taoists: letting go of ego and petty desires without killing basic joy

yeah weird thread for the gda.

i recently spent a week in the hospital, and during that time i did a lot of reading, meditating, and general self reflection. i made some small progress in identifying things in my daily life that were completely ego or desire driven without any actual real benifit.

i also have made some smaller progress in letting go of some of these things and while i feel that i'm much calmer and a little more clear on some things, i have also found myself enjoying a few things less.

take porn for instance. i have deleted over half of my porn collection. not because i suddenly dont like porn, but simply because most of it simply wasn't "doing it for me" and i was extremely picky about the quality of my collection to begin with. this might sound really dumb to the lot of you, but my porn collection was something i took very seriously all up to about 10 days ago and now its just kinda meh. it's other things too ... but porn was the first thing i really noticed.

it's not that i really mind .... but that in itself is kinda the problem. it feels more stoic, stale, and dead than empty and open. and i don't think it's the right direction in taoism but i guess i really don't know. i like not getting angry at video games so much anymore, but i'm not as into it either. is this something typical to go through, or am i just weeding out the nonsense in my life? i just always hear about the basic joy and goodness in taoism and im either going about letting go of things in the wrong way (suppressing them) or im looking to the wrong things for joy. or maybe something else all togeather.

does anyone even have a clue as to what im talking about or am i more confused than i think?

First off, you could have hooked me up with the material you deleted beforehand.

Second off, I have no useful input.

Sounds like you're aging... You've hit that point in life where you're noticing the passions of your youth mean less and less as you age. You'll probably end up identifying some of your more meaningfull needs so you can spend your available resources on what really matters to you in the long run over the stuff you used to do to pass the time.

As far as taoist thinking - who is to say what is good or bad... just try to stay balanced and be realistic about yourself and your environment.

I've been doing the same thing. I've been staying out of class because of an injury and I'm learning more about myself. I've been reading taoist and zen stuff and it's a very introspective experiece. More taiji and qigong; feeling my energy more, paying more attention to my movement.

After I practiced gong fu a while, I started to lose interest in certain things. The porn bit doesn't sound dumb. I'm not really into porn as much as I used to be. It's flat and isn't alive. Not to say it's bad. One way to blow off some steam, anyway. You can temporarily raise your testosterone by looking at porn. It's not great and not terrible, let's put it like that.

I think what you're feeling is typical, that is to say, it's not wrong or unhealthy. Anyway, good for you hacking away and simplifying your life.

GDA,

think of it like watching a movie. enjoy it while watching it and when it end, let it go.

happiness is a state of mind. If you are calm, you can find a natural state of peacefulness and happiness. It isn't as exciting as some of the externally induced happiness, but it last longer. you can return to it whenever you want and you can choose if you are going to be happy.

external stimuli induced happiness comes and goes. eventually you need a higher dose of the external stimuli to induce the same level of happiness. The dosage needed only goes up as you become jaded to the stimuli.

the porn thing, throw it all out if you can. I tossed out my some years back. don't listen to vash. don't pass it on him or to any other people for that matters. You really want to avoid that. really.

I don't want to sound preachy. Just think of it as a friendly advise. people associated with porn industry generally don't end well. Each porn that one pass on to other people is a count against him. The more he pass out, the more count there is. Then, when other people pass it on, the originator get another partial count. It isn't until all of the porn is completely gone do the adding of count stops.

I know you have it pretty tough and you don't need anyone to tell you what to do with your life. but, this is something you really want to avoid.

As I got older, I also got rid of some things that used to be important to me. Seems like you. To lose the sad or empty feeling, I needed to find something new to fill the space. It ended up being simpler things, and also one or two things that I enjoyed a long, long time ago recycled in a slightly different form. I feel happier now every day, although maybe not as high/low as before. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's good enough for me. It doesn't feel like a compromise or letdown--it feels good.

(As that was my first post, I guess I should say hello to everyone. I'm a hunggar practitioner from Savannah. I have also started to learn a little bit of xingyi, which is why I'm on this internal board. Hoping to learn some things.)

Greetings...

Simplify, simplify, simplify!!! then, when you have simplified all you can, simplify some more.. that will allow the natural joy and ecstasy that is inherent in living to emerge.. it is the complexities that we blindly accept that hide our simple and natural joy.. without the complexities to deceive us clarity emerges and we can see symbiosis of all things working in harmony..

The "basic joy" is always there but too often we overlook it in our misplaced need to organize and control our surroundings and our lives.. Joy arises from spontanaeity, from the pure awe and rush of surprise as life unfolds before us... it is our training in the internal arts that prepares us to accept this unfolding in a natural and calm spirit.. knowing that we are prepared to accept whatever unfolds.. it is like surfing, we generally understand wave action but each wave (situation) is unique..and after years of surfing (training) we learn to deal with the surprises nature (life/conflict) throws at us.. what is left is the joy of living in the moment as life unfolds... simplifying our lives allows us time to simply be in the moment, to live life on the cutting edge..

Be well...

There's nothing inherently wrong with porn, masturbation or sex. When taken to excess, any of those things can be unhealthy, and that is the basic premise of what taoism is attempting to explain when it emphasizes the importance of being balanced and at peace. When there is inner peace, we are not in conflict with ourselves, there is no "part of ourselves attempting to fight and criticize some other part of ourselves. It is one self."
TaiChiBob encourages simplification. Simplicity can be simple (no pun intended) and difficult all depending on how it is approached. If you are having difficulty simplifying then you are already missing the point of simplifying (get it?). If not, think of it like this.
When I was young I used to put together puzzles. I'd pour out all the pieces and start trying to put them together and seeing which ones fit. I'd refernece the box cover to see what the final picture would look like (unless I wanted a surprise). I'd group pieces together that were similar in color. The reds would all go in a red pile, blues in a blue pile, etc. This is an example of simplifying things. I first make a decision about how I want to organize, in this case, by grouping by color, and then I go with that method. After that, I can go further, and group edged pieces that are red with other edges pieces, and so on. Eventually I no longer have a huge pile of pieces but instead organized groups of pieces that are simplified and more easily approachable. Perhaps you organized your porn collection in a similar way, lesbian, gangbang, migits*x, etc. This is one method simplification and it can lend towards easing ones troubles by making challenges that seem insurmountable (like a very challenging puzzle with a lot of pieces) seem do-able.

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Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
Sounds like you're aging... You've hit that point in life where you're noticing the passions of your youth mean less and less as you age. You'll probably end up identifying some of your more meaningfull needs so you can spend your available resources on what really matters to you in the long run over the stuff you used to do to pass the time.

As far as taoist thinking - who is to say what is good or bad... just try to stay balanced and be realistic about yourself and your environment.

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most people seem to do this from the ages of 19-22 abouts for all males I have known in my life (including myself). seems that a search for a deeper meaning and philosophy stuff starts to become more into focus. it can be kind of annoying to hear people talk all about it all the time (some can be annoying with it, others more personal). it is part of growing and is a good thing :)

just be sure to pay bills on time and do not mess up your credit, hehe (which I am still correcting, trying to get a good mortgage).

I struggled with this a bit (not so much the porn thing). I like what WanderingMonk said about letting things go after. Please have fun, just keep everything in perspective and keep your sense of humor. There is no reason why being "taoist" or whatever should mean that you don't have fun. If you find that some things are not so fun anymore, get off your ass and discover new things. Just don't be a slave to your emotions or anything else for that matter.

:D gda; you're alright, dude.

Just take it one day at a time. Your finally opening your eyes about life but it wont come to you all at once. Your already way ahead of the pack. Just go with the flow is my motto :D

You know whats been hard as hell to give up tho? Death metal! Im trying my best to find something else to fill the void but theres nothing like it. 100 double kicks a minute, dueling guitars wailing a sick riff, the bass chugga luggin away, guy wailing like its hes repeatedly bein kicked in the sacks.

Aaaaah the memories. What am i talking about? Im playing it right now. Its just so hard to find that level of musicianship played with some energy that i can get into. Everything else seems booooring compared to it.

Anyway. The most important thing GDA is ta aaalways no matter what have a positive outlook on things. Whether your Taoist Buddhist Christian Hindu Wiccan or whatever. They all say thats the most important thing.

Hi GDA,

When I consider Taoist principles I always think about Yin-Yang. Yin-Yang is such a simple symbol, yet it tells us all we need to know concerning the Tao.

There is constant movement and rhythm to life. Life is a process of change. There are shifting and alternating periods of growth, focus and priorities; an ebb and flow, if you will.

Growth proceeds in ebbs and flows. Tao is nothing more then the pattern or flow of life. Anything that happens in life is part of that pattern, and therefore normal. It is our interpretation of experiences that may cause conflict within us, not the experience itself.

One of the misconceptions pertaining to Yin-Yang is that it illustrates the dynamic interplay of opposites. This is an erroneous view. It is actually the dynamic interplay of contrasting principles. When we understand the symbolism as contrasting principles it clears up some very common misunderstandings. When we believe Yin-Yang to be the interplay of opposites the consequence is we tend to view experiences and phenomena as right or wrong, good or bad. But something is only good or bad, right or wrong in relation to what it is contrasted with. One of my favorite examples that I have used on this board previously is the example of bowls of water:

Let us say we have 3 bowls of water. One bowl is 40*F, one is 60*F, and one is 80*F. The 60*F bowl of water is considered either warm or cold depending upon which other bowl it is contrasted with. If we contrast it with 40*F water it is felt to be warm, but if we contrast it with the 80*F water we experience it as cold. The 60*F bowl is neither warm nor cold, it is merely 60*F, but we will label our experience of the water based upon how we have chosen to contrast it.

So in life the quality or value of our experiences are measured by how we contrast them. This is where you are with your new experience. You are attempting to integrate a change in perspective into your life and attempting to determine how to categorize it. Is it good, or bad? But it is neither good nor bad. It just is, and as demonstrated by Yin-Yang, it will change as well.

It is possible you may eventually regret discarding some or all of your porn collection. Sex is a part of our biology, but how we choose to experience it is based upon how we choose to contrast it. Right now your perspective has changed and therefore your measure of the experience has changed. Your measure may change back, or it may change to something else, but it will change. Sex is a part of life, and that will not change. But there are ebbs and flows in desire and how we focus our attention. The ebb in this area of your life corresponds with a flow in another area.

If it seems stale to you then you are in an ebb, but there will be a flow at some point and you will be feeling randy again, LOL!!! The same with the empty or stoic feelings as well; as your life continues this will pass.

Do not confuse joy with enjoyment. Joy is a state of being that flows from the inside out, enjoyment results from an activity that pleases us and flows from the outside in. When we find balance there can be joy in every experience including ones commonly interpreted as bad or unhappy experiences. Why is this? Bad experiences are interpreted as bad because we contrast them with experiences we would rather have. So how we choose to view our experiences is what determines their value to us. There is no inherent value in any experience only the value we decide to give it.

As you learn to cease imposing value onto experiences you are left with the joy that flows from the inside out. All experiences may be enjoyed then and you will not feel the need to either save or discard your porn collection, you will be able to play your video games without depending on them to bring you joy or using them to measure your level of enjoyment.

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Originally posted by Nexus
There's nothing inherently wrong with porn, masturbation

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I don't want to side track GDA's thread but this statement is just really misleading. although basic premise of taoism is to maintain balance, porn and masturbation violates several basic taoist tenants/guidelines required to be followed for many practices. saying there's nothing wrong with it is actually ....... far from correct.

pornography is listed as the number one evil deed one can do. porn generate lust. lust generate misdeeds. excessive exposure to porn change the mental perspection of what is acceptable. sex crimes and and adultery some times follows. It sets off successive actions.

the thought of interacting with a female who is not your wife is a violation. thought in itself is action. so although one might break no law of Man, he is allowing his mind to be influence by the porns which he has exposed himself to. he is no longer in complete control.