Hey there, i also study tae kwon do (you'll most often see it referred to as TKD here). So you in WTF or ITF?
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Hey there, i also study tae kwon do (you'll most often see it referred to as TKD here). So you in WTF or ITF?
Thanks for the welcome guys. I am in ITF which uses the traditional forms. However, WTF (Olympic style) also has forms. They are not the ones of ITF but they look almost exactly alike.
The lineage of TKD goes way back into the Korean history of martial arts with China and Japan being huge influences. However, as has been said, the incarnation that we learn today is only traditional to a certain degree. This is why we say MODERN day shotokan was founded in the early 1900's.
Dissing TKD, I shouldn't be used to it but I am. Most people are very ignorant of TKD and base assumptions on what little they have seen in the Olympics for instance.
Jeff Liboiron, perhaps by reading this you will learn more about TKD. The tae in tae kwon do is Korean for hands. Make no mistake, TKD is known for its kicks, but in its true form we do not take away from hands one bit. Here is the reason why people think TKD is all kicks. In the Olympics, tae kwon do sparring is a sport. As a sport, you have to get points to win. As the rules will have it, kicks grant you a huge amount of points to fist techniques. Therefore, if one wants to win they must do everything they can to kick. However, this is TKD ONLY in Olympic sparring. As a martial art, and as a means of self defense it is much more than that. For instance, the forms (both ITF and WTF) are mostly hand techniques. TKD incorporates all shotokan hand techniques as well as many kung fu hand techniques (though I question exactly how much kung fu is in it, which is the point of this topic).
I hope I have cleared up the misconception about TKD for you. Most people have the wrong idea about it. Especially when some schools focus so much on winning tournaments and not on self defense. There is nothing wrong by that, mind you, because, they know that they are doing a sport as well as a martial art.
BTW, nice site, Don Bohrer. I like the Dragonman, looks pretty cool. I would show you my school's site, but it is down right now. www.taekwondouniversity.com if it is every up and running again. We might stink at computers but we are pretty good at the martial arts, heh.
Mr N, welcome aboard. I do a variation of ITF TKD.
1. Most of the history for TKD that you read is total BS. Here's a guy who's got it closer to what is possible.
http://www.geocities.com/changhontkd/index.htm
2. You're right it is a direct offshoot from Shotokan. I too do the traditional forms. Most cover the same material as Shotokan but sometimes in a different order.
3. TKD didn't incorporate very much CMA if any at all. But two Korean arts, Hwa Rang Do and Kuk Sool Won seem to have been influenced by Chinese MA, lots of mantis hand.
4. TKD used to have a rep as a bad@ss martial art during the Vietnam war. Somewhere along the way something went very wrong and now we have a rep for being a candy@ss art.
5. We're about 60% hand and 40% leg.
It's good to have another TKD person here. If you want to have fun here just pick on Old Jong and his Wing Chun. ;)
Yep, you hit the nail on the head about TKD. I think the commercialization of TKD is what gave it its bad rep. Too much focus on the sports side of it and it becomes watered down. However, as you know there are plenty of schools that teach TKD the way it was meant to be as a martial art.
I would bet that it happened when The ATA came into play. The camoflauge belt, the cheesy clubs, the fact that you progress through like 11 belts in two to two and a half years and can then become a black belt. Also, I was reading about the history of it about a month ago - the founder of ATA decided that TKD too closely resembled JMA, so he added the kicks and limited the hand use in order to give the style a more "korean flavor"
Mr Nunchacku
I have a friend in Loveland Colorado that gave me a whole new respect for TKD. He teaches at an excellent school. His kids went to the junior olympics. I didn't realise until working with him that there is some in depth practice drills in TKD to defeat kicks. His wife likes to use a very fast AXE kick to bring your leg down and then kick the snot out of you, OUCH! Any way his school works on all these wonderful kicks againts kicks. Different from what I am used to doing.
Yep, leg defense is just as important as leg offense.
When i went to US to compete we stayed at this one kids home, (well his parents home obviously) The kid had been practicing hard from when he was younger but first he was with another school, he showed us some videotape, and what i saw was amazing (bad amazing), it was the worst ever, besides the fact that the teachers wore black doboks. They had both TKD and COMBAT TKD belts (so they could have more belt tests) and they had very bad form.
Now he's been with Master Park for a while and he's soooo much better. I was just amazed at this school because it sucked ass and aparently most of the schools were like this.
That's propably why people have such bad things to say, they've ever fought a ****y black belt from these schools and think that all TKD sucks like that, or have joined up with the school and realized how crappy it was, and hence thought all TKD schools were crappy like that.
Me and my friends from another board have a term for these kinds of schools. We call them McDojo.
McDojo (n.)- A "martial arts school" where the primary concern is to gain money. There are a whole lot of belts for the purpose of having to pay the school more money for testings. No one ever fails the "testings". Everybody gets their black belt in the minimum amount of time.
If your school exhibits one of these characteristics that's nothing to worry too much about (except the part about no one ever failing tests), but any more and you may be looking at a McDojo.
In our school it's rare for someone to fail a belt test, but then it's also common for students not to be invited to test. When I was doing Shaolin Kempo Karate I had some "surprise" on the spot belt tests. Guess that's when the instructor wanted to take his wife out for dinner.
"In our school it's rare for someone to fail a belt test, but then it's also common for students not to be invited to test."
This is an example of why I said it is nothing to worry about if your school has one of the mentioned McDojo characteristics. This is obviously an exception and shows that your school is not concerned about sucking money out of people by testing them all the time.
At one school that I attended the sifu decided to rank test everyone (and I mean everyone) and of course charge money right before he took a trip to china. Kinda made me wonder.
Rogue: Freddy V. rules baby...Freddy V. rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :
I still find it amazing that I learned something there.
BTW, the January 2002 issue of Tae Kwon Do Times has a short but pretty good article about knife fighting. No not Dog Brothers or Hock style of KF, but what you're likely to face on the street. Don't know where the author got his stats, but he makes some good points. Read it at B&N over a cup of coffee, unless you like looking at pictures of Americans dressed up in PJ's striking strange poses in front of Asian landmarks.
Mr Nunchaku and his buddies invented the term McDojo? May I ask what handle he posted by at http://www.e-budo.com ?
I guess the CMA term would be "McKwoon"
lol, so others use it too!
I have absolutely no idea when my friend created the term (created it to us anyway), the topic has been purged a long time ago I'm sure. But who really cares who created it, right? It's the perfect term to describe it.
McKwoon
McDojo
McDojang
McTraining Hall
lol
I mostly see mcdojangs and a few sport oriented places. I have not seen any combat focused Tae Kwon Do. Has anyone seen combat Tae Kwon Do?
Taekyon is a seperate and older art then Tae Kwon Do. It was a good video but that doesn't count. Anyone know how Choi Hong Hi taught Tae Kwon Do?
i dont really follow korean martial arts
No need to be sorry. It was still an interesting video. :)
A brief crash course if you are interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_martial_arts
i think they tae kwan don't fight. ok it was a bad joke. but this guy i grew up with was a great fighter and he had learned TKD from his father. His father however was excommunicated from some association for being too hardcore with the fighting and his school closed. he was teaching neck breaking techniques or some such thing to kids. his dad wasn't much of a thinker and therefore had pretty poor judgement. very irresponsible. aside from that i have never seen a school that teaches it for fighting.
i have never heard of taekyon but it looks pretty interesting.
Does anyone have any examples of Tae Kwan Do guys that are good fighters?
ttt.......
Fedor.
Beyond that, TKD breeds people of varying capability just like any other art. Fighting isnt rocket science, anybody with a bit of common sense and an open mind will pick it up. Most people sadly do not posess these features and so their potential is severely limited, regardless of their art. I guess there are obvious and extreme examples of arts that are flawed, but the well established martial arts are so for a reason. Even if what you get served as a mcdojo customer is on the whole unimpressive, its still only a few steps away from the art that did work, so in this regard id consider attitude to actually be more important.
If you want to see examples of karate/tkd working, look for the exponents who have gone into sport competition. Kickboxing, MMA.
Taekwondo is the least effective martial art known to man that is unless you can convince your opponent to take your shoes of first. To answer your question there are nun.:D
I don't know about that, TKD is just as effective as karate or anything else. David Loussio (spelling?) and a lot of other fighters have tkd backgrounds. Not everything from the art is effective for sport fighting, but every "style" has to adapt to the particular sport. My vote for least effective martial art= Aikido.
i studied tae kwon do for five years. the flashy kicks are useless. but as for striking at a greater distance and learning to kick as fast as throwing a jab it is quit effective. they don't teaching much punching, grappling, knees and elbows are none existant in sparring but show up in forms. if your not learning it for sport and take what you can from it to incorperate in fighting it is great for lower body use. besides if you get flexible enough i have never known a heel kick to not break a clavicle.:)
A friend of mine is a blackbelt in TKD, but can't really spar with me worth jack because of the whole unstable kicking thing. They're not too bad at striking, though. Blocking, now that's another story. This person always trys to anticipate my attacks instead of reacting to them, which is just asking to get faint'd.
i agree with the stiking and the blocking, but for me blocking i a wasit of time and energy. i found the countering the attack was move effective then blocking it and getting injured doing so. as for striking the kicks are nice but tae kwon do doesn't teach punching worth jack. wheni was in it i learned boxing at the same time. during our sparring in class i wound work my way in and while my opponant would want to touch chest pads to initiant a splint (like two boxers hugging) i would keep my hands up and land blows to the chest pad. punches landed earn points also. tkd stylist like to keep their distance and use their legs but if you are going to get close whynot use you other weapons available to you? that was what i learned and how i won the tournaments that i was in. instructors stay with the kicking to much and ignore the upper body potenial that the students have even in sparring.
Not all TKD's are created equal.
TKD is an Olympic sport. Its a full contact sport. In order to get into the olympics it had to be in a certain amount of countries with an International Governing body and National Governing bodies in each country.
Korea sent instructors out to establish enough schools to accomplish this.
Now you have Black Belts created all over and then they open schools.
But not everyone is interested in full contact Olympic TKD. Many schools claim they train Olympic TKD, but its still light contact. Then the rest get into point sparring, trying to hold onto the kicking side of TKD.
In Olympic TKD you have rules that they train by. Very little hands, lots of kicks.
In TKD you become just like the instructor, not making the art fit you and your strengths.
There are TKD guys that can fight, are really fast and kick really hard. But they are far and few in between.
I actually like more kicks to the head. That's the best part about Olympic TKD. As a spectator, kicks to the head rock.Quote:
Taekwondo Purists Say Olympics Hurting Martial Art
Taekwondo's governing body rewriting the rules for Olympic hopefuls
Monday, Oct 3, 2011 | Updated 9:47 AM PDT
[IMG]http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/654*368/taekwondo-olympic-London-20.jpg[/IMG]
Olympic Taekwondo hopeful Aaron Cook of Great Britain poses for pictures to capture his martial arts journey to the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games.
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Since becoming an Olympic event, taekwondo has largely ditched its traditions, creating a split in the martial sport.
At last weekend's British Open, more than 400 top competitors took part in a key event leading to the 2012 London Olympics. Many of the medals went to Britain, France and Iran.
Taekwondo's governing body rewrote the rules last year to award fighters more points for head shots. since then, many of the best players now often throw fancy spinning and jumping kicks that were once seen only occasionally.
Some taekwondo purists say the changes have gone too far and argue the Olympic-style fighting bears no resemblance to the martial art's origins in Korea.
All TKD has combat potential but today it has come down to sport, trophies and competition. In Vietnam era, there were quite a few small unit teams that trained in TKD. I am not saying they do not train that way today but the exercise and sport is predominant. There were a few Korean actors who were in Vietnam and one of them come to mind is Hwang JangLee! If I remember correctly the group was called the Tiger Division! (If my recall is accurate:) )
Enter to win TAE KWON DO BLACK BELT POOMSAE Autographed by authors Richard Chun and Doug Cook! Contest end 6:00 p.m. PST on 09/05/13. Good luck everyone!
Is this for real?
Quote:
Female Taekwondo uniform could be redesigned
Juanjo Padrós, director of Andorra Taekwondo Federation and member of the European Union Executive Committee, is responsible for the innovative new design for the “female Dobok”.
http://en.mastaekwondo.com/wp-conten...wondo_01-1.jpg
The model designed by Juanjo Padrós, is a Taekwondo uniform that fits to the body using Lycra fabrics. The other model consists of a dress with a skirt and Lycra pants, giving it a more feminine touch to the Dobok.
The new design was presented to the WTF Expansion Committee in Puebla, during the World Taekwondo Championship; among the people present were WTF President, Dr. Choue, WTF Secretary General, WTF vice Director of Marketing and Communications and the Presidents of the different Continental Unions.
The WTF welcomed the new model with great interest and will study the different designs created by Padrós to see some important details before they finally instruct any manufacturer to produce the official clothing. “Right now everything is in the hands of the WTF Secretary General Jean-Marie Ayer and the Director of Marketing. The original model was created in Tailor & Co with model Jessica Rovira, member of the National Taekwondo Team of Andorra” explained Juanjo Padrós to masTaekwondo.com.
http://en.mastaekwondo.com/wp-conten...ekwondo_02.jpg
http://en.mastaekwondo.com/wp-conten...6606715309.jpg
According Padrós, the main reasons for creating this new uniform were:
1) Renew the female Taekwondo image and make a better difference between the male and female categories.
2) Adapt the modern fabrics used now in sports to Taekwondo.
3) Ease and release the body movements in Taekwondo
4) Adapt the latest medical and computer technologies applied to fabrics.
5) Improve Taekwondo image in the TV and press.
On the other hand the creator of this new female Dobok detailed five reasons why he thinks this new model should be the competitive circuit:
1) All scientific evidence suggests that new fabrics are vital to fit the body and allow a better freedom of movement, creating more definition and clean movements. People will enjoy better definition and movement.
2) The latest advances in medicine and physiotherapy, as tiping or other techniques, can be applied to Doboks.
3) The new technologies like blood pressure, heart beat, and temperature control chips can be applied in the new Doboks, and thus show to the world the most modern and innovative martial art and sport.
4) Sometimes, for amateur spectators, it is difficult to differentiate if it is a female or male combat. With these new models, the categories will be easier to differentiate. It is also important the competition in other martial arts like Judo and Karate.
5) The most important reason is to take a better advantage of our female competitors because they are a treasure. It is important to show that practicing Taekwondo gives good health, helps to stay fit and gives a beautiful body shape. This last issue must be exploited and must be used to promote Taekwondo in this specific moment, after the success in the Olympics and a great World Championship, to attract television and mass media interest.
The World Taekwondo Federation is analyzing to incorporate the new uniform in the Grand Prix in December 2013. In Europe, it seems that during the Under-21 European Championships, they will make a test of the new uniform.
it will work because it is more sexy. more sexy is always good. it fits tighter around the bust. no one wants to say it but i will.
"Improve Taekwondo image in the TV and press."
we all know that in the modern world, this is largely done through sex appeal.