Sparring other styles

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigerlilly:
I spar regularly with one of the guys from Fong's. Interesting EH? He Pays full price just to spar with us on our open mat days...openly admits we're better fighters. I like regularly fighting someone from another style,I am beginning to find ways of sneeking past his sticky hands heh heh[/quote]

This was getting off the original topic, but I think there are some interesting points here so I moved it to it's own thread.

We don't spar in our WC school so I am starting to spar with other styles. I am really looking forward to sparring at a Lo Han school this Saturday. Since you have been sparring with a WC student perhaps you could give me some pointers.

1) What has worked well against you?
2) What hasn't worked for the WC guy?
3) What have you seen as the strengths and weaknesses of WC in sparring?
4) What other styles have you sparred against and what has worked against them?

This was mainly addressed to TigerLilly, but anyone else can feel free to jump in. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

hey I'm glad someone brought up strategy! When ever I've messed around with wing chun students I've used kicks to keep them at bay. Mostly just because I'm a strong kicker and the wing chun people I've fought are pretty close and rigid. The guy I most have sparred with has learned ways to deal with high kicks but hasen't had one kick high at him that much. I always get people with heel hooks to head level.obviously there are some risks in kicking high too. I'll try to sweep them too and do thai boxingish leg kicks if they seem rigid. I just try and through stuff I know they don't usually get thrown at them because I know they drill hard at certain techniques.
My back rounds pretty eclectic so i through what ever i can and try to use variety.
peace

Hmmm well 1.This guy outweighs me by about 65lbs and is 1ft taller than me so he gets blows to the top of my head and my ears. He will also use his feet to break my stances, its more of a push than a kick, usually pushing down as close to where the hip joins the leg as possible. This IS a very good strategy move against Hung gar, breaking the stances in that way.2.What hasn't worked: he is always trying to keep me in front of him.If I attack fom the side,he's vulnerable.This is where I found some "holes" in the armour of sticky hands One combination that works well: step 45 degrees to the right or left kick low to distract,strike up and under the arm right to that beautiful sweet spot on the side of the chin. 3. As dooder pointed out WC is a little rigid, the other thing Ive noticed about WC practitioners: no grappling or ground work, though this may only be Master Fong's crew. I know Master Fong feels grappling is unnecessary, but every street fight I've seen ended on the ground. That reminds me I stomp on this guy's feet and push him right over sometimes. Hold the foot down, push just above the knee.4. Boy have I fought alot of TKW stylists I am to a point where I don't have much respect for the style anymore. I also used to spar with an Aikido stylist, If you move in really close, literally crowd the opponent to the point where they can't grab you, they can't make their moves. This works on the WC guy too.I'm glad you made me think about all this! I will try to be more mindful as I spar this Sat. and see what else I can come up with. I hope this helps MEOW

What's tkw stand for?

Taekwondo, if I do a tournament in my city, I mainly end up fighting at tournaments open to all styles. At my last 3 I was the ONLY kung fu stylist there. I wish I could afford to travel...really.

I did wing chun for a while and i found its biggest problem is its linear backward forward paksau lap sau punch style.

From my experience i donno if most wing chun schools are like this however, two wing chun guys who fight go forwards and backwards never endingly exchanging pak lop and punches.
When someone goes round them they cant really mobilise themselves well . there so used to going straight back. And as dooder said kicks keep them at back.
On the defending side a lot will try and charge with chain punches once they get you off guard. your best bet is to side step and kick, again most wing chun guys cant do this simple sidestep maneuver because they are used to back and forth.

yeah I did American karate for a long time and the TKD guys were always the worst. All kicks and no real fighting skills for the most part. It's so sporty and all. Try and get really unconventional on the wing chun guys if you can get away with it. i don't know

Careful, y'all,

All wing chun is NOT the same. A lot of the strategies I see posted here might work on a linear/Yip Man style wc'er (I wouldn't know), but given what we study in my lineage (gulao/pien san), if you try to crowd or come around the side, you're gonna end up very frustrated.

Just a reminder that if you start thinking that everyone from a certain style does something the exact same way, you could end up very surprised when you meet someone who doesn't fit your plan.

------------------
Peace.
Reverend Tim

ReverendTim carefull now, all YM is not the same [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

WC is as different as the person wants to make it. For example, in Leung Tings version there is no "backward step" you only move because of force your opponent gives you. You do not step back you only allow his pressure to push you back. Also, sidestepping and attacking from angles is an integral part of the system. I would never fight a stronger opponent straight on, I would side step and attack from an angle.

Also, the style as taught by Sifu Chung Kwok Chow in New York city will also involve a lot more footwork and train one to attack and defend against a variety of angles. He also incorporates a bit of grappling and groundfighting, most from BJJ [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

Then there is William Cheungs people who also have a great deal of mobility.

I point out the three above as they are the ones I am most familiar with. All are of YM lineage too.

I think that the problem is a lot of lower level WC guys think that attackign in a straight line and "chain punching the opponent" will work. It won't, unless he is very stupid [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] If these guys do not learn to redirect or change directions then they do get killed. We used to train to attack and have our opponenet constantly change direction. Frustrating as He** but will make you a better fighter and much more versatile. I think another problem is are you learning to fight or just trying to look good.

As to grappling and moving in close. I tell anyone that will listen that WC has grappling/Chin Na. I love using the sensitivity from Chi Sau to either defend against or apply locks. But, on a whole, why lock when you can punch or strike? Locks only helped me as a cop, the boss did not like when I pummelled someone [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] But I did [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I like people that get close to me. Lots of fun then. Also the idea of stepping on your opponents foot is very much a tactic used in Wing Chun. We train to do it all the time. Not to hold his foot but to disrupt his movement and mess with his mind. Although there are a number of methods of using one foot to take the opponenet down. I have to disagree about most real fights goign to the ground, unless you count the guy who lost [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I have been in several and I think I went to the ground once. I just don't like to go down, especially if he has some friends present. I have found a variety of ways to execute standing chokes and other locks and they seem to work. Still, we are all human and I have been knocked on my butt more than once [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I have just been LUCKY enough not to be put down when my life was on the line.

ReverendTim-Love to talk more about your system. Never actually seen it though I have coversed in detail with a few practicioners. Are you in the Boston area by chance? I believe I had asked you about Jim Rosenlando once before and you did not know him but knew of him. You can check out a nice article by Jim at www/wingchunkuen.com.

Peace,

Dave

I want to thank everyone that responded. I now know some pitfalls to avoid and some areas to work on.

.

[This message has been edited by MaFuYee (edited 06-23-2000).]

I have great respect for Wing Chung!(actually, I would like to learn more about Buddha Palms, which is WC? correct me if I'm wrong) This guy is a challenging opponent. I didn't realize that WC uses chi na. Like I guessed before,that's Fong. I think very carefully about taking someone to the ground. I am a very small person and am at a great disadvantage on the ground. It's just size and weight factor. I am occasionally teased about it by literally being sat on by a 230lb.guy(my sifu) Ahem I did think of one more thing, this guy leaves his groin open ALL the time...I kick him at least once every time we spar, just to remind him, but really, that's just him I think, not his style. By the way, I go to a full contact school, it's about 40% cage-fighters. Anything goes. Just in case you're wondering about blows to the head and groin. Hit as hard as you want to be hit yourself is the basic rule.It's hard for me to imagine going to a school where there is no sparring. Kuan is a part of my daily life and helps me feel healthy and balanced, yet I wish to know for certain that I can apply it. How else, but to practice, so I don't get it...

Moved to the top for Ruzhyo.

Thank you highlander, this thread was immensely useful. (Being almost identical to the one i posted in the general forum). For my part, i'm going to take the advice of stepping around and coming in at different angles. My WC training partner is very linear, so it would seem that is my best bet.