I was wondering if anyone could tell me about any types of qigong indigenous to the praying mantis system, and what kinds of effects they are generally used for?
(especially interested in hearing input from Tainan Mantis and Pong Lai)
Thanks....
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I was wondering if anyone could tell me about any types of qigong indigenous to the praying mantis system, and what kinds of effects they are generally used for?
(especially interested in hearing input from Tainan Mantis and Pong Lai)
Thanks....
(especially interested in hearing input from Tainan Mantis and Pong Lai)
Why? You think WL doesn't have qi gong? :D :D :D ;)
Nah....I just know what's at the back of the Wah Lum Handbook.:D
Damon,
The traditional Praying Mantis, and by that I mean the oldest non-interrupted and the least adulterated existing style of Praying Mantis Boxing called Grand Ultimate Praying Mantis (Taiji Tanglang Quan) of Grandmaster Jiang Hualong's branch, has three kinds of Qigong. All three kinds are still practiced and taught. There are no videos in existence on this subject. These three kinds of Qigong are taught only through oral transmission. These three kinds of Qigong are also recorded in the old historical Praying Mantis Boxing Manuscripts (Tanglang Quanpu).
These three kinds of Qigong represent three stages of one's path during PM body conditioning training:
1. “The Method of the Fourteen Exercises of the Six Ground Immortals” (Liu Dixian Shisi Donggong)
It is a set of simple, health oriented, massage type of Qigong.
2. “The Method of Body Conditioning of Eight Pieces of Brocade by Means of Striking Transmitted by the Taoist Master Taiyi Zhenren” (Taiyi Zhenren Baduan Jin Lian Shenfa Paida Gong) .
It is a set of muscle-tension, breath-holding exercises, which includes self body conditioning or “paida gong” (body-hitting). It is an entirely different set from the conventional Baduan Jin.
3. “The Three Returns and Nine Rotations Method of Buddhist Arhats” (Sanhui Jiuzhuan Luohan Gong).
It is the highest level of the traditional PM Qigong, which requires the assistance from one’s teacher and is usually kept in relative secret (for instance, in Taiwan there are very few people who know it, even less people who teach it and almost nobody who practices it). It is the longest set of PM Qigong. The goal - pure body conditioning, and indeed with many health related benefits.
At the last level (there are 3 levels of this Qigong) one's body is hit by a heavy club, thus resulting in superior body conditioning - high resistance to the hard strikes, knocks, kicks, etc.
PS. 7* Praying Mantis has 18 Luohan Gong which comes from the manuscript and writings of Shenxiao Daoren. However, it is a whole different topic. For more info on 18 Luohan Gong you should ask Tainan Mantis... I do not practice this one.
Best regards,
Ilya Profatilov
Ilya,
Excellent post! It demonstrates the richness in kung fu that still exists today.
Wow....that's pretty danged awesome. :D
Thanks Ilya Profatilov for a lot of info I didn't know!
:)
Was transmitted to our school through a monk in China. His grand student still teaches in Tainan.
I have found no link with our lineage of this form to 7* in HK or other students of Fan Hsu Dong. So our form doesn't follow his manuscript precisely, but is extremely close. Of interesting note is that the LGY group also doesn't follow the manuscript exactly.
As far as the performance of the form is concerned the points of muscle tension are more frequent and intense than what I have seen of the HK branch.
This is important as the form follows a type of methodology where the moves are chi gung and simultaneusly fall under the short strikes(no 2 man form) method of fighting.
So the tension has MA application as well as internal training.
Huang Han Hsun dates this form to Damo. This may not be true, but it seems like a very old system when learnt and the student sees the applications
Can somebody tell me if there are books that discuss the Manuscript & writings of Shenxiao Daoren about Lohan Qigong.
V/r
"Can somebody tell me if there are books that discuss the Manuscript & writings of Shenxiao Daoren about Lohan Qigong."
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any work other than the WHF book about the Lohan Qigong. the one that I have, courtesy of Tainan Mantis, seemed to have the Manuscript of Lohan Qigong with the writings on it. The print is not very clear. I could make out a few words here and there. That's a shame though because I believe we can learn alot if those writings are available. Wong Hon Fun did a good job on bringing what was considered to be "secrets" to the public. But no one has yet to be able to follow through. Today, the Lohan Gong is lock up on the shelves of a few people. No one benefits for it. To be honest seeing Tainan's Lohan Gong, I really think it is beneficial for PM practitioner to start early on it especially for combat readiness. Reserving it for "lineage holder" just buffles me. It is like to said no one else in the lineage should be able to fight as good as the lineage holder. That kind of logic really sends a chill up my spine. No wonder people diss KF these days. I think unless something major happen to the 7 Stars practitioners' mindsets, we will hardly see any repeat of Wong Hon Fun's generosity.
One interesting note on the differences between the 2 versions of 18 Lohan, I will use Road # 9 Iron Ox Tilt the Earth as an example. Both version does it in a Qigong manner. WHF's version indicates a connecting (with strength/tension) of the palm to wrist while there is hooking of the feet together; whereas, Tainan's version the hands are not really connected but the other parts seemed to be the same as WHF's. Then there is the fist to foot by bending of the body. The writings of the manual the second stance to the #9 road is "holding strength splitting tendon" which is the holding and bending movements. If we follow WHF's logic which is Qigong oriented these movements make no particular sense. But following the short strike application logic that Tainan pointed out before, this is reminiscent of the move to training Chin Na ging. Specifically, Sui Chin Si and Dai Chin Si. Holding Strength Splitting Tendon makes perfect sense. But then Tainan's version doesn't seem to have the following stance which is balancing on the heels and perform breathing techniques. Tainan's version looks totally Qigong like on this one; whereas, WHF's version looks more martially applicable. So the charade goes on. Who's got what? Anyway, I find it quite interesting that the first 9 roads seemed to be more short strike like and the last 9 roads seemed more conditioning focused. Just thought I share my view as well.
Mantis108
Dr. Su Yu Chang has a video on 18 Lohan Chi Kung. You can contact him through his website or you can order through our Chi Kung International site from the link below.Quote:
Can somebody tell me if there are books that discuss the Manuscript & writings of Shenxiao Daoren about Lohan Qigong.
I practiced that around a year ago. But gave up finally because it was so hard to remember.
To what I understand of it, it is an EXTREMELY long qigong routine. Not many people in my school knows the whole thing. Most of them who "major" in preying mantis only learns around three sections of it.
To finish the whole thing correctly requires around about 45 minutes and an incredible amount of stamina.
The effects comes in a wide range. It was designed to be a comprehesive conditioning exercise involving basically everything there is to condition ( metaphorically speaking ). From building up strength to improve circulations, enhancing breathing, toughening muscles, or just overall improving endurance.
Count,
Where did Su Yu Zhang learn this form?
It is my understanding that in Taiwan only Wu Mu Tsun knew it.
In HK Luo Guang Yu.
In China no one else of Fan Hsu Dong's lineage know this form. Although they still have the manuscript.
I have only spent a little time with Dr. Su in various workshops, gatherings and banquets so I can only speak from second hand information. That and the fact that he speaks no English and lives on the opposite coast from me make it hard for me to say. I have seen some of my brothers in class practicing the 18 lohan method and I think it is a excellent. I have only learned bagua chi kung so I can't really compare what I have seen to anything. Here is what I know about Dr. Su's background from his bio at our Chi Kung International website.
Quote:
Doctor Su Yu-Chang is founder of the Pachi Tanglang Martial Arts Association, which promotes the styles of Northern Praying Mantis, Pa Chi Chuan, Pi Kua Chang, Hsing I Chuan, and Tai Chi Chuan. He is a disciple of Chang Te-Kuei, Wei Hsiao-Tang, Li Kuen-Shan and Liu Yun-Chiao. A Chinese national kung fu champion by the age of fourteen, he was dubbed "lightning fist" by the martial arts community. In 1968, as a member of the Taiwanese team, he won the all-around gold medal at the International Martial Arts Championship in Malaysia.
Although I haven't practiced praying mantis for over ten years, Tony Yang always started the class with warm-up kicks and then 5 to 8 of the 18 lohan exercises. Praying mantis was Tony's speciality before he arrived at the Wu Tan Development center and I know he learned all of this from Su Yu Chang and they practiced this as early as the 70s.
I did take his seminar and he taught about the first 3 or 4 movements and there are some slight variations from what I learned 10 years ago.
18 lohan was part of my Sifu's basic training. It was a class workout requirement and we practiced about 10 postures at about 7 reps each using taoist reverse breathing and reverse orbit.
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