Kung Fu (Hung) Concepts Basic Entries, Grabs & Misc

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Originally Posted by Golden Arms

A common one for us might be right foot to right foot lead, back hand check their lead hand, lead hand gua chi or back fist. If they try to stop the backfist with their rear hand, so ...

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IMO, everybody should drill this entering strategy to death. It will be extreamly interest to compare different respond from different styles on this method of "open the door and then enter". What will a boxer, MT guy, WC guy, longfist guy, Hung Chuan guy, ... may respond to this?

A longfist guy may respond in the following way.

- borrow the force from your back checking hand and spin his right leading arm into a haymaker.
- stealing step his left foot behind his right foot and move his body to be outside of your right hand striking path.

Hi John...thanks,

At 4:29...I said "Bong" (it's hard to put into English = Cantonese words anyway)...haha You would know better then me.

But in Hung Style Bong Sao is not just a block...it can be used as a Wing to break or disrupt someone's structure. In this case we use the Bong sao to "Separate or Divide" at the elbow.

In that instance..the key element is holding his left arm out so that it is "Extended or LONG".

What is important is the ability to "follow" the energy of my opponent. If I pull his left arm to make it LONG and he resists me....then I Follow his resist and counter his technique in the same way he is fighting me.

:) "O"

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Originally Posted by Subitai

But in Hung Style Bong Sao is not just a block...it can be used as a Wing to break or disrupt someone's structure.

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In SC, Beng (or Bong) is also used to put pressure on the elbow joint and force him to move unwillingly. So we speak the same language as far as the Beng (or Bong) is concern.

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Originally Posted by Subitai

Here's a new one:

Traditional Hung Gar Skills 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dqhe-fVsL4



"O"

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I like it. Hung seems similar to some of the things I've learned. For example I learned a similar technique that you used at 1:20 you grabbed your partner left wrist and counter with a strike. At that point though, if that strike was blocked, my personally preference is to off balance the opponent by pulling on the left wrist (since I'm already got a hold on it) and to use the striking arm to put pressure on the elbow joint (hopefully wrenching it).

Keep it coming.

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Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

IMO, everybody should drill this entering strategy to death. It will be extreamly interest to compare different respond from different styles on this method of "open the door and then enter". What will a boxer, MT guy, WC guy, longfist guy, Hung Chuan guy, ... may respond to this?

A longfist guy may respond in the following way.

- borrow the force from your back checking hand and spin his right leading arm into a haymaker.
- stealing step his left foot behind his right foot and move his body to be outside of your right hand striking path.

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Those are both responses I have come across, the stealing step less often than the hook/haymaker. We often parry the haymaker in that situation with a movement that looks like talking on a telephone/hair combing backwards, the rest is situational at that point depending on how both people are moving.

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Originally Posted by Golden Arms

hair combing backwards, ...

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I'll call that "arm wrapping". Did some WC guy call that Tan Shou?

2 more today...err tonite :)

Kung Fu Basic mind your openings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfi...zb5gPk3R055hDw

Hung Gar Concepts 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9v...zb5gPk3R055hDw

The "entering strategy" is always an excellent discussion subject. Many good points have been shown in both clips. Thanks for sharing.

IMO, if you use

- mirror stance (you have right side forward, your opponent has left side forward), your opponent's back leg can kick/knee your belly (as you have addressed).
- uniform stance (both with left side forward), your opponent's back leg can still sweep your leading leg.

The risk does exist in both situations. It's just different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfi9Q5k7qk&index=1

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Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

The "entering strategy" is always an excellent discussion subject. Many good points have been shown in both clips. Thanks for sharing.

IMO, if you use

- mirror stance (you have right side forward, your opponent has left side forward), your opponent's back leg can kick/knee your belly (as you have addressed).
- uniform stance (both with left side forward), your opponent's back leg can still sweep your leading leg.

The risk does exist in both situations. It's just different.

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Yes...excellent points, John I agree.

My main point from the "Mind your openings" video is that:

The entering combo of (punch ----> lower kick) is so very common in many styles = it is meant to be a warning to keep your crotch protected.

I wanted to illustrate this concept because I had recently seen someone leaving their crotch open (mirror stance) in a demo.

Every teacher i've ever interacted with would assert the basic foundation that you never willingly leave your groin open to the kick if you can help it. If i'm going to be kicked...i'd rather it be somewhere else 1st, than in my groin. :)

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Originally Posted by Subitai

The entering combo of (punch ----> lower kick) is so very common in many styles ...

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Agree, the

1. (bow-arrow stance) grab, punch,
2. kick and punch at the same time,
3. (horse stance) punch,

combo also exists in long fist system forms such as:

- Tantui (2nd road),
- Mai Fu Chuan,
- Tai Zu long fist,
- ...

It's one of the "long fist" system logos and good challenge for body coordination.

IMO, when you punch and kick at the same time, that kick can be a

- toes push kick,
- heel kick,
- roundhouse kick,
- knee strike,
- foot sweep,
- ...

We have the same kind of thing in the hop gar system and I accidently kicked my friend in the groin with it. He turned his stance too soon and well...yeah...

Good videos O, always enjoying seeing them in my subscriptions box.

In your 2nd clip, I like what you did for

- grab your opponent's wrist,
- when your opponent tries to break your wrist grabbing, you change your wrist grab into a punch,
- when your opponent grab your wrist, you drop elbow into his chest,
- you use hand to push on your opponent's elbow joint and force his leading arm to jam his back arm,
- ...

One interest thing is, when your opponent grabs on your wrist, in order to break his wrist grip, sometime he forces you to make the following 2 decisions:

You may twist your arm against his

- thumb, this will take less effort, but sometime you may open yourself up (this is why he grabs you this way).
- 4 fingers, this will take more effort, but you won't expose your center.

The game plan is applied right at this moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9vGvdm30g

I'm glad you caught that John...very observant about turning towards the thumb or the back of the hand ( 4 fingers)

I was exactly trying to explain those observations right here in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVMxxZJnPz0&t=2m42s

That's a good clip too. I like your counter against the triangle shoulder lock. I have seen many teachers teach that offense move. I haven't seen many teachers teach counter for that move.

Does your system train how to "catch a fast punch"? Many people said that a full speed punch is impossible to grab. IMO, nothing is impossible. If you train 100 fast punches catching daily, your successful rate will be higher. If you are used to catch a fast punch, you can catch a slow punch, or non moving arm much easier. Some people also say that is "chasing arm". But it has a lot value for my favor "octopus strategy". I enjoy that kind of challenge in my daily training very much.

What's your opinion on the training for "catching a fast punch (wrist grab)"?

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Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

That's a good clip too. I like your counter against the triangle shoulder lock. I have seen many teachers teach that offense move. I haven't seen many teachers teach counter for that move.

Does your system train how to "catch a fast punch"? Many people said that a full speed punch is impossible to grab. IMO, nothing is impossible. If you train 100 fast punches catching daily, your successful rate will be higher. If you are used to catch a fast punch, you can catch a slow punch, or non moving arm much easier. Some people also say that is "chasing arm". But it has a lot value for my favor "octopus strategy". I enjoy that kind of challenge in my daily training very much.

What's your opinion on the training for "catching a fast punch (wrist grab)"?

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Now you are really talking about fighting...at least in a modern sense. I respect that because nobody will just punch and hold their hand out there.

To a degree...In my HG concepts series 1, I tried to address one aspect of dealing with this (i.e. a fast punch)

Most options are:

1) Avoid it all together (usually with superior footwork and body spacing ) and or hit back simultaneously.

2) Intercept it...be it a block or padding type motion (to soften it) and also using a hook to slow it down...to also hit back

3) Catch it... which is really a discussion all by itself.

-In my opinion the better you are...the more you just set your opponent up and allow him to GIVE it to you.
-It always works better this way, as opposed to trying it immediately right at the very start of the fight perhaps on the very 1st punch. No not a good idea.

- How the catch is done is usually a combination of block, intercept and also IMO...the use of a 2 on 1 senario. Meaning 2 hands vs 1 arm / wrist.
This, in combination with good fighting experience will get the job done. You just know "when to hold them and when to fold them" :)

...I can't believe i quoted Kenny Rogers!