Or any lineage. Is there any reason to think he actually trains WCK at all?
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LOL - Exactly! What kind of martial artist doesn't train and has no demonstrated skill?? What kind of researcher can't even produce one fighter with the ancient 'most correct' methods he drones on about thread after thread?? :eek:
It's clear he doesn't really train WCK besides doing SNT and we can see that by watching his videos. That's why when pressed on the matter, he tells people not to look at him or his results (which there are none) but to look at other people and see what they do. Or it's 'not about him' and to do it yourself. Without proven results of his own, he's not doing anything but talking a lot of hot air!
I'm aware of that possibility. I do CE translation professionally in China. But nothing in that line is a snake or a spine. It doesn't say 蛇鳞, unless the line is written incorrectly. The left side of 麟 is the character 鹿 which means deer. If you look at the female Chinese unicorn, it's an ancient mythological creature resembling a deer. This is the ancient character for it. This character can't be used to mean 鳞. The only thing they have in common is the phonetic part of the character. So either the original Chinese was written incorrectly, or people are translating it incorrectly. Which do you think is more likely?
IMHO,
1.
If one is train in ancient Classical Chinese,
In ancient Chinese there is practice which
one uses the elegance character with the same sound or phonetic or pronounciation rather then the proper character.
Thus use the elegance character 麟 with the same sound instead if using 鱗 which is not as elegance。
Of cause It also can be one might copy S2 incorrectly , but I like to find a good reason to not go that direction.
2.
The nine turn is another key in the writing to point to snake. Unicorn doesn't do multiple turn.
3. Thus, from above 1 and 2, We know it has to be 鱗 or scales is refer as snake scales ,
but snake scales doesn't link with nine turn, thus, it has to be the spine of the snake.
Snake scale and spine relationship
蛇的身体内有一条很长的脊梁骨,这条脊梁骨由很多块脊椎骨连接而成。
每块脊椎骨的两边,各有一根肋骨,每根助骨下面和腹部的鳞片连着。腹部的鳞片是它爬行的关键。鳞片呈长方形 ,如同坦克的履带一样。蛇的肋骨可以自由地向前向后运动。肌肉收缩时,肋骨就牵着鳞片活动起来,鳞片这时就 翘起来了,像一排排小脚紧扒着地面,运载身体前进。
4. And when it link up, the writing Echo each other's ,
S2飛麟九轉表掌通
Spine of the flying snake nine turn present the through of the force flow.
And it makes sense because that section of the snt is the snake reel section and to open up and activate all joints of from the fingers to the shoulder.
5. That is the ancient Chinese way of read it. IMHO .
6. And when cross examine with the yik kam slt training and kuit of the same section, it confirm it is a snake reel section description .
With yik kam kuit is more details and involve the six core elements, and S2 is describing the physical element mainly.
7. So my translation is based on ancient Chinese language practice, and cross examination with other lineages description to verify if it is the case. And in this case, it fit both.
Certainly , there can be many other English translation , mine is not the only one. However, one do have to know ancient Chinese to translate otherwise it will not making much sense if one just translate it with goggle or present day Chinese.
Btw, another hint of it is a flying snake because it is snake crane nim tau writing. Thus the content can't be fish scale or unicon.
8.
As soon as the S2 Chinese character is kept the same, the translation will only improve with time. That is what count. One needs to start some where and keep improve .
Disregard of the snake spine....etc agree or not agree...etc
We do know, the nine turn refer to the flexible turning of the fingers , arm , and shoulder joints. That is the only way to have force flow through or penetrate from shoulder to finger tip.
So, we do know the direction of this writing to a large degree.
9. Sure, if one uses yik kam kuit, then, one knows the exact due to the clear emei definition. And can cross check and verify with emei practice . Which is what I have been doing since decades ago with many wcners who study emei directly from emei Gm.
10, now take a look at this translation of the same S2 飛麟九轉表掌通
"Flying snake rotates the head in nine ways to represent the palm techniques."
I think it is not presenting the key ideas as much as the above translation.
IMHO, 掌通 cannot be palm technics but the force flow penetrate through is closer. Also this snake section is not about palm technics but finger technics is more likely. So, palm technics seems not likely to fit in.
But then is ok. Everything needs a start
Calling your arm a snake is already elegant enough. There's no reason to call an arm a snake and a snake a unicorn.
The fact is you're changing it to say what you want it to say or what you think it means, not just honestly translating what it actually says.
Says who? It's a mythological creature. It can do what it wants.Quote:
The nine turn is another key in the writing to point to snake. Unicorn doesn't do multiple turn.
Daniel, I take it you are from SCWC? You must be familiar with the SCWC kuit then. Well, according to the published translation mentioned in New Martial Hero which is identified as the "truth" it says: "Flying snake rotates the head in nine ways to represent the palm techniques."
IMO, Hendrik's isn't that far off and is one of the interpretations that makes sense when matched with his YK kuit.
Hendrik, you ignored my entire post and got side-tracked. What happened to carrying on a reasonable discussion? I'm still waiting for an answer to this:
Ok. Again. I am confused. Just above in your post you said there was a difference between KLPS, KL22, etc. So does what you are saying apply to KLPS as passed on by Leung Jan in Ku Lo village or not? Do you consider Leung Jan's art "incomplete" and therefore somehow substandard because it does not have the SNT as one continuous form? Just answer this question.
Not taking sides in the debate, but we do all know that flying snakes are a real animal...right?
http://flyingsnake.org/
In old medical chinese, flying snake is a illness.
http://www.ihome99.com/wap/forum-115...ion=0.7.5.0327
LFJ,
1. Since you are a professional translator , why not come up with a translation of S2 which you think is the best fit according to you And share? That will be greatly appreciated.
2.
For me,
Without going into unicorn, snake, snake spine, and snake heard.....etc
"the fingers and arm joints flexibly turning nine ways to develop the throught of the force flow handling , from the shoulder to the finger tips."
Is what I think the bottom line of the message of S2
But that is just me, I hope for more better translation to come for S2.
3. my analogy,
S2 is like the line in the bible.
My translation is just I am showing the way how I understand the line , based on my background and other cross reference of the snake section which is in the SNT of YKS, YK, and Ipman Lineage biu Jee set.
I don't believe there or that is the a only way of understanding and translate.
Many ways can be proper. Thus, there is no the only way.
Well Hendrik, what I gathered from what Sifu Yung has written is this: You are basing your "ancient WCK DNA" upon a combination of Yik Kam and Snake Crane lineage writings and saying you have uncovered the original and true way to practice the SNT form. Yet your interpretation of the Snake Crane writings doesn't match their interpretation which they have passed down face to face by personal instruction for over 100 years. So if you think you have the "original" real thing that makes other people's Wing Chun "incomplete" and what you have is different from what Snake Crane teaches based upon their own writings.....then you are essentially saying that they are wrong! You are saying that their Wing Chun is incomplete as well because their interpretation is not the same as yours so they can't have the correct "gong" in their training! That seems to be what Sifu Yung is a bit upset about!
And you STILL haven't answered this:
Ok. Again. I am confused. Just above in your post you said there was a difference between KLPS, KL22, etc. So does what you are saying apply to KLPS as passed on by Leung Jan in Ku Lo village or not? Do you consider Leung Jan's art "incomplete" and therefore somehow substandard because it does not have the SNT as one continuous form? Just answer this question.
Please answer my question!
Since it is obvious you don't read my previous posts, This is the last time I would repeat my answer to you .
1. You and Any one is free to get creative and imaginative , but I am not going to comment on anyone s creativity products just because they get creative.
Please read
My recent post with LFJ in this thread
and
the following ebook by Wayne and myself , Ie : chapter 1, chaper 4 , chapter 8, and chapter 11.
before get more creative .
http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/r2-28589490
2. Many times, I have already advised you to go study with Jim Rosallendo who has the indepth art and find out for yourself. The same answer again and again.