Wing Chun and JKD

I currently train WC but am seriously considering training JKD as well. Initially I intend to train both. My motivations for wanting to train JKD in no particular order are.

- more training in general
- I dislike the WC footwork and rightly or wrongly believe JKD teaches more fluid natural, boxing style footwork
- I think chi-sau is a useful drill teaching good skills but there is IMHO a massive over reliance on it in WC
- I want more sparring practice
- I want a more intense physical aspect to my training
- I think forms training (beyond the point where you're able to perform the techniques to a reasonable standard) is wasted time.

I'm interested in opinions on cross training the two styles and whether JKD is likely to address some of the above frustrations I have with WC.

Thanks

How long have you been training WC?

Have you sparred people from other styles?

Of the reasons you listed none of them seem to be things you cant do without dropping your WC training?

Who are you looking to start training JKD under?

Ultimatly training martial art is incumbent on you, and secondly the teacher, not the style he claims.

I say train under the best martial artist you can find, regardless of what banner he holds, and train hard on your own no matter what.

I 'switched' from "WCK" to "JKD" only because my WCK teacher moved away.

I dislike the WC footwork and rightly or wrongly believe JKD teaches more fluid natural, boxing style footwork

Regardless, they both will teach you only drills. What happens when you fight is a different story.

I'm interested in opinions on cross training the two styles and whether JKD is likely to address some of the above frustrations I have with WC.

I doubt "JKD" is the answer. You should ask your current instructor about some of these things. Depending on who you hook up with "JKD" may just mess up whatever game you have already. In some places JKD is as bad as any other "style" or worse. Teacher, teacher, teacher.

:eek:

How long have you been training WC?

- A little over 2 years

Have you sparred people from other styles?

- Not really although when I do spare with a couple of other guys the attacks thrown tend to be haymakers, hooks, crosses, combinations more natural style as opposed to WC attacks.

Of the reasons you listed none of them seem to be things you cant do without dropping your WC training?

- I agree and right now I dont intend to drop WC. I hope that JKD will provide an outlet for a little more hands on reality based training, expose me to some different ideas and slightly more open minded thinking but still allow me to apply WC principles and techniques.

Who are you looking to start training JKD under?

- A guy who is affiliated to Paul Vunak.

Ultimatly training martial art is incumbent on you, and secondly the teacher, not the style he claims.

- Again I agree up to a point, but I dont set the tone or the agenda for the classes I attend.

I say train under the best martial artist you can find, regardless of what banner he holds, and train hard on your own no matter what.

- I agree, good general advice but there are some things you cant train on your own.

I 'switched' from "WCK" to "JKD" only because my WCK teacher moved away.

I dislike the WC footwork and rightly or wrongly believe JKD teaches more fluid natural, boxing style footwork

Regardless, they both will teach you only drills. What happens when you fight is a different story.

- Exactly my problem with some aspects of WC. I think the closer you train to reality the more likely you will be able to bridge the gap from training to reality when you need to. WC footwork is very unnatural. I'd rather do drills that are similar to the natural footwork I will fall back onto under pressure.


I'm interested in opinions on cross training the two styles and whether JKD is likely to address some of the above frustrations I have with WC.

I doubt "JKD" is the answer. You should ask your current instructor about some of these things. Depending on who you hook up with "JKD" may just mess up whatever game you have already. In some places JKD is as bad as any other "style" or worse. Teacher, teacher, teacher.

- I have gently discussed these things and the responses I got didnt satisfy me. Ultimately it is up to him to teach how he wants and for me to explore other options if I feel the training isnt meeting my needs. This is what I am doing.
Yes teacher is important, but lets imagine for the sake of argument the teacher's are of equal skill.


- Thanks for your comments.

i gave you a answer on the wing chun forum

but to comment further ,
vunaks guys have been the best all around street fighters i have come across , but like all things not all of them .
if they listen to paul and have spent a long time under him they will understand attribute development .

since you only have 2 years in wing chun , you haven't even scratched the surface and sadly some linages stretch the learning curve way to long .

were in the jkd or concepts approach you get [[[ experiences ]]] right away . and under a good eye and hard work you learn faster , but there are no short cuts ,
no magic pill,
if you hate forms , then you might need a new path , i hate them as well and only do them when i have to teach a new student .

but remember sparring with out a goal or a skill to refine is just as bad as doing empty forms , beyond a work out you can do more damage then good '' bad habits '' so amke sure you follow a logical progression.

and so don't get side tracked by the so called jkd lines that teach classes at seperate times , like savate at 3 and thai at 4 and bjj at 5 and trapping at 6 and so on this defeats the purpose of training in jkd , you must be able to flow and switch gears from any range or position , this is only accomplished by training them all together in a sybiotic fashion so you can see how things mold together.

Ryu will probably comment on paul Vunak. I say do it.

WCK has a slower learning curve, like many CMA's that make its footwork and ideas about powered structure etc seem un-natural. Because they are. I agree with you and so does most of the MMA/JKD world that training as close as possible to 'reality' will make fighting in reality that much more effective. I also think that hard work in Wing Chun will give you a great tool box to work from.

I hope that JKD will provide an outlet for a little more hands on reality based training, expose me to some different ideas and slightly more open minded thinking but still allow me to apply WC principles and techniques.

As long as this guy is up to snuff, then thats exactly what he will do for you. 'Specially if you already have a firm grasp on the WCK you have been training. The group I train with believes that you should be exposed to as many different training methods and theorys etc as possible.

If teachers are of equal skill, then train with both of them, my point earlier was that you should not go learn from this other person just because he calls what he teaches JKD, but because as a teacher he can broaden your understanding and martial ability.





:eek:

If u have been training wing chun for more than 2 years and have not progressed to all out sparring then it's CRAP.

If u are sparring guys who will attempt to punch or tackle you then u're def. on the right path. Do more of it!

If u're training with a guy who is affiliated to Paul Vunak then understand that emphasis will be more muy thai than wing chun or original jkd trapping. They focus on street fighting based on the RAPID ASSAULT TACTICAL. Total forward pressure attack!!!

The answer for street effectiveness is to spar! How to do u get better at anythang is to keep doing it. But for the STREET u have to spar...many traditional styles do not spar ENUF...too much time spent on doing forms etc...SPAR SPAR SPAR.

I think to say that you need all out sparring within 2 years or it's crap is a bit of an exaggeration but I pretty much agree with most of your comments, and my personal experience having now been to a couple of classes kind of backs up what you are saying about there being more of a MT and less of a WC influence.
This is going to make it pretty difficult to train these in parallel so now I have to give it some more thought.

Good kuck with jkd. I dont think that you have had sufficient exposure to good wing chun. Please see comments on your post in brackets.

- more training in general

((How much you train is upto you- so what's the beef?))


- I dislike the WC footwork and rightly or wrongly believe JKD teaches more fluid natural, boxing style footwork

((Doesnt sound as though you learned much wing chun footwork))


- I think chi-sau is a useful drill teaching good skills but there is IMHO a massive over reliance on it in WC

((Really with limited exposure- you are pontificating on wing chun.
But still good luck with jkd))

- I want more sparring practice

((With gloves? Without gloves? Depends on what circles you move atound in. I am not commenting on jkd- but I saw wc in the thread- hence my curiosity.))

If u're not doing all out sparring within 6 months of training than it's surely is CRAP! How do u get good at anythang??? By drilling in the beginning but the true test of appliance of techniques is to go against RESISTING opponents. Whether it's boxing, wreslting, kung fu, riding a bike, swimming...u're going to have to get to that point soon. Did it take u 2 years before u actually rode a bike? Did it take you 2 years to actually play a pick up game of basketball? Martial arts or since u're concern with REAL FIGHTING is the same way...u should be using what u know within 6 months. There are plenty of wing chun skools that within 3 months teach progressive sparring and eventually lead to full contact. The logic is there! To apply sumthang u need to be tested safely...with sparring partners and coaches. Wear the gear and go at it! U'll learn alot about PAIN TOLERANCE.