All things being equal...
I have to agree with Oso.
Judo approaches the throw with Kazushi, which is to unbalance with some kind of a handle mostly the Gi (clothing). This feature also makes it more suitable for sport oriented events because in theory it would cost minimal damage to your opponent but would give them a good idea that you have better skill than the receiving end. The throw is the main focus here.
Mantis incorporates striking and kicking while approaching the throw. The throw is in a sense the backup here. But this does not limit mantis only to striking oriented only. BTW Mantis seldom relies on clinching but rather trapping. By the same token, there is no real restriction for Judo to punch and kick before doing the throw. Mostly it is a preference and choice of the "style".
MMA, wrestling, Sambo, and to a certian degree BJJ uses clinching extensively for the takedown. Pure classical mantis in my most humle opinion is very weak in the clinching aspect. This is not to say that there is no way for Mantis to counter the clinch. In fact, classical mantis has moves to deal with the clinch within Zhan (adhere) Nian (stick) Bang (help) Tie (paste). Only though these skills are getting less and less training focus. We miss out on clinching quite often.
The clinch is quite empowering regardless if there is clothing or not. That's why it is ideal for all sorts of sport events or otherwise. It is a great skill to have.
I think -N- has a good point but I think we need to be sensitive to other non mantis MAists who don't necessary grasp our terminology. So it would be great if we can spent a little more time in typing out the actual moves with a bit more detail. I think it will save a lot of grieves and it may also benefit novice level mantis students as well.
Mantis108
Re: All things being equal...
Quote:
Originally posted by mantis108
I think we need to be sensitive to other non mantis MAists who don't necessary grasp our terminology.
Yep. Sorry for rushing... had a moment in between reinstalling software and running off to a meeting.
N.
Re: Judo throws vs. Mantis throws
Quote:
Originally posted by phantom
Could somebody tell me what is the general differnce between the throws of judo and those of mantis? I suspect that judo's would be more geared toward an opponent who is wearing an article of clothing on his upper body? Thanks in advance.
I haven't read any replies yet, so this may have been said, but not all judo throws require clothing,and many of those that do can be modified - you use under and overhooks as opposed to grabbing clothes. For example, with tai otoshi, instead of pulling sleeve and lapel, you grab an arm and put your other forearm in the fold of his arm (reverse side of elbow) to complete the throw. For a fireman's carry, you overhook his shoulder or grab the back of the tricep, etc.
if mantis uses the same types of throws seen in shuai chiao (I know throwing in general is referred to as shuai chiao, but I dunno if you guys use the same throws found in the art of shuai chiao...), then the main difference is hip loading. judo relies on hip loading for some of it's throws whereas SC does not.
Also, judo relies on kazushi - offbalancing - to get the throw. Shuai chiao does not. They tend to force the offbalance either by crashing into someone, or setting it up with strikes.