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Hi, Timing the way everthing is?
Doing the Little Idea form. There are 108 moves or parts! O.k know timing comes in! You start with a count in your head... 1,2,3,4. Do you count for every move? Or do you count 1 and 2 and 3 ect. I've been playing music for 13 years and this timing is everything! I put this timing into the forms for a flowing feel?
what do you think about timing??
Do you use it? How do you?
And there is out of time..or out of sync.
Cheers ......................Jeff williams :)
Hmm, interesting concept looking at forms akin to music pieces.
No, I don't count the moves OR the time between the movements.
It is more kinesthetic ie about feel and precision of movement.
Flow here is more about ability to maintain structure during transition of movements, all the while listening to yourself in terms of reducing tension, stiffness, maintaining balance and driving energy through the appropriate structures.
The dummy is more of a rythm thing IMO.
I've seen a number of very accomplished practitioners work the dummy, and IMO each set has a audible rythm of its own.
That said, I suggest you not get too attached to this. Fighting is more about broken rythm.
The SLT translate to little idea. It is the first form in wing chun. The idea behind it is to do the form with little thought, and build up basic structure from the YJKGM. Also it helps develope the first steps of building up and releasing chi. Its a form to lay down the foundation of WCK. A big part of wing chun is sensitivity, so being able to feel what you are doing but not dwelling on it would be ideal. I think thinking about rythm might develope bad habbits.
However, this thread has reminded me of some neat training techniques my sifu has taught us in the past. My sifu at one point was a drummer. To build up hand/eye/foot/left/right coordination he taught us to do parry diddles (not sure if I spelled that right, cuz I am not a drummer) with our hands and feet. Then try using your left hand and then your right foot and do parry diddles. Then switch it up over and over. I will leave all the countless combinations out of this converstaion and I think you all could figure it out. This won't really help your kung fu per se, but it really helps build up individual limb coordination. So I definately think there is merit in incorporating music into your training, especially if its something you love. I love music a lot, I am just not really a musician.
I think it's a good idea as long as you don't rely on. It could be a useful training to for a while. Teaching yourself that you also have an external rythm (your opponent's) that you must also handle, and then control.
Hi Jeff,Quote:
Originally posted by redtornado
Hi, Timing the way everthing is?
Doing the Little Idea form. There are 108 moves or parts! O.k know timing comes in! You start with a count in your head... 1,2,3,4. Do you count for every move? Or do you count 1 and 2 and 3 ect. I've been playing music for 13 years and this timing is everything! I put this timing into the forms for a flowing feel?
what do you think about timing??
Do you use it? How do you?
And there is out of time..or out of sync.
Cheers ......................Jeff williams :)
There is a rhythm in how the body moves unlike any musical rhythm. It can be seen in the movements of really great athletes and in the movements of little children before they become self-conscious, controlling how they look as they run and play.
The body's true rhythm contributes to Wing Chun's timing, structure, and positional principles.
Broken rhythm, as Andrew notes, plays off of disrupting your opponent's natural grace.
And as the Bullet-proof Monk (my acknowledgement of Hendrik) would say: "It's not about power; it's about grace.
Regards,
which is still about your own rythym ;) I'm a dancer (..er..ex-dancer) and gotta say, the music's always helped me..haven't you seen kung pow? :DQuote:
Originally posted by Grendel
Broken rhythm, as Andrew notes, plays off of disrupting your opponent's natural grace.
Hello, I found out that there are three times for doing the forms.......1. slow, 2. med. 3. fast.
Redtornado,
I play music too... I would suggest doing your forms out of time. Any sychopation or pulse you might place on your training could inhibit your growth or awareness of your energy flow. As we are not doing some choreographed moves. There is alot of truth to your body's having it's own internal rhythm. Gaining awareness of it means ridding yourself of outside influences.
Free your mind, so that if five minutes passes, or 30 minutes passes, it feels like the same thing...
This is just from my own experience of course... Perception of time is such a strange phenomenon.
Get a group of people around a table, instruct them to count to 10 seconds, and after that to knock on the table. You'll be surprized at how wide everyone's perception of 10 seconds is.
This correlates to Asian music in general. Unlike western musics, their concept of time is not absolute and strict. The idea of landing on the one, or playing rhythmically together is very very different then western concepts of meter. Randomness and indeterminancy is considered an essential part of the music... as it is in life in general.
I like to think that we can bend time via our own awareness.
Your own broken rhythm is a weapon against your opponent. It's more like playing counterpoint to his melody. :DQuote:
Originally posted by blooming lotus
which is still about your own rythym ;) I'm a dancer (..er..ex-dancer) and gotta say, the music's always helped me..haven't you seen kung pow? :D
When I think of applying music to Wing Chun, I'm taken back to Bill Cosby's old LPs (kids, remember vinyl records?) about his choosing the William Tell Overture as "his tune."
In a fight, it might be disconcerting to have your opponent humming a little ditty as you fight for your life, I suppose. Just dreaming, as Phenix says. :D
Regards,
thats not what I was getting at but LOL anyway.....
are you sure you don't have a flow??? I know real life fighting isn't coreographed tai ji...but you sure you're not stepping to a beat??? :D ;) :p :cool:
FWIW/IMHO and all that---there is some timing built into the
forms which helps with self timing...as a prelude to adjusting timing in working with other people (including chi sao) which in turn helps develop timing in self defense or in fights.
You can tell from the sounds on the dummy whether someone has good self timing. You can tell from chi sao whther someone has
other person timing. Chi sao with many people rather than just one's favorite partner is important-because you become aware of differnt kinds of timing. No two fights are exactly the same and timing can vary with each.
Yes, this is good reply's I understand fully, And I can't wait till I reach Chi sao. Well keep in touch!! There is timing when fighting, but too find the out-time is where you find your hole. A hit!! Well, have a good day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)