Poison Sand Palm/Tu Sha Zhang?

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Originally Posted by Jing Mo Webpage

In the combat division, the contests were fierce. Many styles left sorrowful impression on the audience because the representatives of particular styles did not measure up to their competition. Gu Ruzhang fought two fighters. In the first fight, he won easily. In the second fight, Gu Ruzhang was matched with a Bagua Fighter with Cinnabar Sand Palms or Zhu Sha Zhang. He too was a master of Iron Sand Palm and whose palms were red. Hence the name, Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm. Gu Ruzhang's Iron Sand Palm was called Black Sand Palm or Hei Sha Zhang. Naturally, Gu Ruzhang's palms were black. Both Iron Sand Palms are known as Poison Sand Palm or Tu Sha Chang. The training methods for both Cinnabar and Black Iron Sand Palms are similar.

The first stage - Strengthen the palm by striking green peas. This is to numb the nerve endings in the palm. Later, the peas are replaced by or iron chips or iron ball bearing. These iron pellets become imbedded into the flesh.

The second stage - The palms are thrust into hot sand to further strengthen them.

The third stage - Diluted poison is added to the iron pellets. With time, the poison dose is increased slowly in concentration while the body builds immunity towards the poison.

After drilling in each stage, herbs are prepared to nurse the hands to prevent injury. Special herbal liquids are used to reduce swelling and alleviate pain. Sometimes the pain was so great that practitioners would turn to western drugs such as opium and heroin to kill the pain. Herbs also play an important role in the last stage, since herbs prevent the body from absorbing too much of the toxic poison. The difference between the Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm and Black Iron Sand Palm is the type of poison used in the training. As the fighter strikes his opponent, the poison is transferred from the palm into the opponent. The opponent usually dies because of the poison. Many times blisters and welts would developed and would give the appearance of a snakebite. Hence the name, Poison Hand.

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Comes from a Jing Mo site.
http://www.jingmo.org/
Anyone hear about Poison Sand Palm?

Stainless Steel Palm is better, less rust issues, but if you want the top level stuff, then Titanium Palm is the way to go.

I don't care much for the cheaper versions like Teflon Palm and Aluminum Palm, even though they have a great strength to weight ratio.

Poison Hand is believed to be an ancient method of slowly adding poisons to your iron / sand or other hitting materials. Also poisons were slowly added to your dit da jow. As you apply the jow, small amounts of poison seep into your skin (Slow amounts of poison help your body adjust and get use to them). Then more and more is added until you have palm that's poisonous to others, but not you.

I am in Wing Lam's lineage and thru oral transmission, this what I believe is a more viable history for the poison hand. If you talk with todays Herbalists, you will find that most jows of today have removed the "Snake, Centipede, Frog Poisons...etc from their Jows.

Ginosifu

I have a litre or more of old jow, that uses frog poisons in it, was made by an old tiger claw practioner family .

Thought behind it was that the finger nails over time would while getting hardend would absorb the frog poisons in the jow, so when ever a tearing or ripping application was used against the skin. Septeceimic blood poisoning would occour

Needless to say, I have left it sealed, and will do so :-)

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Originally Posted by ginosifu

Then more and more is added until you have palm that's poisonous to others, but not you.

Ginosifu

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That might make casual contact and sexual relations poblematic.

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Originally Posted by IronWeasel

That might make casual contact and sexual relations poblematic.

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I thought the same.

From what I've read the term "Poison Hand" has a few meanings.

1. refers to the striking of vital organs (ie pressure points, etc) which lead to death.

2. Refers to the ingredients in the jow.

3. Poison Sand Palm refers to the conditioning of one's hand to the point that "Poison Sand" would be placed on the surface of one's palm so that when the struck an opponent the brusiing would absorb the poision.

Generally I think its a combination of the two.

Training the palm in order to toughen it for the purpose of killing. Yes alot of Jow's contain various poisons. I was told that the recipe for Chan Tai San's Lineage is unobtainable today due to the various poisons that are added to the concoction. YOu would ahve to have a personally stamped document in order to get the ingredients, but I think its almost impossible to convince a herbalist to sell you Arsenic, Mercury, etc. (which by the way is used as a catalist in order to break down various herbs, minreals, etc.)

Fanzi stylist make use of the "Red Sand Palm Method" refers to Cinnabar which is the same ingredient used in relious purposes to bless Statues and Lion Heads.

Ma Chien is strychnine and is readily available to those who are licensed herbalists and acupuncturists. Cinnarbar is mercuric oxide and we do not want to use this ever.

There was a whole debate over it in another thread in the Chinese medicine section. Certain people who do not know posted about it. Traditionally it was used, but we all know what is and what it does to the human body. No need to use mercury.

Ma Chien on the other hand is used in many dit da jow formulas and its use is warranted as long as people know what is in their medicine.

For most people they do not have access to these herbs in their unprocessed forms and that is a good thing, as having poisons in the hands of people that do not know what they are can hurt themselves and others.

adding poison maybe be true, but i would take it with a grain of salt. there is so much made up Mythology and stuff in kung fu I wouldn't believe everything I hear or read.