Well said.
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Fighting:
fight
/faɪt/ Show Spelled [fahyt] Show IPA noun, verb, fought, fight·ing.
–noun
1.
a battle or combat.
2.
any contest or struggle: a fight for recovery from an illness.
3.
an angry argument or disagreement: Whenever we discuss politics, we end up in a fight.
4.
Boxing . a bout or contest.
5.
a game or diversion in which the participants hit or pelt each other with something harmless: a pillow fight; a water fight.
6.
ability, will, or inclination to fight: There was no fight left in him.
–verb (used without object)
7.
to engage in battle or in single combat; attempt to defend oneself against or to subdue, defeat, or destroy an adversary.
8.
to contend in any manner; strive vigorously for or against something: He fought bravely against despair.
–verb (used with object)
9.
to contend with in battle or combat; war against: England fought Germany.
10.
to contend with or against in any manner: to fight despair; to fight the passage of a bill.
11.
to carry on (a battle, duel, etc.).
12.
to maintain (a cause, quarrel, etc.) by fighting or contending.
13.
to make (one's way) by fighting or striving.
14.
to cause or set (a boxer, animal, etc.) to fight.
15.
to manage or maneuver (troops, ships, guns, planes, etc.) in battle.
pretty much anything where you don't go home in a body bag is a "game" or "sport"
the reality is, well, you can't re-create reality... nothing is going to simulate a real life and death struggle with a person trying to kill you... you can only approach approximations
however, what so many dismiss as "sports" do in fact do a dandy job of approaching those realities, especially once you understand the role of stress and adrenaline response
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a game or diversion in which the participants hit or pelt each other with something harmless: a pillow fight; a water fight.
thats awesome...
dictionaries arent the end all of tyerminology though... for example... ima BBoy, some call it breakdancing, BBoys dont call it that only outsiders... so should an outsider define a term? or should terms be defined by those who are actually involved??? breakdancer is a term that was prepackaged and served to the public in an article a long time ago and it stuck, but only outside the bboy community...
so who defines fight???
although i do agree with you, fight can be sport... but all along ive been talking about real street fighting, you know, actyual combat...
Just to be an ass ( and to chanell T over here from the WC forum, LOL ), people often use this example and fail to see how incorrect it is.
Granted being on the floor VS multiples is NOT the place you wanna be, simply because it is hard to run away..
that said, understand that you have to options:
Being on Top
Being on the bottom ( perferably with guard).
Now, being on top allows you to GnP and move to some degree, but also allows buddles 2 and 3 to tee off on your head, face back and so forth and you still have to keep the guy on the bottom from getting out you too.
Being on the floor with someone in your guard allows you to control HIM and shield yourself from buddies 2 and 3.
Just something to think of and train next time you can.
by that definition sanjero I fight every day I work (I'm a short order cook).
Fighting for your life (or someone else's) just isn't the same...if you can't recognize that... well, I hope you never have to.
On another note...as far as what people are saying about American honor, and letting someone get up... for legal reasons if you knock someone down it's better to tell them not to get up then to keep pounding on them. 'course if they try to get up, then you have no choice...
Doesn't seem like anyone really disagrees here. Just want to argue I guess.
ive never seen a street fight that used groundfighting. in my high school there were teen gangs like g lock and murda squad that gang up on people 20 vs 1 at night. i think maybe in small peaceful towns kids get drunk and watch too many ufc then they play fight one on one.
whether ur sport allows or dont allow ground fighting doesnt make it more or less realistic. its all for fun and money.
actually i meant to scramble to get up and get away or atleast create some space, not to be on top... i'd rather be on the bottom than the top against two guys tho(insert g a y joke here)... anyways, like i said, im trying to keep it simple... but i do understand that...
Dude, some of us have had to, more often then we care to remember.Quote:
Fighting for your life (or someone else's) just isn't the same...if you can't recognize that... well, I hope you never have to.
And yes, I am busting your balls:D
But the point is that fighting is fighting, period.
And pretty much what you do in the ring is what will serve you on the street and I have yet to met ONE "ring fighter" that isn't aware of the difference, though have met some "streefighters" that don't have ANY clue.
The thing is, what you said can lead people into that ever dangerous pit hole of "different techniques for the ring than the street" when the reality is just not that.
The bread and butter of the ring is what works on the street, technique wise/
Think about it, does in pro fighter pop into your mind that you think will be easy to handle on the street?
QFT; in fact, the thing about "sports" is that, even though there are rules, there is the element of the unknown - even with a structured venue, rules, etc., there is the aspect of the opponent being "not your friend" (well, in most cases); and while there are certainly aspects of this that are very different from a street encounter, it's still about as close as you can get without actually going and fighting regularly on the streets (which, of course, some people do, and demonstrate time and again how an "untrained" fighter can have a significant advantage over a "trained" fighter because of their context-specific experience);
the analogy would be war-games and actual combat: you can approximate as much as possible but the real thing is still different; so you train the skill set but also train the ability to deal with the unknown; but until you actually do it, you don't "know it"
agreed... but the risk factor changes and that makes certain techniques more appealing than others... more practical than others... also in a real fight you have weapons and alot of the time you do have the option of atleast trying to just get away and avoid the whole thing...
You can put as many rounds into a target, but until you do it for real, it is only for practice.Quote:
the analogy would be war-games and actual combat: you can approximate as much as possible but the real thing is still different; so you train the skill set but also train the ability to deal with the unknown; but until you actually do it, you don't "know it"
Many times I wish we were able to "spar" as snipers...
See shooting a person or someone shooting back at you or shooting a "shape", that is one thing.
Putting your cross hairs on someone, seeing their eyes, the life in them...
You never forget that and there is NOTHING that prepares you for it, nothing.
Wish that there was.
Sure on the street we are aware of the difference, but when that feeling clicks in, the adrenaline kicks in, where we see.hear/smell/taste evertyhing al at once, that is what you get when you fight someone trying to take your head off.
Again, these is still a difference, some would say a huge one, but you are far more prepared than is you had never felt it before.
also, look at the difference between rio heroes and ufc... both are mma... but they are not the same... one is alot more realistic than the other...
And all those things are applicable to ALL people involved, not just the "ring guy".
Dude, I carry either an Emerson or a spyderco (depends on the fashion statement I am making) and I have an ASP in my car, not to mention I can kill you with my pinky toe, twice and the vast majority of MA I know, are the same way.
Like I said, don't think anyone disagrees... I've already acknowledged several times on this thread and others that sport-fighting is important...why can't I just talk about kung fu? :) Oy vey, this place is a challenge for me.
there are a lot of fighting techniques that aren't legal in sport, but work... pretty much all of the eagle claw kung fu I've learned is not allowed in sports, but seems like law enforcement officers (yes, I know this first hand) have found it pretty effective. it also is easily adapted to the ground.
Can I say that? Is that an okay thing to say? :) Hahaha.
it was on the newspaper many times. they caught 2. because of the young offenders act ogs use it as a loophole and let kids do their dirty work.
im just saying if ur in a bad neighbor hood and u get in trouble, if u get into guard and spread ur legs yelling ``COME ONE MAN COME ON`` ur not gonna live long
any kind of empty hand fighting is just ritualized violence, for entertainment, money, or young people to prove man hood . theres nothing wrong with that. its wrong when u think it makes u a warrior or a fighter
my cousin in china had a security who was a provincial sanda champion. a 100 pound random thug stabbed him to death
All right, I guess I've got more information than I needed, LOL. For what I see I was not clear with my question. In every street fight I've seen or experienced ground fighting can happen and if you encountered someone with some experience in throws, joint locking techniques, choking techniques, submission, etc, on the ground the answer of avoiding the ground fighting is irrelevant.
Now, I can not find an explanation why there is no such ground fighting style as Jujitsu or wrestling in China even though it seems that some Jujitsu styles claim their origins from China and others possibly from Horn Wrestling. As you see I am curious to find some historical sources and if any style in today's TCM will have a repertoire of such techniques.
Thanks all,
Mig
Sorry Mig.
My experience is that the KF answer to ground fighting is low wide stances, good footwork and striking/chin na adapted to the ground...I don't know any other explanation for the lack of ground-fighting , but I would also be curious to hear one.
Where was MMA 30 years ago?
If a "complete" style exists on earth, the evolution and cross training won't be needed.
There was a CMA guy who beated up all his opponent's at a harbor until more of his opponent's friends started to throw rocks at him, and sent him to hospital. He late on told his friends, "My CMA teacher didn't teach me how to dodge throwing rocks."
A CMA guy was cut badly in a knife fight. He told his friend, "My CMA teacher didn't teach me how to use open hand to fight against knife."
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I think American also has this kind of culture. When your opponent is down, you wait for him to get back up. If he gets back up, the fight continue. If he stays on the ground, the fight is over, and you walk away
I think you might have that a little wrong. On the east coast of the U.S. the tradition has always been wrestling. Very high tradition in some states. Therefor many of the fights i've seen growing up went to the ground at some point. But in honesty i've seen both, stand up and then ground. But I wouldn't say that U.S. has the exact mentality you present.
Maybe it has something to do with cultural norms.
For instance, in Europe, back in the days when dueling was allowed and wearing a sword was not only permitted but expected, schools taught fencing and swordsmanship. Unarmed combat, while trained, was frowned upon as "ungentlemanly," and so was not a major part of the curriculum. Then, when dueling was outlawed, unarmed combat became more acceptable as a way to settle grievances - still, it was ungentlemanly to settle scores with kicks - and so boxing became a popular training method, as well as a sport. Kicking almost dissappeared from the Western curriculums until its return with Savate - and I think that Savate was very much influenced by France's forays into the East.
I know that in Japan, lying down on the ground used to be a way to AVOID fighting. If someone got all up in your face, lying down on the ground was a way to submit without fighting (this is more common among older folks, not sure how it is with young folks these days being so anti-cultural and with Sport MAs being so popular.)
Maybe in China, some sort of cultural value system similar to the ones above was placed on combat etiquette.
EDIT: Yes, I know Boxing and Wrestling and Pankration are really old. I'm saying that there came a time when they fell out of favour, and weapons training became the norm. Then when those fell out of favour, unarmed combat began re-emerging both as method and as sport.
how come mma doesnt allow groin kicks like pankration. how come mma doesnt fight nekid and rub oil on themself like pankration. in real street fight everyone fights naked and rub oil on themselvs.
we leave that kind of fighting for the real men. :pQuote:
how come mma doesnt allow groin kicks like pankration. how come mma doesnt fight nekid and rub oil on themself like pankration. in real street fight everyone fights naked and rub oil on themselvs.
I got my impression from this movie. "Stay down! Stay down! ..."
http://www.legalmoviesdownloads.com/...aul-newman.jpg
haha and i got mine from this...
http://www.mamapop.com/wp-content/up...8af25a970c.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...isionquest.jpg
:Di beat your gayness by a lot on that one....:):D:D
Good point! Also how come MMA doesn't allow this?
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6302/spikesringk.jpg
Dude, I am Batman....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ek/batdave.jpg