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Originally Posted by
Shaolin Wookie
The strength of MMA is in that it exposes you to so many fighting tempers and styles, and pairs you up with people who have different strengths. The weakness in TCMA (if you don't look around outside of your school), is that you only ever practice or expect to counter/encounter all the techniques in your arsenal, delivered with your particular emphasis and principles, etc. In effect, you fight clones of yourself.
The reason the MMA fighter would dominate, is that he won't expect as much coming in, because he knows a punch can come in at every angle, and doesn't have to protect a centerline for the sake of the centerline. A kick can be used multitudes of ways, and doesn't always use the same striking surface. But as soon as you're engaged, he can generally predict your temper, striking method, and weakness, b/c he's exposed to so many stylisms, he has to be able to do this in order to keep up to tempo in his art.
The good thing about a quality TCMA guy is he knows his body better, and generally has no doubt as to what to do in certain situations, and can execute quickly and effectively. The bad thing about a quality TCMA guy, is if you get him out of his comfort zone (ground, certain ranges, etc.), he's treading unknown waters and pretty much is making it up as he goes along b/c he's so stuck in his preconceived notions as to what it is he should be doing. He'll wind up stumbling over himself.
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Originally Posted by
RonH
One of the hallmarks of a long lasting style is its adaptability 'on the fly' when the unknown does happen upon the fighter. If the underlying principles of any attack can be countered effectively, regardless of whether you have seen a specific attack before or not.
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Originally Posted by
Shaolin Wookie
But the principles of kungfu single out certain attacks as inefficient, and therefore cut them out of usage. Strangely enough, I see many of these in regular usage during MMA bouts. If you cut them out of usage, you won't see them coming at you from your classmates.
Because a technique doesn't seem to fit in with a system or style, it doesn't make it inefficient. It means that it doesn't fit in. CMA guys say...the method of power generation is weak. You really want to do such and such, change the angle, etc. But if you don't have that kind of freedom of waist and leg motion, you've got to be able to pack power in your punch with good ol' Irish grit and sinew. But really, all strikes should fit into every system, because you're fighting.
That is, if you want to do more than just dance....
[QUOTE=RonH;791904]Seeing chicks in bikinis and butt shorts makes volleyball games worth watching. If you like dudes, there's the well toned and buff guys with their shirts off.
I would say possibly some styles, but not all.
[quote]Because a technique doesn't seem to fit in with a system or style, it doesn't make it inefficient. It means that it doesn't fit in. CMA guys say...the method of power generation is weak.
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As an internalist, I'd say all purely external arts don't have as much power as they could have, to be more accurate and specific about the weakness.
There are many places that you can get power from that don't use legs or the waist. It won't be as powerful a strike, but you don't always need brick and mortar bursting power to get a one up on the other guy. Striking with the shoulder or a head butt are good options.
Exactly. If you can't do it, there's something wrong. It may not be something that the student does and it wouldn't necessarily mean that that student is an idiot. 'Doing something wrong', in the sense I'm using it, is free of any condescension and mockery. If you grab one item off a table by accident, as you pass by and you really meant to grab what was next to it, that doesn't mean you're an idiot.
True, but I've found that if you really need to conserve your energy, as you deflect multiple attacks in quick succession, you should treat the fighting as mostly a dance. It's less about ending the fight then and there (especially when attacked by a mob) and more about redirecting/neutralizing incoming attacks with very little effort on your part. It sometimes comes off as the martial art version of ballet. Just a tiny tiny brush or a very light slap on the incoming limb to move it the inch or less to get it out of the path that it's in, which is the one that's gonna make contact with you.
After that, it's a multitasking approach involving deflections with your arms and upper body, while you do femoral kicks and knee strikes/ letting gravity pull your body down, as you step on the side of the knee and press inward/outward a little.
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Originally Posted by
RonH
Relying on only the 'tried and true' of fighting?
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Originally Posted by
Shaolin Wookie
Doing whatever it takes to win, with whatever you can make work.
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Originally Posted by
Shaolin Wookie
Or, in other words:
Not this
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Originally Posted by RonH
as you deflect multiple attacks in quick succession, you should treat the fighting as mostly a dance. It's less about ending the fight then and there... It sometimes comes off as the martial art version of ballet. Just a tiny tiny brush or a very light slap on the incoming limb to move it the inch or less to get it out of the path that it's in, which is the one that's gonna make contact with you..
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Originally Posted by
RonH
Okay, so you advocate huge, needlessly spent energy consuming moves when fighting off multiple attackers (and I don't mean if you've got the opportunity to run). You also advocate you need to treat each incoming limb, as if it was a wrecking ball because there's just no way you could ever knock off course an incoming limb or stick or bo or sword or nunchuck or halberd etc. etc. with just a tiny bit of effort because there's just no need to move it just a tiny bit off course, so it doesn't hit you. You're advocating knocking that sucker, like line drive out to center field and going into the stands where there's no way the outfield guys could even hope to catch that thing, unless they've got a jet pack.
Sure, I'd love to see that done by any external artist for any extended period of time where they have no rest between each incoming attack. You've got a better chance of doing that if you're a Navy Seal than a lot of martial artists or MMA people.
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Originally Posted by
Shaolin Wookie
Do as much damage as you can, while you can.
Or you don't do the 'a running bull in a china shop' way of fighting.
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The thing about defense is, no matter how good you are, you're going to get hit sooner or later. And if you're fending off multiple attackers, if you get hit once, it's game over. Especially if you're playing a game of inches.
Which would you prefer to have? Waste larger amounts of energy sooner, making yourself tired sooner and allowing the others to catch you at a bad moment? Any of them just need one half second against you. Or do you want to extend the time you've got till you can find a way to kick all their asses? My way doesn't gaurantee it for you, but it gives you a better shot at winning in the long term.
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One of the benefits of external MA is that you have good conditioning, b/c it's part of your training, and you get used to taking hits, so you can bear them better.
In the sense of brute force against brute force. In internal arts, absorbing the energy and letting the soft tissue of your body wrap around the incoming object, much like the body of a drunk against a steering wheel in a car accident, lets your body survive the attack with less trauma because the body is more bendable.
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And if you really rock your blocks with your forearms, you can damage their arms with your defense, and add that element of offense to your defensive maneuvers.
Sure, it's always good to screw up your arms early on in a fight, especially against multiple people.
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Anything is better than remaining the calm center of your own universe, because it's not your universe.
HAA!!! I laugh at this notion. Whatever their motivation, whatever way they decide to attack you, you are still being attacked. All their eyes and neurons are on you getting pummeled and sometimes, destroyed. You are the center of their universe for the length of time the fight is happening.
So, who dictates what happens in that universe? Do you want it to be the ones attacking you? I like being proactive with my universe.
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Better by far to divide and conquer, if you have no choice. I mean viciously. Barrel into one, use everything, elbow, knee, kick, bite, spit, punch, grab, choke, rake, claw, and destroy. Then use that one as a shield. Go for the weakest one, so long as he's not the expendable guy in the group. Me, I'm going for the skinny one, b/c I know I can bowl him over no prob with a shoulder tackle, then stomp on him and lessen the odds. It is, in fact, end the fight as quick as possible.
I've found it's best to go where there's the highest concentration of people of the attacking group. Being so close together, it limits their abilities. That's when you take one and drop him. I prefer going after the bigger ones, especially the one that seems to be the leader.