anyway...

I train in the Chinese Gardens in the middle of Sydney in a very touristy part of town. We train in a little room just off the main paths and part of our reason for being able to train without paying entry and also why our school fees are so low is that we have to put up with the odd American asking us what we are doing. People will walk past often but we are out of the way and we dont display ourselfs.
I went for a walk to get a drink today and noticed to my dismay some hippy guy dressed totaly up in old style chinese clothes yet wore a bandana with his long hair and a black sash. This guy was standing right in the middle of the gardens on a platform that put him right in everyones view. He was happily beavering away yet his movements where nothing short of appaling and i would not have called them anything other waving your hands around with pointless intent. He displayed no power or ging and litteraly was not even paying attension to his own direction or flow.
I stood there totaly dumbfounded at how this guy plucked up the guts to dress up like something out of a kung fu film walk right into a public place and then procede to publicly display skills i woudnt have been happy seeing from a child.
I went back to my sifu and politly asked if he had seen this guy before, my sifu pointed to the side of his head and said one word... NUTS!
It summed it all up for me and i went back to walking around my post.
The guy then comes past on his way out and trys to talk to my sifu who procedes to turn his back to the guy and act as though he cant understand him.
It sounds slack but i cant blame him, this guy was publicly rediculing what we hold dear and he wasnt even meaning to.

I guess my whole rant is here...
If your only a lower level student for gods sake dont put yourself up on a pedestool and try to act like a master.
If this guy was practising in a quiet corner in plain clothes he would have had all of our full respects.
Instead he dressed up like a kung fu master, black sash and all. Then went into the middle of a public area and performed some of the worst Tai Chi ive ever had the misfortune to see.

Its these people that make everyone think all interal arts are nothing but a poor excuse for hippys to pretend they are fighters.

Still he made me feel MUCH less worried about people watching us, as at least i know they are seeing what the art is really like and performed by people who properly understand it.
We get people wanting pictures and lessons...
He had people dropping on the floor laughing...

P.S i realise this is pretty bitter and i should just be concerned for my own skills but i hate seeing something i love turned into a pile of mush.

[red_fists]

Jon.

I usually train in public view, but it is the centre of a running track and nobody disturbs us.

Main reason for that is we got multiple Groups training and I don't want to interfere with them. Also the running track is in the sunshine, which is needed in a Tokyo Winter.

Plus, most of them are waaayy better than me. :(

Last Week I had a Wushu Guy training next to me. Just put his Kit down, warmed up and went for it.

As for wearing suits and like. Yeah, sure I got a 20 min. walk to get there through the busiest aprt of my Neighbourhood. :)

But I agree those hippies are annoying.

[prana]

JON,

That was me !!!

No, it wasnt hehehe, just kidding :D Did I get you there ? Actually, I dont have much hair, wear cheap, slacky clothes and havent had the time to go to the Chinese Gardens. That must've been my big brother





:D

[Nexus]

Shhh Prana, Quiet, nobody is supposed to know we are brothers!

(Quickly Removes his Hippy Sash and proceeds to eat dried cranberries and nuts from his hippie snack bag)

[Daniel Madar]

In SF there are tons of people who do taiji. Where Bamboo Leaf practices, up at the lake you can barely see an open space. In one of the parks, screaming arguments over who is in whose territory are known to happen. Not commonly though.

I practice publicly without a fear. I practiced at a temple in Tokyo, and had no problems. Plenty of people do weird exercise in the park anyway. There was one guy flying a hawk, and another practicing mogul skiing on the temple steps.

I find that I can't really spend time worrying about the opinions of people just because I am in public, or the fact that "tai chi" conjures up certain images. There's nothing to be done about that really, so I just carry on my own way.

[jon]

hehe i knew i would offend without meaning to:(
I really dont mind hippys.
I just REALLY mind the one i saw today.
Be a hippy and practice internal arts I have no issues.
Dress up like an idiot and distroy the reputation of what you practice in public and im going to have a hard time keeping my mouth shut.
Seriously you had to see this to believe it, it was like a bad dream, i swear the guy was a charactor out of a comic book.
As my sifu so elegently summed up in one word...
"nuts!"

[red_fists]

Hi Daniel.

I practiced at a temple in Tokyo, and had no problems.

Just curious what temple was it?
There are plenty of MA Schools located in and or around Temples here.

My School is in the semi-basement of a Zen-Buddhist Temple.
Very tranquil and no noise to interfere with the training.

Said that I found that I can train over here in public and often get asked about my style or even if people can train along,etc.

None, of the attitudes I used to get in the west like;
How good are you?
Do you think you can take me?
etc.

On the contrary I have met many Chinese that even showed me their forms or gave me free corections and advise.

Love it here.

[jon]

Location, location, location.

I guess this would have to be a MAJOR difference, there is actualy a lot of good kung fu schools in Sydney but not many practice in the public eye. In fact most actively discourage it, my Hung sifu is certainly not big on public demonstrations and when we do we only show short segments of low level forms.
Its rare to see people practice cma in public and usualy when they do they are quite shy about where they practice.
Im sure if i was in a situation where a LOT of people where all doing different things i would not be so worried but under the circumstances the guy in question was simply doing a disservice to his art.
It also depends on time, go out early morning [before 7am] and you can find many chinese practicing various forms of qigung and Tai Chi but its early and no one is around to see them.
This was all at 11am in the middle of a very public place in the centre of town on Chinese new years.
Im just trying to justify my own prejudice now please forgive me;)

[red_fists]

Hi Jon.

I agree with you there.

One of the reasons for it might be that Japan and to a large Degree most of Asia lacks training space that you can readily use.

I for one can't train at home, Apartment is too small and the dojo is closed.
So for many of us the only option is the Park.
Or going to the Goverment Sports center, but those are normally crowded.

Also I think Asians are better at minding their own Business. ;)

[Ka]

Yep Sydney may have a lot of good schools but we got a fair share of scamers as well.
Jon you should have asked for a lesson,checked out his fees,asked his lineage,the works.
Although I am all for if it works for him and he's not harming others then no worries but this sounds like attention seeking dreamer material.:)

[Daniel Madar]

Honmonji. Very nice place. Great view, cool cemetery.

[jon]

Hi Ka
Yeah i was tempted to go up to him and question him but then the whole being seen talking to him bit washed over me and i decided to let him painfully thrash about in peace;)

Im not sure he was teaching but it wouldnt put it past me, as for his linage - im thinking the 6am cable tai chi show is proberly the go. If not he owns a book written by Bob Klien...
If he had spent the money on lessons that he had on his uniform im sure he may of actualy learnt at least one posture properly:p
What i really wanted to pick on was his black sash...
Just to be a prat i wanted to challenge but i knew it was not 'exactly' moraly correct under the circumstances.
Its really hard being young arragent and still trying to respect the people you just cant comprehend.
Just as Red_Fists as put:
"I think Asians are better at minding their own Business."
* This is one skill i sorely need to pick up:rolleyes:

[DrunkenStudent]

Hippy Tai Chi; wave hands around in the air, feel good about yourself. Where I live, Tai Chi practice is often seen as just waving your hands around in the air. I can see why people think that way too. A few bad examples go a lot further than many good ones. Poor instructors contribute to this idea as well, as they are often given by people with poor instruction who are not fit to teach. The post does strike a nerve because I see it and I do not like it. Much like the person with a poor instructor is himself/herself a master student. I have yet to come across a black belt in Tai Chi, but it would not surprise me. :D Not to sound terribly angry, but I am fortunate enough to live in a large apartment where I can practice privately.

[shaolinboxer]

I'm sorry, I thought Tai Chi was about exploration of the self, not the judgement of others.

This guy isn't spoiling anyone's reputation, he's just enjoying himself.

[jon]

You make an excerlent point and one which i tried to hint that i already understood before posting.
"P.S i realise this is pretty bitter and i should just be concerned for my own skills but i hate seeing something i love turned into a pile of mush."

I know it seems very harsh and it is...
I just have a personal dislike for seeing that sort of thing in a public place attracting the wrong attension but i can understand im not the end of the world and my opinion means nothing except to myself.
Again you make a good point and one which has not gone over my head.

I kinda regret posting this as its made me feel VERY judgemental which i realised tonight was a massive problem with my personality. I have a bad habbit of doing this and i formaly appologise to anyone who has found this thread offensive.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Jon,

I think anytime people watch another person play a form or do something related to what they do the mind starts comparing.

Really don’t see much wrong, this seems like a natural way to learn and explore.

When I feel guilt about something usually it is related to the sprite that I did it in, a disconnect between who I really am and what was done or thought.

Many people can do things really bad but not really feel guilty about it. Their sprite and actions are in sync even though both are bad in actions.

I see many people play TC in the parks where I play. Many thoughts cross my mind as I watch their actions. If the setting is right and they seem open sometimes I even offer some friendly advice.

But most of the time I just play my TC, who knows some one watching me may feel that what I do is not correct or just some one doing the new age TC./ not the new age TC!!!



anyway keep playing in the park, enjoy the air, time to let the world go for awhile :)

[Chris McKinley]

"Hippy Tie Chee, Motherf*cker!"...wasn't that a line in Die Hard?

J/K

[TaiChiBob]

The first time i saw Bagua circle walking i was certain the guy had been released too soon, or that the 60's had been way too good to him.. but, with more experience, i found out just how effective that weirdo was.. usually, when we judge others we are judging ourselves, it is our own predjudices that assign values to our observations.. when we judge the "hippy" it is our beliefs about "hippies" that we are judging..

"with pointless intent"

The intent may have been sincere, its interpretation through the "hippy's" understanding of things may not agree with our own interpretation, but.. its easier to make friends than enemies, i sense that our obligation as brothers and sisters is to help rather than ridicule.. to have been so driven by desire to express Tai Chi movements in that manner may be evidence of a very sincere dedicated student in search of a teacher..

"when the student is ready, the teacher will appear"

That, of course, is predicated on the assumption that the "teacher" is willing to see past personal predjudices to recognize the "student".. At the school where i train, a young lady came in some years ago, weird hair, pierced in multiple places, and dressed in a manner that was not to my liking.. i thought, "hmmm, not much going on here".. she won the open division of the World Tai Chi Competitions, in Tiawan only 2 years after beginning training.. She is also one of the people i most admire, willing to be herself regardless of pointless predjudices..

We practice a most amazing art/philosophy.. a gift to the masses from our brothers and sisters in China.. to deny it to others based on observational predjudices, having not taken the time to actually interact with the individual.. is counter to the basic philosophy of the original art.

Remember.. its not how we look, its not where we practice, its the art itself that is important. The art suffers when we begin deciding who is worthy and who is not.. ALL are worthy (some may need some behavior modification first, though.. :) )

Be well, be sincere, express compassion.. (the rest will take care of itself)

[count]

First time I have looked at this thread and your post has great substance. But looking back at the thread, I think Jon started to get it already ;)

[KC Elbows]

A friend of mine used to go to sci fi conventions to pitch her fiction to some editors that frequented such places, and I saw a rather ugly display that seemed somewhat on-topic. There was one regular, he called himself katana, very burnt hippy(I have nothing against hippies, my folks were hippies, I suppose I'm second generation hippy, but the burnt ones frighten me).

Well, supposedly, no weapons were allowed at these events, though some people's costumes had fake weapons on them. Anyway, apparently, this guy must have known the organizing committee's at these things, cause he always had an actual katana. One night, we were wandering the halls, and this guy turns the corner, drunk as all hell, and starts yelling at my friend for no discernable reason, his hand on the hilt of the sword the whole time. I got in the middle, and the guy actually drew his sword on me, though I made a strong point to do so as non-confrontationally as possible. He told me he was a warrior and deserved respect. In the meanwhile, I told my friend to go back the way we came, and when I followed, he was standing there posturing, like he'd won a challenge. He could barely stand, he was physically ravaged by his lifestyle, and he didn't even have the sword gripped properly.

I guess my point is that, I think sometimes these people, the burnt/deranged, use the trappings of an art in an attempt to be something other than what they are, but they do not truly reflect the art. Hell, I don't think I reflect my art either: I think how the art appears when I do it reflects on me.

OK, I had a point somewhere. Where'd it go?

Shouldn't have taken the brown acid.

:eek:

[DrunkenStudent]

I guess I am quite jaded after encountering rather mean spirited hippies, much like what KC Elbows described. I have seen so called laid back hippies that also carry mace and knives, have rather high opinions of themselves regarding combat, and are most willing to demonstrate on others. This depite there being other times when they are outspoken proponents of peace. If I sounded bitter, it is probably because I am.