More Important-Throwing/Wrestling (Shuai) or Submission (Na)

A question for all you Chinese grapplers or grapplers in general. What do you feel is more important, throw or submit. Yes, I know both are important, I want to know which you feel is more beneficial to be better at. Please don't turn this into a Kung Fu has no grappling or Chin Na is not the same as BJJ, most all of usrecongnize that yes, Chin Na does not compare to BJJ or Judo Newaza in regards to submission. Just looking for opinions. Personally I feel for street self defense throws and wrestling are of more importance. However, for MMA competition I believe submission work to be more important. Thoughts?

Throw then submit.

Shuai is more important you can always beat them into sumbission.

i say throw...but i only concern myself with self defense...so i am skewed to that end.

Is Na submit?

I thought it was catch, hold or lock?

i thot it meant to lock/break...i dunno tho i no speakie

Maybe 嗆了 (Qiāng le / choke out) lol...


giyf :p

The division (definition?) isn't working for me. I understand looking at throws and submissions separately...but how can wrestling be separated from submissions (or throws)? All that's left is rolling around aimlessly...

standing grappling with strikes, control and finish baby :)

failing that subs

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Originally Posted by Iron_Eagle_76

A question for all you Chinese grapplers or grapplers in general. What do you feel is more important, throw or submit. Yes, I know both are important, I want to know which you feel is more beneficial to be better at. Please don't turn this into a Kung Fu has no grappling or Chin Na is not the same as BJJ, most all of usrecongnize that yes, Chin Na does not compare to BJJ or Judo Newaza in regards to submission. Just looking for opinions. Personally I feel for street self defense throws and wrestling are of more importance. However, for MMA competition I believe submission work to be more important. Thoughts?

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That is a tough one dude...the Judoka in me says Throw but the BJJ in me say submit.
Both are of equal value of course, the situation will dictate which one is prioritized or best suited.

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Originally Posted by David Jamieson

Is Na submit?

I thought it was catch, hold or lock?

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Just trying to put the Chinese flavor on it.:cool:

Catch, hold, lock could be construed as submit. Most Chin Na I have learned was a lock, choke, or break used to incapacitate someone, or make them submit, which is what I was getting at.

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Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

That is a tough one dude...the Judoka in me says Throw but the BJJ in me say submit.
Both are of equal value of course, the situation will dictate which one is prioritized or best suited.

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This is the kind of answer I was looking for. Most of us would agree that both are important, but which is better in your eyes and why. I love rolling and working submissions, but I prefer throws and takedowns, also love doing clinch work.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinDan

The division (definition?) isn't working for me. I understand looking at throws and submissions separately...but how can wrestling be separated from submissions (or throws)? All that's left is rolling around aimlessly...

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They can and are seperated. That doesn't mean they are ignored or not worked, just certain styles don't work them as much. BJJ concentrates much more on groundwork and submission and not as much on throws and takedowns as compared to most Judo and wrestling. The opposite effect can be said of Judo or wrestling's submissions. I am not making a blanket statement here, as I know there are exceptions but generally speaking this is how it is.

Hey Iron,
It was the 'throwing/wrestling or submission' that confused me...No questions if I ignore the '/wrestling' bit.

That said, both important and situational. However, for me submission is more important because my throws always turn into rolls or trips...which are good to set up a submission, but no good for taking someone out by themselves.

people get up from throws all the time, no one gets up from being choked out :)