"wave hands in clouds"

Does anyone have a pic of this technique? How do you do it, it sounds cool?

~K~
the super-duper supreme

I'm very much a beginner when it somes to kungfu and taiji in particular, but here is what I think.

The dominant feature of cloud hands is obviously a type of movement that affects the hands. It essentially positive circles with the left and right hands.

It's more than just positive circles as there is footwork thrown into the mix.

One example:
One is leading with their left leg. Step out with left leg while pulling left elbow in to start a circle. The right hand is at the centerline but ready to complete its top part of the circle when the body turns. Now turn the body to move the right hand through the top portion of its circle and the left hand through its bottom portion. As you turn back, the right leg moves forward - completing the step. With the turning back, the left hand completes its top portion and the right its bottom.

The left and right hands are a half cycle out of phase with one another.

Ok... my words don't do this topic justice.

-Prairie

tnx, but it's still kinda complicated :confused:
hmm, I thought that u stood still while doing them? :confused:

btw I'm probebly alot more of a beginner than you :D

~K~
the super-duper supreme

There is a lot more waist movement than hand movement in Yunshou (lit. "cloud hand"). A small circle rises on the centre line then opens out at throat height to fall just at the outer edge of the chest. The outward opening of the hand is co-ordinated with an outward turn of the waist, so the hand movement seems to be a large on. The waist neutralizes as the hand falls, and then the waist keeps turning as the hand comes in along the low line to return to the starting position.

The footwork varies considerably between Chen style and Yang style. As well, the other hand complements the movement by being in the opposite place on a similar circle heading the other direction. So the hands rise along the centre line and open outward.

The purpose of Yunshou is to carry the low line and turn an attacking force to the outside. The hands often connect under the opponents upper arm and waist turn will ideally twist them out of their base.

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

Cloud Hands - Pics

here is a link to a pictorial demonstration of 'cloud hands' as done in the standard 24 posture form.

it differs a bit from the way i do it... but, whatever...

the application is more or less the same as judo's harai-goshi (hip throw).

at the MOST basic level, it can just be used to deflect an attack, as a set up for something else.

don't you have to have your opponent behind you to do a hip throw?

thanks alot dudes! very good reply's. :)

~K~
the super-duper supreme

kristoffer:

yes, of course you do...
but, the tai chi 'slow form' does not really show the footwork. - i assume that it was left out to keep things better 'hidden'.

in order to use it, you would have to 'steal step' (dragon step).

but... the same goes for just about every posture in the form. - the footwork is absolutely essential, in order to effectively learn to use the martial applications of the form. - hence the need for a good teacher.

for just about every application, you should be either to the side of the opponent, or even behind him. - if all the tai chi applications you are shown have you just standing in front of the guy... you can pretty much bet, you are missing out on something.

* and no, i would not say that it is a bagua influence. - but, why do you think that the weight is always on one leg or the other, rather than both? - it's for mobility. (also, often the 'empty' leg is used as a leg break / sweep.)