wah lum

How effective is this style of praying mantis in a combat situation? I have been a student of this style for 2 years and some of the applications like the high kicking and flashy moves seems like it would be useless in a real street situation.

Well, since you've been there for 2 years I would think you'd know the answer better than most. How well can you do the form that your handle represents(7-kicks)? This is a beginning form but harder than some of the mid to advanced forms. I have seen few do it well, myself included.

How effective an art is also depends on the practitioner.

There is no spoon. "The Matrix"
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. "The Matrix"

Well I think the form is hard to perform. The sweeps would be effective. The Tam Tui would help to get up on one leg but is more of a show of control and power than an actual combat application. I guess you just have to pick out what would really work and what wouldn't in a street situation.

I hope you spar in class. If you do, try something you think won't work, like the sweeps and into that kick (before you stand up on one leg); that kick can be a groin strike. I'm not too good at that form myself, but I tried a little modified movement from the form--went back sweep to single 180 front sweep to the kick and got him in the groin (he was just landing from getting out of the way of my sweep).

Think about what it is you're doing in your forms. Break it down. Then try something you think won't work. Make it work--figure it out.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

I'VE BEEN HIT BUY THEIR PUNCHES, SWEEPS AND KICKS. THEY ARE AFFECTIVE. AND THEIER HOOK TECHNIQUE (AS A DEFFENSIVE GRAB, THEN PULL) WORKS WELL, NOT ONLY AS A DEFENSE, BUT ALSO AS A SET UP FOR ANOTHER STRIKE. IF YOU CAN DO 3 SETS OF ALL OF THE FIRST 5 FORMS IN A ROW, NOT STOP, THEN YOU WILL BE IN GREAT SHAPE.

I guess, as with some of the other martial arts, not every move may have a direct combat application. It's my personal opinion that while some of the moves are meant for training strength, balance, and precision while other moves are very effective in combat.
Another thing to remember is that not every move may be applicable against human targets. I remmeber my Sifu once mentioned that some of the moves in a sword form might seem starnge, but their orignal intention was to take out mounted opponents. Yes, anti-cavalry moves. Wahoo!

If you've ever seen Master Chan do that part of the form you would know how effective it could be. I'm sure you've sen some impressive strength rising up on one leg with the kick extended. However, Master Chan literally jumps out of that low stance. In my 10+ years with Wah Lum I've never seen anyone close to matching that. Sometimes you have to se a move done as it would be used, not as an exercise, to understand it's meaning.

Does Master Chan jump up into the windmill kick? That makes a lot of sense.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

You may be performing high kicks in your forms or moves you feel are flashy but remember it is part of your training, it doesn't mean that that is exactly the way the move will be used. Your low stances help develop your leg strength, shifting from high to low moves helps with your strength and agility. If all the moves were used the exact way you did them in the form then anyone could watch your forms and figure out your techniques. There are many hidden techniques, that is why is important to learn the 2 person sets to every single set you learn and then the counters to the moves and variations to the techniques.
Every mantis form i learn is then followed by learning the 2 person set and the same with weapons.
You have to learn to crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run.
It is the same with your kung fu, you have to learn the basics, the applications, the variations , the counters, then mix and max your techniques to different situations and then total free sparring. It is a stepping process that most people don't teach correctly.
There is a difference in knowing how to perform many forms and actualy knowing the form.
My shr-fu will show many variations of the same technique. You can't dream up all the techniques, your shr-fu should teach you.

I think high kicking looks nice but doesn’t seem any power unless you are training and practicing very hard like Muay Thai.

By the way, master chan got any student competing into any kind of the professional event like Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Saushou or like that?
They do have many schools in the US.

I was gonna learn wah lum few years ago but finally i gave up because Wah lum kung fu seem like WuShu more than kung fu

[This message was edited by freestyle on 05-12-01 at 09:09 AM.]

You gave up on possibly learning wahlum because it looked like wushu? So you are basing this on seeing stuff at tournaments, I assume. As others have mentioned on other threads, the forms you see at tournaments are pretty much performance/tournament forms and not the real wahlum forms. This has lead to alot of confusion about wahlum, I've noticed.

What are you people talking about?What high kicks?Most of the kicks are mid level and below.

Most of the kicks aren't that hight and the high ones are good for application.If you mean the cut eyebrow kick then obviously you haven't been practicing much.It's strong,quick and hard to catch cause it's hard to tell were it's going.I have also knocked someone down with one hit using the inside crescent kick and it was at almost grappling range(no it wasn't a real fight so don't jump on me).Actually some are practiced high so they will be stronger when they are use low (e.g. round house).

Sounds to me you need more practice.2 years in kung fu is nothing.It takes a long time to be proeficient,let alone master your kung fu.You can't become bruce lee or whoever you think is good in three easy steps.It takes time and hard work, hence the word kung fu.

Remember you must have strong basics first.Back in the day all you did was hold a horse stance for about a year before you learned any other technique.I mean how are you going to kick if you can't even hold yourself up.Do 20 tam tui's every day and you'll see a big difference in 7 kicks.I think it was Wolivery who said that Si-gung had to do 500 heart piecring kicks before he even started forms.See what I'm trying to say?It takes lots of time and practice.

Olethros had the right idea.Tournament forms and wah lum forms are WAY different.

"Always be ready"