"The Joke has gone to far" - Marcello Teixeira

Read this message guys. I think it relates to alot of members on this board verbally abusing CMA practitioners as well.

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/y...num=1025490797

Quote:

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I fear for the future of Xing Yi Quan.

When a person comes to a forum like this one asking  if the XY practitioners, no matter if they are students or teachers are able to fight, this single fact show us that we are not recognized as fighters anymore, just like Taiji people we are the jokes in the mma gyms and JJ schools. We are the dreamers, the fools, but never the fighters.It's been like this for years now. The situation is more that serious already.
 I'm not saying  that the practitioners and teachers of Xing Yi have that to abandon itheir tasks and to become athletes, but I affirm that iit s time to seat down  and to talk on what it is happening ito our style.  

Do not interest me to be critical about Kung Fu in general; I do not practice Kung Fu. I am against the use of a generic term to define hundreds of different styles.  I teach and practice Xing Yiquan and it is only about this style that interests me to talk.

I'm not  arguing about what's wrong or right, the question is to argue the present and the future of our style.

I know that a lot of people practice internal styles only for  health, but in reality Xing Yi is a martial art in its essence.  I practice and teach XY as martial art and direct my words here to the people that think as I do.

Some months ago I sent both David and Jarek an e-mail about my idea of creating an International Xing Yiquan Council. I decided to e-mail them just because they were the only people with who I have had some contact over the internet.  I believe that only in joining we will be able to spread out and to change people's ideas of what XYQ really is.

Right know,we have a lot of people from other styles, that don't have not even a basic knowledge of XY, but they use their foundation in other styles as a "bridge" to "teach" XY. There are also the guys that go to China, learn forms and go back with certificates. New XYQ "masters" from the Coca-cola culture. Many of them will be in Taiyuan next month.
XYQ has to be recognized as a fighting art, it has also to be independent from other styles or from the "kungfu" term. It needs to be recognized as a single and unique system of martial art, possessing proper name and proper structure.  Please think for a moment of the japanese martial arts. They are recognized individually with their independent structures, are recognized by their names. You have karate, aikido, judo, jiujitsu, and so one. You don't have a specific term for the japanese martial arts as we have in "kungfu".  In the chinese martial arts, no matter what style or what martial arts you do, you will always be seen as the "kung fu guy".  What are the common aspects of Hongjiaquan, Mizongquan or Xingyiquan?  Taking off the Chinese origin, nothing.

Time has come to fight for the XYQ style. We can't wash our hands while charlatans throw the XYQ good name in the mud. We can't be the jokes anymore; something has to be done. Only if we join hands and create a structure that supports students and teacher, we can reach this goal. People have to think of us as fighters, not as jokes. We need to be respected.

I don't know if I can do it alone, so I am asking for help.
The time has come. Support us; make a difference.

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He makes an interesting point.

Mercello is anything but nieve. He lives in Brazil, and is a real fighter.

His POINT about Japanese, if you re-read his post, is that they do not have one term for Japanese martial arts such as the Chinese do with the term 'Kung Fu'. Thats it.

ok for one that guy has it really wrong. he wants to make an enterprise out of it. kung fu in chinese translates into hard work or at least it does in cantonese.

any cma you achieve high levels through HARD WORK. not by the style you practise.

it's amazingly ignorant to seperate yourself from the group. yes xingyi is a different method of system but it has the same purpose as all other styles in cma. bottom lin eis xingyi, hung gar, wing chun, tai chi. they are all cma. cma is kung fu.

each style is different of course, with structure and everything. what good is it making people aware? so you can gain more students and brin gin more cash? yeah maybe but that's not the point. point is i'm not trying to be mean there's just no point in the society.

martial arts of ANY kind can become a joke. the reason they become jokes is because they are poorly represented by people who say oh i take kung fu for 3 years so you can't beat me. so the big tall guy smacks the guy over the head and he falls over.

that's when any style becomes a joke. japanese styles are mainly hard styles and they are very practical. this allows you to train a fighter quickly in a shorter amount of time than say cma because of cma's complexity. if you take a look at alot of cma you need years of stance work and forms before you can actually begin to apply them successfully.

xingyi and cma is no joke. it's just a joke when it becomes poorly represented. if people laugh at your style let them laugh because you know if they want to test you, you can sure as hell kick their ass.

I have been derided for saying this before, but hsing-i and pa-kua have been traditionally taught together for the last hundred years and those who want to separate them are teachers not having recieved the full training. they are complimentary. next point, who cares what people say? only your ego. you know if it works or not. they will feel the penetration or force of the strike if they choose to test it. The misconceptions about Tai Chi Chuan arise from it's slow appearance. Those who practise it "not as a martial art" are few and fade away quickly down the wind. Anyone who sees Hsing-i can see it is a shot gun blast of power.

"I have been derided for saying this before, but hsing-i and pa-kua have been traditionally taught together for the last hundred years and those who want to separate them are teachers not having recieved the full training."

You weren't derided for it; it was simply pointed out that this statement was false.

As was noted before, your assertion derides the skill of well-known contemporary practitioners like Xie Peiqi, He Jinbao, Ma Chuanxu, Liu Jingru, Liang Qiang Ya, Yang Guo Tai, most (all?) of the group under Liu Yun Qiao & Su Yu Chang, Park Bok Nam, etc. and historical practitioners like Dong Hai-Chuan (!!!), Yin Fu, Ma Gui, Ma Weiqi, Liang Zhenpu, Li Zimming, Liu Dekuan, Shi Jidong, Gong Baotian, etc.

Where's the evidence for what you are saying?

Brad, check out the post 2 down "xingyiquan" and you will see there are others that agree with me. Besides oral tradition, the esteemed author Robert W. Smith is one source. Perhaps by 'contemporary' you must mean very recent. I have heard of some of the guys you listed i.e. park bok nam et al but i am not sure they would not agree with me also. i do gather however that some pakuachang has been incorporated into these styles of only "hsing-i". perhaps that is the issue and you did not realize what you are practising.

Sorry, which thread contained the people agreeing with you? I couldn't find it.

"Besides oral tradition"

What oral tradition? It's not in either of the songs, for example.

"the esteemed author Robert W. Smith is one source"

The same Robert W. Smith who claims bagua's primary martial skill is walking around people until they get dizzy and fall over?

Could you provide a quote or source for him stating that anyone wanting to separate xingyi and bagua has recieved incomplete training?

"Perhaps by 'contemporary' you must mean very recent"

I gave both contemporary and historical examples.

"but i am not sure they would not agree with me also."

Since they all studied bagua but not xingyi, and they all taught bagua, but not xingyi, I'd be surprised if they believed that teaching bagua without xingyi is incomplete.

"i do gather however that some pakuachang has been incorporated into these styles of only 'hsing-i'."

You're confused. Everyone I mentioned was a bagua practitioner, not a xingyi practitioner.

Dear folks,
my name is Bruno Lima Rocha, from POrto Alegre, Brazil, a senior student from si-fu Marcello Teixeira. For those that don´t him nor us, he´s the inheritor of Dr. Wu Chaoxiang, 2nd geaneration of Che I Tzai, and he enmigrated to Brazil from Taiwan in the late 60s. Marcello started with him in 1978 and inheritted his system in 1995, when was baptized in chinese as Ma Hei Kao.
Well, our proposal is to unify, in the best form of organization as possible, with no bureaucracy, the kwoons with martial applicability (like ours), worldwide for the XY development and no let happen with XY what has been passing with other chinese arts. We know that this is kind of polemical but we do accept all other suggestions to preserve our art from charlatans. At least, we would like to keep on discussing this subject. We also ask you to please visit our website:
www.xingyitchuen.com.br and take a look on our articles printed in David Devere´s page: www.emptyflower.com/xingyiquan
Best regards
from Brasil
Bruno