Subitai

These are posts I made from a different forum but I wanted to post them:

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.p...1ec8fecda47b6d

Originally Posted by Bao

A few meetings lately have made me thinking about my own flaws and gaps. (Yeah, I have a lot of those )
One of the things I am trying to understand better is the relationship between root/ground and the center. My teachers focused much on rooting, but less on developing a strong center. And I have never read anything in depth about the relationship between this parts. I find it strange. Is it so that some arts tend to focus more on one area and less on the other?

What do you focus on? What is more important for you - a strong root or a strong center?
How do you think when you attack? Attack the middle or the base?

Subitai = In my school...I teach 1st that the most direct representation of the center is looking at a person as if to see through them to the "Spine". ( Yes the spine goes down to the kua) No real reason to make a mountain out of it...if I push a guys shoulder in ANY direction but towards the spine, then i'm not pushing at his center. If I can get my hand directly over his sternum i'll take that as well.

In this video I talk about the center a little bit: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewFVuT5KmF4[/youtube]


The way I learned about rooting is that it's not always static...ala keeping your feet still. Lots of good stuff said here already but I want to point out something about Chinese martial arts. For example, in most southern styles, they talk about the "Mah or Horse" in some way. For example, horse stance, bow, cat...ect ect.

Anyway, a Horse is an animal that moves, it's not static. So although many of us train in fixed step type Push hands...we should always utilize free flow and moving as a more realistic next step in the process.

I'm literally saying that rooting is not just being statically planted, balanced and firm. Balance and control while moving is just as important...i.e. a moving root.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Originally Posted by windwalker

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrflZifKIuw&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrfl...ature=youtu.be

a good clip IMO, much of what is talked about can be directly related to practices related to developing awareness "root" and "center"

Does this mean that your c.o.m changes when you make contact with your opponent?

Subitai = I think we all have different ideas on what "access to a persons Center" is or what in the video being shown "defining the C.O.M." is for our purposes as martial artists.

As a fighter I only wish to access my opponents center in so much that it benefits me...but also I realize that my opponent is standing on 2 feet. That in and of itself is important. I think that video on COM is interesting and educational but it's kinda of western in thinking. What I mean by that is no CMA teacher i've ever come in contact with needs to explain it with such science. It's not necessary.

In his theory, if my body was a ruler and my opponent merely pushes my shoulder, he can affect my COM. In his example my COM would spin. But the problem is those are inanimate objects and humans have many joints and pivot points attached and surrounding our COM. So much so that many taji styles train as if to put an "Infinity" symbol (sideways figure 8) at each joint. Also, there is almost the implication that if you affect my COM than i'm defeated, not true.


From a fighting or push hands point of view:
* With his theory... big deal, it's not affecting in a significant way. Pivot one side of my body empty and the other becomes full. What has to happen is the persons center has to be disrupted off or unbalanced from 2 feet touching the ground, that's in fixed step or moving. In other words if I make you move and not just pivot, I catch you when you're adjusting.

I prefer, the example of a ball in the water; I know what the COM of the ball is and I also know how to move it:
- If I try to submerge the ball by pushing on just one side of it...it will spin and give back, thus to no avail.

- The trick is how to push the ball in order to control it and keep it submerged...for that you're not just controlling the COM but also what is attached to it.

we must take into account the medium of what the ball is sitting in and how that is also us. . For us humans our COM is ultimately connected to the ground via 2 feet.

Or you could just pull the ball out of the water...heheh. John will love that, he prefers PULL.

Again, I think the video has value and I don't want to turn it into a theory fest. But I also wanted to point out a different point of view.