LOL......good point!!!
GH
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For those who wants to know IMA
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...&postcount=245
hope someone with good chinese and english could translate it.
Of course I value his opinion (and so should you), but that does not change the fact that he is a TCMA teacher and hence his opinion as regards another sifu would be credible.
It feels right. I am stronger and more confident and have had a steady increase in my abilities. Furthermore, the best way to really measure your combat effectiveness is to put yourself in a situation where somebody is out to basically kill or maim you and most of us have lives to live where that kind of "testing" is counterproductive, so we stick to realistic class sparring, or as in the case of others, cross train to spar with other styles. Hey, whatever makes them happy. LOL
Believe it or not, some TCMAs do address the ground scenario by fighting on the ground.
Other TCMAs address the ground by techniques designed to NOT go to the ground, or to get up as soon as possible if they are taken down. This may sound like rocket science to you, but there is not fantasy about it.
To prevent being taken down the fine tuned sensitivity and listening abilities will see the take down coming and will "hit first" (by the way, the quotation is a reference to a very well known TCMA concept). Of course, hitting first will do nothing to stop a takedown if one does not have the delivery base, including given body unity principles and training that will give one the SHOCK POWER, as seen in styles such as Chow Gar southern mantis. Wing Chun has its own version of short power, which is not as powerful as the Mantis one (IMHO).
Of course, because there are no takedowns in TCMAs and there have never ever been wrestling arts in China. If anyone says otherwise, then he is lying. If anyone tells you that there are takedown techniques in the TCMAs, they are lying too. So the masters of old China never knew what takedowns were, that is why their kung fu "decendentes" will "cry" if someone tries to take them down with a judo or BJJ technique, whose origins can be traced,not to China, but to Shmucksville, Australia........:rolleyes:
On the contrary, I have stated clearly what I mean by "complete". All you have to do is read that post, a few times.
Where did I say that I am "complete"?:confused:
If you mean if I have gone out and had real fights (because that is the way that you will ulitibmately test any MA) with every other style on the planet, then NO!
However, it is evident that I have had better instruction and hence a better understanding of these principles than you.
By the way, have you studied this art properly and then gone on to test all of the principles in question, and failed??? LOL
I know what they won't use, if they have gone on to mix their art with irrelevant styles that may perhaps use diffent power mechanics.
It is really silly when you do not understand relatively simple concept of not mixing styles that may have contradictory principles and concepts, as regards things like rooting, relaxation/tension mechanics in relation to delivery of power, etc.
Well, here is a news flash for you. WC and Chow Gar share a lot of common ground. You mean you didn't even guess that?:eek:
It might just be called relevant cross training. ;) Actually, let me add that in a prefect world I would have finished the WC system and then gone on to increase my kung fu knowledge by studying other systems, however, I had to move and the only genuine kung fu school that I came across was the Chow gar one, and thank god for that, because the sifu in question opened my eyes to methodologies that most people can't even imagine that exist.
My personal testing has been within the confines of the kwoon. I have kung fu brothers who have tested outside and with success I might add.
You will have to just face it that your idea of kung fu and its supposed shortcomings are limited to your experience and many others who have studied incompletely. So, in your case, any kind of cross training may be an improvement, even irrelevant ones.....
Don't know what you have done, but based on your own statements, I am pretty sure that you have NOT done any Internal practice. I mean you don't even believe they exist...LOL
We were not really discussing fighting, as such. We were discussing the often misunderstood discipline of TCMA(s), because of the fact that most people are exposed to them in an incomplete manner, leading to them making clueless conclusions and assumptions about their scope. So, far you are proving my point.;)
Actually, that is the sports fighting (so beloved in this forum) manifestation of TCMAs. If you know so much about Internals, then you would know that some of the subtlities are not visible to the unlooker. I don't even know what the core style of the Chinese fighter was, but I know that for sports fighting, his emphasis would have been more on the External.
Having said that, you can see that the Chinese fighter looks more relaxed and fluid than his Japanese counterpart. These both qualities that are associated witht the internals. However, and again, in the sports arena, the skills gained from the relatively short term External methodolgies are more relevant.
Hey, I am just doing my best to pay you guys back for all the laughter you keep providing me. Thanks for appreciating. ;):D
Yes, don't worry and be happy, and continue posting cluelessly in a TCMA FORUM! LOL!
Of course you do. After all, you are the one that has invested years of your life studying the empty shell version of Wing Chun. Perhaps you, just like most people here, cannot handle the truth?
Wait a minute. You claim to practice a TCMA (last time I looked, Wing Chun WAS a TCMA), you post in a TCMA forum (last time I looked, Kung fu was a TCMA), and you are asking for "proof" of TCMA???? LOL!
Christ, wait til I get my hands on some of those Mcdojo "kung fu-ist sifus" that have churned out hundreds of confused MA-ists like yourself.:mad:
Interesting. I know and I know of, kung fu masters who have practiced that "stuff" for decades, but they still say that they are still learning and there is a lot more to learn, yet you "know" all that "stuff" because your brother teaches it? You have got some brother there, my boy...LOL!
Cancel what I said about your brother. You have no idea. However, I will give you a hint. To get to help get to your hightened and fine-tuned sensitivity (which every knucklehead and his grandmother here seems to know about), you will need to calm your mind and rich hightened states of calmness and relaxation, which will in turn lead to a flowing mind. This relaxedness will also help give you what some TCMA-ists call "relaxed power".
Of course, then there are the "hard" chi kung exercises which I will not confuse you with...........
Well, show me somthing that I wrote that gives TCMAs a bad name!!!
And your "good" teacher did not teach you anything about the Internals and the abilities acquired through training them? Interesting.....
It has nothing to do with "dreaming", "fantasies" or "kung fu movies"! The fact is, if you want to learn any discipline then you must find qualified tuition and then do as you are told, and save your opinions for when you have studied and understood the given discipline. It is as simple as that!
NO I don't! Making references to "kung fu movies" or "fantasy or magic" is a well known defense employed by glorified kickboxers in this forum when they are presented with TCMA methodologies they have no clue of.
I don't need to read my own posts, as I am the one who writes them and I will keep my hands where they are, I mean who else is going to hold my gun?
Correction, you find my posts confusing, but then you are still young and may eventually come across genuine kung fu tuition in the future.
All the best.:D
It has nothing to do with "authority", it is and has always been about genuine experience, knowlege and perspective regarding the TCMAs and as far as Hendrik is concerned, he has all of that more than most people in this forum PUT TOGETHER.
Sometimes try and understand what he is talking about and you may learn somthing and find yourself enlightened.
After all, on one level that is what such forums are for. ;)
What is your point Hardwork108!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
You're literally just arguing schematics that means absolutely nothing other than the good ol' stroke of the Ego....... doesn't sound very internal to this guy.......
My point is simple. There is a design to the various styles of TCMA training. Once one decides to train a given style then one better make sure one finds a genuine sifu. Then one trains the style until one has some good understanding of that system before one decides to "improve" it or make clueless comments such as "there is no grappling in TCMAs"; "there is no take down defense in TCMAs";
On the other hand when one has not come across genuine TCMA tuition then he has to accept that, instead going into denial and saying that what he knows is authentic, to give credibility to his take on the so called short comings of TCMAs.
Remember, to really understand a major TCMA style takes mahy years of SERIOUS study, yet some of these characters, having studied in a mediocre school of a single style of kung fu, come here and make sweeping declarations about all TCMAs.
I have nothing to be egostical about. I am simply a TCMA student and my experience has been with serious sifus, so I am calling it the way I am seeing it. :)
Hardwork108,
First off, I'm sure everyone thinks they've learned from "serious" Sifus. There are more legitimate ones than others, don't get me wrong.
Second, even if a particular TCMA 'is' complete, there are going to be weaknesses within that system. Just because say there's a counter against a round house for instance, doesn't mean it's the most efficient way of doing or training it. I'm not advocating MMA by any means, just saying that when a system is "complete", so to speak, just means you can handle "most" situations somewhat effectively, but it would be ignorant to think you can handle all unless you were in some sort of Jet Li or Jackie Chan movie
Im glad you value his opinion but ,once again, you value it ashe has the same approach as you. Youve just confirmed that again.Quote:
Of course I value his opinion (and so should you), but that does not change the fact that he is a TCMA teacher and hence his opinion as regards another sifu would be credible.
Finally, an answer.Quote:
It feels right. I am stronger and more confident and have had a steady increase in my abilities.
So your sparring consists of fellow classmates only?Quote:
Furthermore, the best way to really measure your combat effectiveness is to put yourself in a situation where somebody is out to basically kill or maim you and most of us have lives to live where that kind of "testing" is counterproductive, so we stick to realistic class sparring, or as in the case of others, cross train to spar with other styles. Hey, whatever makes them happy. LOL
You stated earlier that some TCMA's DONT have a defense against a take down.Quote:
Believe it or not, some TCMAs do address the ground scenario by fighting on the ground.
Other TCMAs address the ground by techniques designed to NOT go to the ground, or to get up as soon as possible if they are taken down. This may sound like rocket science to you, but there is not fantasy about it.
To prevent being taken down the fine tuned sensitivity and listening abilities will see the take down coming and will "hit first" (by the way, the quotation is a reference to a very well known TCMA concept). Of course, hitting first will do nothing to stop a takedown if one does not have the delivery base, including given body unity principles and training that will give one the SHOCK POWER, as seen in styles such as Chow Gar southern mantis. Wing Chun has its own version of short power, which is not as powerful as the Mantis one (IMHO).
My question stands.... what do they do then?
And again... you were the one saying that there is no takedown defense in some TCMA's..... i merely commented on your statementQuote:
Of course, because there are no takedowns in TCMAs and there have never ever been wrestling arts in China. If anyone says otherwise, then he is lying. If anyone tells you that there are takedown techniques in the TCMAs, they are lying too. So the masters of old China never knew what takedowns were, that is why their kung fu "decendentes" will "cry" if someone tries to take them down with a judo or BJJ technique, whose origins can be traced,not to China, but to Shmucksville, Australia........:rolleyes:
Oh, and that's Realisticville, Australia
No, you just keep saying it... saying it over and over doesnt make it soQuote:
On the contrary, I have stated clearly what I mean by "complete". All you have to do is read that post, a few times.
By sitting there at your PC, telling everyone how incomplete (in regards to their WC training) half the WC people in the world are, you must feel you come from a level of Authority.... in other words YOU are completeQuote:
Where did I say that I am "complete"?:confused:
Otherwise, you have no right to.
OK, have you had ANY fights with any other MA.. ever??Quote:
If you mean if I have gone out and had real fights (because that is the way that you will ulitibmately test any MA) with every other style on the planet, then NO!
Ummmmm..... noQuote:
However, it is evident that I have had better instruction and hence a better understanding of these principles than you.
Yes, constantly. Thats how i improveQuote:
By the way, have you studied this art properly and then gone on to test all of the principles in question, and failed??? LOL
Didnt Yip Man once famously say "go and try for yourself"??
Seriously..... do you? Outside your Kwoon?
Yet you mix 2 styles with different power generation?Quote:
I know what they won't use, if they have gone on to mix their art with irrelevant styles that may perhaps use diffent power mechanics.
Are you a better learner than everyone else?
As per my above quoteQuote:
It is really silly when you do not understand relatively simple concept of not mixing styles that may have contradictory principles and concepts, as regards things like rooting, relaxation/tension mechanics in relation to delivery of power, etc.
2 arms, 2 legs.......... its all the same in the endQuote:
Well, here is a news flash for you. WC and Chow Gar share a lot of common ground. You mean you didn't even guess that?:eek:
So you were going to finish WC and then go on to learn other KF styles.Quote:
It might just be called relevant cross training. ;) Actually, let me add that in a prefect world I would have finished the WC system and then gone on to increase my kung fu knowledge by studying other systems, however, I had to move and the only genuine kung fu school that I came across was the Chow gar one, and thank god for that, because the sifu in question opened my eyes to methodologies that most people can't even imagine that exist.
Thats not the TCMA mantra that you push. The traditionalist you claim to be would adhere to one style as they feel they are never finished.
Or do you know better than YM, TST, WSL etc?
Private fight club is it?Quote:
My personal testing has been within the confines of the kwoon. I have kung fu brothers who have tested outside and with success I might add.
Everyone is limited by their experiences regardless of what endeavour they pursue. I and a lot of people on this forum recognise this, you choose to ignore that..... its a free world i guessQuote:
You will have to just face it that your idea of kung fu and its supposed shortcomings are limited to your experience and many others who have studied incompletely. So, in your case, any kind of cross training may be an improvement, even irrelevant ones.....
Where did i say that?Quote:
Don't know what you have done, but based on your own statements, I am pretty sure that you have NOT done any Internal practice. I mean you don't even believe they exist...LOL
So its the journey and not the destination that concerns you most. Thats fine, and thats your choice, but some people are worried more about the result (destination) , whilst others wonder aimlessly..... lostQuote:
We were not really discussing fighting, as such. We were discussing the often misunderstood discipline of TCMA(s), because of the fact that most people are exposed to them in an incomplete manner, leading to them making clueless conclusions and assumptions about their scope. So, far you are proving my point.;)
Then why put it up as an example?Quote:
Actually, that is the sports fighting (so beloved in this forum) manifestation of TCMAs. If you know so much about Internals, then you would know that some of the subtlities are not visible to the unlooker. I don't even know what the core style of the Chinese fighter was, but I know that for sports fighting, his emphasis would have been more on the External.
So relaxed and fluid is internal? Floyd Mayweather must be mega-internal thenQuote:
Having said that, you can see that the Chinese fighter looks more relaxed and fluid than his Japanese counterpart. These both qualities that are associated witht the internals. However, and again, in the sports arena, the skills gained from the relatively short term External methodolgies are more relevant.
Yeah, but they're all either dead or maimed :rolleyes:Quote:
So your sparring consists of fellow classmates only?
seriously, perhaps everyone could share what they means by Internal. I think if people get a real understanding on what is internal training as it is there will be no arguement.
it is just a communication issue. there is no real issue.