To Chaoticmantis and all 8step people

To anyone who is reading this who is affiliated with James Shuyn's version of 8step praying mantis including you Chaoticmantis. I am going to set the record straight once and for all in regards to James Shuyn's fourth generation and being soul inheriter.

I promised myself I would never give my opinions or facts about James Shuyn on this forum. Unfortuneatly Chaoiticmantis has left me no choise being he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. Lemme start off by saying in response to your comment I am yesterdays news and I moved on is far from the truth. I am still actively teaching 8step in Los Angelas and San Francisco and also studying the original authentic version of 8step in San Jose with Master Chang. Master Chang has been a great source of information and I consider him the for-most authority on the original 8step praying mantis system in America. Unfortuneatlly I can't study with him as much as I like but I still consider him as my teacher. I plan to open a school in the Bay Area in 2006. From what Sifu Chang told me James Shuyn is not and was never the fourth generation soul inheriter of eight step praying mantis. Master Chang is a gentlemen and has never said a bad word about James Shuyn. All he told me is the truth about James Shuyn.

Everybody including me has been decieved for many many years. I personally don't have a problem with that because i have no regrets. I learned a great system from a great teacher even though he was not honest with me all those years when I was affiliated with him. I know for a fact, I was there when he was adding joint locks and throws to the system. He took most of the information from various martial arts books. he also gave the impression he knew ground fighting I trained with him everyday for three years and was his number one student and I never once saw him do low mantis or ground fighting forms or sets even though he said it was in the system. Once in while he would show one or two movements and say that is was from the ground fighting mantis and that was it. But looking back through the years I know thats all he knew if not I would have learned it.

By the way Chaoticmantis, Im sorry to say you are delusionary. You don't know what your talking about and I could say that with all honesty especially when your talking about me and what was taught in the school. I don't know why you have this obsession about talking about things you know nothing about. I don't remember you being with James Shuyn everyday like I was in the begining. I learned nine sets that were supposedly originally from 8step now I know they're not the sets Master Wei taught. There are a lot of similarities but they are not the same. I also know all the eights(eight fist, eight hands, eight palms,etc...) were not part of Master Wei's 8step system. There were a lot of things he taught that were not a part of Master Wei's 8step system, but it was good information for what it was and it taught me how to be a good fighter, and just for the record I was his best fighter. If anyone things otherwise you can come to San Francisco and pay me a visit.

Chaoticmantis, as far as about you talking smack about me. you and everybody else who trained with James Shuyn back then, never completed the system or opened a school or taught anybody. You talked but you never walked. I was the ONLY fifth generation that came out of the system, there was nobody else. For years and years I was the only one spreading Shuyn's version of 8step in the country. So you really don't have a lot to say about anything Chaoticmantis(KIM) especially my dirty laundry. I personally don't care what old students said or didn't say about me. My goal was not to win a popularity contest, but to spread the art, something that you never did.

As far as Earthdragon, everything he says is the truth in regards to 8step and James Shuyn. He was and still is my best student. He is overly enthusiastic about the system and tries to find the truth in all the bulls****. Everything he has written about James Shuyn is true. I'm sorry that he was decieved as I was, but he doesn't give up and he still practices and teaches. I give him all the credit he deserves.

So just for the record, anyone who is studing with James Shuyn keep studing with him because he is a good teacher. What he is teaching is a good fighting system if you could learn to apply it. (But just remember to all you federation people out there, as I stated before I came to the realization through a great deal of research and being accepted as a student of Master Chang, that James Shuyn is not what he says he is.)

dragonball (Dean),

You really said a mouthful. I am honored by your posting. Something must have triggered a response from you to bring you out in a public forum.

I don't need to response to your entire post. Most of it has been said many time in this forum and I don't think you want to know who is really delusional. Who performed the 10 mantis set on the video tape for you to take back to Buffalo? If I learned all 10 mantis set, I would not need anyone to video tape it for me. I could go on and on. These are true facts and it is only just the beginning.

I never once dissed you on this site. The only comment was that you were yesterday's news in Sifu's school. I meant that you move on and no longer is involve with Sifu. If you read all my posts you will know.

I am back in the 8 Step with sifu because I have more time and I still love the system. Sifu still hold you in high regards because you helped spread 8 Step.

You knew sifu was teaching me the ground mantis, otherwise there would not be a crazy rumor around about me.

I can say there is a ground mantis set, I saw sifu demonstrated the set to me and Robert Byers one evening after class. He taught me 1/3 of the set.

There are many things I can say about you during our time at the school, but I respect you and sifu enough not to bring it out to the open. But I will not talk about anything else I don't know or heard rumors after I left SF.

Dean, I never had any beef with you. So let be cordial and move on our separate ways. Please encourage Michael not to continue talking about his bad 8 Step experience. It does nobody good.

James Shyun is my master and my loyalty is with him.

Dean, drop me a private message with your email address and we could talk about the old days. I will be talking to sifu and I will tell him Hi for you. ;)

Dean: I am so glad you are here I know you know my two closest kung fu brothers One is Jim he trained with you in Buffalo he was a big guy in the airforce I believe wore glasses he trained with you and then trained with sifu shyun when he was stationed out here you also know my dai low Michael. I apoligize I only met you maybe once or twice and I was very young at the time. I know you were thought of very highly while I was a student. I am sorry i did not get a chance to see you in action personally. I have no doubt in my mind that you as are what you said about being sifu's best fighter. my dai low and jim told me how good you were. I will not ask you anything about your relationship with Sifu Shyun or bring up anything from the past let me just say I am glad that i was able to hear your story. if you have read my posts you know I have not been involved in 8 step for over a decade, and i don't really care about any personal issues as that part of my life is over. I am glad you are still learning 8 step and from your post Master wei's 8 step I hope you find what you are looking for. As for me I long ago switched my styles I am proud to have trained with some of the best fighters in the world. I have fought MMA in Hawaii and the Cage in Calfornia. I learned my ground game from two UFC fighters as well as personally training with several Gracies and many fighters from fairtex the best muay thai camp in the US. I wish all of you well and hope you all find what you are looking for

After reading this post over again, I am 80% sure it is not Dean Economos who made this post as Dragonball. If you are not Dean, I just want you to know you screwed Dean big time posting as him. When Master Shyun read this, I don’t think there will ever be a chance for him to return to him. Before this Dean left on good terms with Master Shyun. There are 3 remarks that I notice it’s inconsistent with the Dean that I knew.


I was there when he was adding joint locks and throws to the system.

(The curriculum (student training guide grade 1-5) was created long before Dean and I joined the federation, which included the joint locks and throws documented in both English and Chinese. Dean should have a copy of the booklet, many of his sifu students including myself should have a copy. Shall I provide proof?)

I trained with him everyday for three years.

(Not anyone of his students is stupid enough to make this claim because nobody trained with Sifu everyday. The most they can claim is 5 days and that is even rare.)

I don't remember you being with James Shuyn everyday like I was in the begining.

(In fall of 1988 I was back in SF to train with Sifu for 3 months. I was with Sifu 80% of the time because I was there strictly for training. This was prior to our trip to Taiwan. Many of my classmates can validate and even Dean should know. I was living in Sifu’s old apartment when I moved out to SF in 1989 which he also uses for his day business. Dean and his first group of students stayed at that apartment when the first visited.)

Thank God the dear loard above Dragonball Dean Economos has finally spoken up about the thruth.

Chaotic KIM.......... YES it is dean who posted that as a matter of fact he called me just last night. I encourage you to re read the past where he mentions me. I dont know you personally and hold nothing against you but perhaps just for a minute you might consider somethings that I and many others have said might be the truth.

Sorry got disconnected, chaortic also please re read the part about the ground mantis and the mde up stuff that was never tught by Wei. As Dean said we are not upset about what we learned just th fact that we and many others were not told the truth.

I would have rather had shyun say this is not true 8 step but it works and i would still be very happy. This way if we didnt expect it to be the real deal we wouldnt have been dissapointed.
If you buy a cubic zirconia and knew about then were told it wasnt real it wouldnt bother you.

Interesting... Training with Sifu Chang? How's that going? How is everyone else over there? Good Christmas I hope.