Originally Posted by onyomi
Okay, you can blame the students for not trying hard enough and the teachers for sending students on to the next form before they're ready, but there are two major questions to be answered:
1. Do the teachers, in fact, know what they're doing? Have they learned these forms and systems at more than a perfunctory level and can they really apply them? Do they have a full understanding of the systems including training techniques other than forms (drills, pair drills, standing exercises, qigong, sparring techiques, etc.)
Yes (and this goes for my school--I'm sure that other schools do too, but I can't really comment on them), my teachers know what they are doing. While they are guilty of, at times, of allowing one to move on to a form more quickly then maybe they should, but the learning and teaching of that form doesn't end when the form is taught and the students can do the form by themselves. Drills are taught well before a form is actually learned. Applications are stressed and sparring from the moves of that form are taught. In all honesty, I may have a form 5 years or more before I feel like I really understand it. During that time, I may learn several new forms, but I'm continuing to study and break-down the material that was taught before me. If I have a question about a theory, principal or an applicaiton all I have to do is ask and they will take as much time as I need to explain it to me. Most of my upper-rank material has specific qi gong and two man sets to go along with the forms as well.
2. If the answer to number one is yes (and I don't suspect it is), why don't the teachers slow down the pace of the forms and focus on other things, only moving students on to new forms (and styles) when they have a good handle on the old ones? Like I said, it takes years to get a handle on Praying Mantis alone. I'm sure the same is true of Xingyi, Bagua, 5 Animal, etc.
While I have the gross motor movement for xingyi, Bagua and 5 animal, I'm still working on them to truley grasp the nuiances of each. It may take me several years to get that, but it's the journey that is fun. At least with my teachers, they will teach you at whatever pace you want. If all you are interested in is a cursory understanding of the form, then fine. You will get in good shape and learn to spar. I have a goal to make it through a certain set of athletic material while I can still move relatively well and then I plan to slow down, pick a handful of forms that I enjoy, and really focus on them more. But that's my own goal. Kung fu is what you put into it, but I've never found my teacher's lacking in answering questions that I have.
I can see that some SDers, like JPenn, do work hard and gain some decent ability, but my impression of the video is less that any lacking is because of JPenn's own effort, but rather that whoever instructed him was no expert in the use of the weapon in the first place.
No, I disagree. The issues of stances, intent, and sloppy form are mine. My teachers are better than me and offer the same constructive criticism to me on my performance. They also work well with everyone's limitations. They are interested in effort, heart and spirit more than technical skill. There are moves in forms that are almost impossible to do correctly. You are not held back because you cannot do a form correctly, but you will be held back if you put no effort in trying to better yourself everytime you do the form. At least in my experience.
So somebody post a video of someone doing SD that any SDer would agree is good SD. That's the reason I posted a video of my teacher and not myself (also I don't have a digital video camera). If it's me, I can always say, "well, I don't really represent the system cuz I've only been doing it a few years, plus I was tired at the time, plus I made mistakes here and here, plus, my teacher's WAY better, etc. etc."
I can only offer myslef. I'm not going to put videos of my teachers unless they offer it first. Honestly, it's a silly little internet debate...why would I bing my teachers into it? So, at least from me, I'm the best you will see (and it's not that good)
By posting a video of my teacher, though I'm sure they aren't flawless, I'm posting an example of what I think good forms should look like. I have no issues with these forms. I think they are excellent performances. I'd say I've seen him go much faster, or that he's much more impressive in person, but despite those qualifications, I'm comfortable saying that his performances represent how our system should be done. If you have a criticism of said videos, then that can be said to be a legitimate criticism of our system, as opposed to just a criticism of that particular person's particular performance.
Your teacher is very good. I can see no flaw in his performance, but I'm not attacking your system and style. I could easily say "that's not how we do it", but that means/proves nothing. But, again, I don't know if that's how its supposed to be done, I only know that your teacher moves very well and has beatuiful form w/out sacrificing martial intent.