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Does Kung Fu elbows look different then say the way they are used in Kung fu and the way they are delivered and the way they look when they strike then what Mauy thaiboxing or Karate looks like in there Elbows ? I mean also the way there structures are the way Thaiboxing seems to look different the way they deliver there elbows than Kung Fu could this be because Mauy Thaiboxing has a Western boxing mixture to modern day Muay Thaiboxing ?
Baji relies heavily elbows, I think. Much square angling in horse stance. What strikes me as strange is the relaxed fist with pointed forefinger many KungFu people make. In Karate and Muay I only know either closed fist or flat palm. Tony Blauer recommends spread out fingers, btw.
I suppose it would depend on the Kung Fu style, or even the individual involved. Northern Mantis styles, and yes, even CLF, contain lots of elbow strikes. A difference with these elbow strikes are that in CMA, they are often combined with a pulling motion as well as a backwards leg sweep, or as you are moving your stance into or behind your opponent's leading leg to create a throw. Some elbow strikes also attack the opponent's straightened elbow. These are just some examples.
Greetings,
Your question is actually the answer, Firehawk4.
It comes down to what you choose do with the elbow. That is the kung fu.
mickey
Read my article Ten Hands or One Elbow in our MAY+JUNE 2012 issue.
See also The O-Mei 36 Elbow Form.
:cool:
It seems to me Thaiboxing has more elbow attacks and techniques in general compared with that of Kung Fu.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong
Hung Ga Kyun:Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLau
- Ding Jaag
- Paau Jaang
- Pai Jaang
- Kap Jaang
- Cham Jaang
- Hau Deng Jaang
- Luk Jaang
- ...
We have PLENTY of elbows.
The difference that I see that many CMA just practice the elbow techniques in the forms, and in Muay Thai or MMA they actually use them in fighting.
The Bagua Zhang I used to train in used some nice explosive elbows. Shaolin Kung Fu uses a lot of elbows mostly against grabbing attacks {in my experience} coupled with a groin slapping technique.
From "Lian Gong Mi Jue" -1930.
Quote:
Training methods for elbows on the whole is identical to training methods for forearms. Blows at a pole or a tree must also be made. One must only keep in mind that the region of an elbow consists of three parts. They are the lower part of the elbow (on the forearm), the upper part of the elbow (on the shoulder) and the tip of the elbow. Three parts of the elbow are used to deliver different kinds of blows but the training methods (hardening) for them are the same. The tip of the elbow is used for powerful blows with great piercing force and the lower and upper parts of the elbow are used to deliver powerful “splitting” blows. Many think that is enough to train only one (usually the right) elbow. However, it is better to train both elbows, as arms and elbows are most often used in a real hand-to-hand combat. In order to overwhelm an experienced enemy, one must certainly have two trained arms and elbows.Results of persistent training will always be needed and here everything unexceptionally depends on will of iron and tenacious commitment of a trainee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
So I then amend my words. Muay Thai, MMA students use elbow techniques more often in fighting than Kung Fu students. Because in the theory of Kung Fu, elbow is more a defense than attack tool. It is used in defense and counter-attack when our first line of defense, say our hand, is penetrated by the opponent.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong
I agree with PM that Muay Thai/MMA use elbows more in actual fighting. Unless CMA people enter MMA contests, there really aren't any CMA venues AFAIK that allows or emphasizes much if any use of elbows in competitive fighting. So there aren't many CMA people who emphasize training the elbows for actual fighting compared to MT/MMA people. By the same token, it's pretty safe to say that karate practitioners in general don't emphasize training or using their elbows as much as MT, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLau
OTOH:
There are literally dozens of CMA systems. In some systems, there is less of a clear-cut separation between the hand, forearm and elbow skills than in others. Meaning, in some systems there is more flexibility in application with the hand/forearm/elbow. There is no "one size fits all" in regards to use of the elbows in CMA, because kung fu systems, and training methods within each system (and even subsystem) can be as different from one another as they are from Muay Thai, TKD, etc.
In my experience, there is a lot of difference between the elbows of Thai boxing and those of kung fu. Thai styles used the elbow far more frequently although both Thai and Chinese styles have a great variety of elbow techniques.
Thai boxing is all about inviting, and elbows are allowed in the ring. As a result upward, Crossing, diagonal, downward, jumping, spinning and stabbing elbows are practiced as often as one would practice punches and kicks.
In my experience with a log fish, we use the elbow - 4 rather we learned at the elbow - but it was it used all too frequently in application or in sparring.
I have only trained in ngo chor for a short period of time, however from what I've seen the elbow is used quite a bit, though not as much as muay thai. The usage is different also. Being a southern style, there is a lot of close-range fighting so it uses the elbow both offensively and defensively, though I haven't seen the wide variety I learned in longfist. In addition, if a punch is blocked in front of the elbow toward the wrist, they will continue the attack by bending the arm and striking with the elbow if that makes sense. This is used if a bridge has been established.
The thai elbow is relaxed in delivery and to keep the elbow tight, pointed and close, the wrist is bent on cross and diagonal elbows.
Thanks for your opinions I see a lot of the differences between the 2 systems .
I think some Indonesean Silat systems use the elbow in certain ways to ? Kun Tao I am not sure about how they use the elbow .
They are different in many they were reserved for the light techniques shore they are done hard but light has a better delivery .Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk4