Euh mah Gehd!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by kj
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Euh mah Gehd!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by kj
For stats fans, most linguists will tell you that in fact rhotic accents (who pronounce the mid-/post-vowel 'r') are actually in the minority in the English-speaking world. General American English (GAm - a merger of Western American English, Central American and what is sometimes known as Standard Midwestern despite being slightly East of the centre - Michigan etc - it's an geographical distinction, technically not an isoglossic one) is rhotic, but most NE American accents and Southern dialects are not. Approximately 2/3 of the States is rhotic, a minority in Canada (mostly limited to predominantly Irish/Scottish immigrant origin areas) and 1/3 in the UK. Australia, Africa and NZ don't have any rhoticism at all.
Of course, gahn is a perfectly reasonable way of transliterating, to avoid the nasal 'ae' of GAm 'cat', 'man' etc. 'Garn' also makes sense in non-rhotic accents.
Linguistics lecture over!
You are right. Lihn is pratice and Nihm is thought/concept/idea. In Spanish "b" and "v" are interchangeble. It's that way in HK Cantonese according to some.
When I was in college my Cantonese professor who was from Canton, was adamant about the proper pronounciations of "l" and "n". She always said that the HK Cantonese speakers didn't distinguish between the two.
For instance Neui (girl), would be Leui in HK. So I can see the where there can be confusion between SLT, and SNT
Some WC lineages do use practice (lihn) instead of concept (nihm) though. Languages evolve and now I've even heard people from Canton saying leui for girl.
I remember learning the word Siuje which meant Miss. A Chinese friend of mine was in China and called a waitress Siuje and was told by his friends that Siuje
meant hooker in some places. I remember when a Hoe was a garden tool....lol
For stats fans, most linguists will tell you that in fact rhotic accents (who pronounce the mid-/post-vowel 'r') are actually in the minority in the English-speaking world. General American English (GAm - a merger of Western American English, Central American and what is sometimes known as Standard Midwestern despite being slightly East of the centre - Michigan etc - it's an geographical distinction, technically not an isoglossic one) is rhotic, but most NE American accents and Southern dialects are not. Approximately 2/3 of the States is rhotic, a minority in Canada (mostly limited to predominantly Irish/Scottish immigrant origin areas) and 1/3 in the UK. Australia, Africa and NZ don't have any rhoticism at all.)Mr. Punch)
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For me the r in "court" is fairly silent...same for my number 2 son-same for my late father.
3 generations pronounced "court" witha relatively silent r- to convince an elementary school teacher in New mexico some years ago that none of us needed speech therapy.<g>
joy chaudhuri
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What a thread! Superb subject matter, and excellent posts! I just hope I can join in without being throttled by one of my Bruvs lol!
First off 'Wing Choon'. As far as my study goes, 'Choon' is not really a good example coz if you say that like 'tune' the character will not be the springtime as we know it but 'song' or 'verse'. Chun I've always related to the english 'run', but thats just my head trying to make sense of sounds.
I agree that there are varied dialects, but its interesting to see an 'English' thread trying to explain Chinese characters. When we noted our lectures, we were asked to make it understandable to ourselves and tried not to get riddled with confusion by following a 'state' example which was still changing. This meant that we all had our own interpretation and ways to spell characters in English which you could say totally individualized what we each took into the mind(?)
I can say this though, I spell Siu Lim Tao like this as 'Lim' refers to 'recite/revise' whereas I have also seen Siu Lien Tao where the 'lien' is 'to practise'. Many ways, infiniate conclustions but only one character in the end which depends on your 'intentions'.
I've never claimed to be the best Cantonese speaker, as my conversational is total garbage! But my 'tones' and understanding of what I learnt is, IMO, the best I could have done at the time and I'm still studying...
I feel most offended when I hear people refer to a punch as a 'chewy' just because they have seen it spelt 'chui'. :mad:
Your 'lim' is what is known as lazy tones (laan yum). Classically it is 'nim', but the HK Chinese started drifting into using initial l-sounds instead of n-sounds for quite a while now as far as I know.
Nim tau = idea
Nim shu = reciting literature
Same 'nim' character
Ok, I speak Cantonese and it is pronounced CHOON, not CHUN as in gun. Ask any Cantonese speaker. I think you might be speaking about the radical that it used with the "Wing" character in most WC. Btu is not used is Chi Sim Wing Chun. That radical to the left of the character "wing" means to recite/speak/praise. There has to be Chinese people where you are so that you can check out what I say. You're waaaaaaay off base.
I hear you. I told a friend from HK once that girl is neui not leui. He replied, "I'm Chinese. I know Chinese" I cracked up. I also told him that five was Ng and not Um.
I guess a black guy correcting a native speaker didn't sit well with him . . .lol
We still laugh about it.
Correct, not CHUN as in gun, but then also not CHOON as in cartoon! ;)
You could say: choen/tsoen but it *is* difficult to present as text. Anyway, I'm sure Phil knows what he is talking about.
Gotcha on the 'ng' and 'um'.
How about 'gwok' (country) pronounced as 'gok' (corner/angle)?
It is so easy to be 'lazy' though, especially if you speak fast and slur a bit. I have to watch myself a bit with my son in case I'm teaching him incorrect pronunciation and tones.
Quoting myself again here because I feel that some are trying to discredit me here on my 'own' way of writing 'sounds'. Seems crazy but its true. I, in no way, suggested this is how the latest dictionary spells the word in english. And I tended not to use many dictionary examples because, like I said earlier, there was no 'state' example being promoted by the Chinese government.
Does this make me wrong and line me up to be shamed? I wouldn't think so, but some of you are quite harsh! lol!
PHIL "Correct, Chuen or the way you spelled it would be more correct but definately not the "gun" pronounciation like most westerners use. I'll check my dictionary for the Yale Romanization."
I actually agree here, but you will still find 'Chun' in the dictionary (American?) and it was just easier to teach beginners as this was how we also spelt in English, except in the obvious VT, WT lineages.
PHIL "I think you might be speaking about the radical that it used with the "Wing" character in most WC. That radical to the left of the character "wing" means to recite/speak/praise. There has to be Chinese people where you are so that you can check out what I say. You're waaaaaaay off base."
I wasn't referring to the 'Wing' character here either. I was talking of the word for 'song or verse' which is a different character altogether found on certain scrolls which talk of 'spreading the word'.
CFT "Nim tau = idea
Nim shu = reciting literature"
Finally, this one has always interested me. Are you saying that the sound for the written N is still actually an L? Or are you saying my Sifu had a lazy tongue? I guess you would also ask someone: Ni Hao Mar? instead of Lay Hao Mar?