Is there any other school that teaches as many different styles? Even Oom Young Doe doesn't claim to such an extensive repertoire of styles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Pen
Is there any other school that teaches as many different styles? Even Oom Young Doe doesn't claim to such an extensive repertoire of styles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Pen
Well, Hua is long fist. It's a different style of long fist. Cha is another. I'm not 100% positive as I haven't learned any long fist in SD other than Hua, but the other long-fist forms taught out are of the Cha variety if I'm not wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushing Fist
the way I understood it, the Hua Fist stuff is what Long Fist evovled into at Hua Mountain. So yeah, a different style of Long Fist basically.
As for what the stuff which is called "Long Fist" is I haven't heard that... very interesting. The only Long Fist I learned was the short "Children's Long Fist Form" taught as a seminar. pretty cool...
I'll have to look into this "cha", I've heard the name somewhere but didn't make the connection.
I've been to kung fu schools that have as diverse a curriculum. Tai Chi, Praying Mantis, Long Fist, Hsing-Ie, Pa Kua and others all taught under the same banner with one teacher. You would learn one PM form and then learn a tai chi form and then a Cha form etc. The teacher was from Taiwan originally. It was a well-respected school.Quote:
Originally Posted by neilhytholt
There are other less respected schools, too. But I haven't seen their stuff in person.
And not to open a can of worms here, but Wah Lum isn't pure northern mantis either. Their stuff has a distinctly southern flavor mixed in with their mantis. And they teach almost as many forms as SD (not claim to know, but actually teach--I know the claims of 900 forms prevail, but I think that our style only has about 150 that have been taught).
I've also heard, in a different style of SD, of Lady's Long Fist. The style of longfist where it originates from, I'm unsure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushing Fist
I'll have to check out the Wah Lum websites. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Judge Pen
But what are we calling a form here? Using something like Yang Tai Chi as a basis (a moderate length form, compared to LHBF or something), are we calling these forms like 1/2 of yang tai chi? Like 5 minute forms done medium speed? 10 minute forms? How can anybody stay current with 150, let alone 900?
Anyway, I think I have to cry foul here, though, because there's just no way looking at the SD repertoire you could stay current with all of this, keeping proper body dynamics. Even if you could practice all day every day. It looks like most of the material starts at the black-belt level, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by neilhytholt
N,
There have been posts upon posts about this topic, but I understand you’re new to the forum.
There are approximately 27 forms in SD below black. (1-30 short form is similar in length to traditional Tam Tui, but I'm only counting all 30 as one for; it takes 3 minutes to do all 30) The forms start off very basic and short. The first long form is only 15 seconds long (about the same length as some of the later short forms). I'm now working on forms that are 2 to 4 minutes in length (external forms; of course the tai chi forms take longer).
Only a handful of people have that many forms. I don't know if they have total recall on all of them; I can only really speak for myself. I have been in SD for 17 years. I have around 60 forms. I can do all of them, but I can't do all of them justice. I have a few forms (about 25) that I feel comfortable enough to show in public if asked. The rest I learned because I had to and I let them slide to the back of my mind. I can go back and review any of them and, in a week or two, do them well-enough, but I wouldn't teach them because I haven't mastered them.
My typical class is warm-ups, then a form, and then drills from that form and then a round of sparring. We then move to another form; drill a move from that form, and then spar. All told, we do about ten forms in my class, fight multiple times, and work on the more difficult techniques out of the form in isolation. If you don't like forms, then the class isn't for you, but it works well enough for me.
Most of it does. And everything listed isn’t' taught. If you are looking at the main site for First to Second you see this:Quote:
Originally Posted by neilhytholt
Tai Chi Ch'uan Yang Tai Chi (64): (I know this form and tested on it)
Pa Kua Chang Classical Pa Kua: (I know this form and tested on it)
He Foo Chon Sin Black Tiger Claws the Heart: (I know this form and tested on it)
He Foo Chuan Sen Black Tiger Turns the Body: (I know this form and tested on it)
He Foo Huan Sen Black Tiger Flips the Body: (I know this form and tested on it)
He Foo Shou Sang Wounded Black Tiger: (I know this form and tested on it)
Foong Wang Chue Han Chien Crazy Mad Drunk: (I can work this form up if need be)
Tang Lang Tse Ju Praying Mantis Enters the Door: (I can work this form up if need be)
Chway Kai Drunken Begger (I don't have this form)
Chway Tao Drunken Broadsword (I don't have this form)
Chiang Su Lian Si Spear Fighting Tech. (I know this form and tested on it)
Luo Chia Chiang Luo Family Spear (I know this form and tested on it)
May Hua Chiang May Flower Spear (I know this form and tested on it)
Yang Chia Chiang Yang Family Spear (I know this form and tested on it)
Se Mien Pa Huan Saung Tao Oo 4 Face 8 Dir. Broadsword (I don't have this form)
Tien Ta Suang Hu Tou Kou Double Tiger Hook Swords Shake Heaven (I'm currently working on this form)
Yen Tse Tien Hsia Tao Swallow Sweeps Down from Heaven (I don't have this form)
U Si Sen Hua 5 Animal Live Training (set of dynamic exercises based on animal movement)
U Si Se Hua 5 Animal Dead Training (set of isometric exercises based on animal movement)
U Si Nei Hua 5 Animal ShienTien Chi Training (qigong set based on 5 element theory represented by different animals)
I Chin Ching Change Muscle & Tendon (isometric exercises 49 in total; I don't know them all and I can't do justice to all that I do know)
I've been doing this 17 years, so I don't think it's too much material for that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilhytholt
which yang tai chi form? the one we learn first is the yang 64, which most people end up doing in 9-11 minutes, though it is supposed to be done much slower, around 15-20 minutes.
there is no form in SD up to black that done at a moderate pace should take more than 2 minutes. these are pretty short forms.
even up to 3rd black there isn't much that breaks 4 minutes at what I call a moderate pace. unless you count the internal stuff, pa kua, yang and chen tai chi, yin-yang dagger etc.
and how many people actually have all 150 that have been taught? likely only the senior masters would have something approaching this much material.
I can go through every form up to black belt in less than an hour... it really isn't that much. the forms from first to third black, another hour. This is not including any of the slow moving internal forms or the training excersises/qigong. thats the stuff that bites me for time. an hour and a half just to do the Hua Tuo Qigong sets for instance.
I'm not saying it isn't a lot to keep up with, just less than it may seem like coming from a different style.
really 2-3 hours a day is more than enough to keep up with it. of course more is always better.
Yeah, sorry, I haven't been on here in a long time. I haven't really had time to post on forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Pen
That doesn't sound so bad, then, but it sounds like things are a bit top-heavy, like you don't do much up to black belt level.
It isn't that I don't like forms, it's just that I don't like learning a lot of new forms. But at least you spar a lot. Most schools don't spar a lot, which is a royal pain in the neck.
It sounds at least like the structure of the class is very good. I would go for that structure if I didn't have to learn a lot of new forms. I guess if you like the style and plan on sticking with one school for a long long time then your school would be a good one.
Second Black Belt to Third Black Belt
Oo Hsing Chien Fist of Five Roads (I have these forms and tested on them)
Oo Hsing Lian Huan Chien Five Road Linkage Form (I have this form and tested on it)
Hsing I Se Ar Hsing Hsing I 12 Animal Forms (I have these forms and tested on them)
Hsing I Chien San Sou Pau Hsing I Two Man Set (I have these forms and tested on them)
Tai Chi Ar Se Se Tse Tai Chi Combined Form (24) (I have this form)
Hoo Hur Suang Hsing Tiger Crane Duet (I'm currently working this form up)
Pai Hou Pai Fu White Monkey Prays to Budda (I took a seminar on this form from a different style; I have seen SD's version, but don't know it)
Shaolin Pai Yen Tang Lang Chen White's Monkey Praying Mantis (don't have this form)
Tai Chi Chien Tai Chi Sword (I have this form and tested on it)
Tai Chi San San Liu Tai Chi Fan (36) (I could work this form up if need be)
Se Mien Pa Hung Chien Tabletop Sword (I have this form and tested on it)
Chi Sing Chien Seven Star Sword (I have this form and tested on it)
Chuan Yung Chien Skewer the Sun Sword (don't have this form)
Tan Tao Tue Chiang Broadsword vs. Spear (don't have this form)
Chway Chien Drunken Sword (don't have this form)
Shaolin Tao Su Way of the Shaolin Sword (don't have this form)
You do a lot, but it is fundamentals. Stances. Sparring. Conditioning. the building blocks for the material you learn later.Quote:
Originally Posted by neilhytholt
Ie Lu Hua Chien 1st Road of Hua Fist (working on it)
Ar Lu Hua Chien 2nd Road of Hua Fist (working on it)
San Lu Hua Chien 3rd Road of Hua Fist (working on it)
Se Lu Hua Chien 4th Road of Hua Fist (coming soon)
Hua Chien Tue Ta Ti Ie Pu Hua Fist 2 Man Set#1 (coming soon)
Hua Chien Tue Ta Ti Ar Pu Hua Fist 2 Man Set#2 (coming soon)
Hua Chien Modern Hua Fist (I don't have)
Chang Chien Long Fist (I don't have)
Tai Tse Chien Fist of the Grand Ultimate Mercy (I could work it up if need be)
Tang Lang Chien Praying Mantis Fist (I don't have)
Pang Lung Pang Entwine the Dragon (I don't have)
Ar Chi Tao Su 2nd Level Broadsword (I don't have)
Tie Pien Tsua Lung Wang Oo Dance of the Dragon King (7 link whip) (I don't have)
Suang Tie Pa Chie Tao Butterfly Knives (I don't have)
Yang Se Tai Chi Tao Tai Chi Broadsword (I don't have)
Tai Chi Tao Tue Ta Tai Chi Broadsword 2 man set (I don't have)
-- Iron Bone Training (training and excercises; usually taught in a seperate class)
-- Weight Vest Conditioning (training and excercises; usually taught in a seperate class)
By breaking them up in groups like rank or by likeness and doing a set or two each day. After a while, they just sort of stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
How many styles of SD are there?:p The long Long First is Cha Chuan Set A, what ever the heck that means. There is also a Set B that hasn't been taught. The "childs " form is called such from the formal name meaning the first or young Long fists set. ( The actual name eludes me at the moment)Quote:
Originally Posted by JP
Me ...Me....(raises hand and waves) plus a few that havent been taught;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushing
And to the whole buffet analogy...its true that there is a lot being served out, but generally, you might taste alot but you will one eat a lot of what you like. Having been in classes with most of the masters and older (time wise students) and having learned everything that has been shown, no two of them fight alike. Each sifted through the material, found what fit them best and specialized in it. There is one that loves Pa Kua and when you spar him, he will be behind you before you know it. There is another that if you blink, he will lay his foot on your shoulder (he's like the Hua stuff), then another if you get close, he will hit you about 10 times before you can react. So even though each learned all that was out there, the spent the most time on what appealed to them. I guess thats the beautiful of having all the choices.
And I be at the monkey seminar 9th..and glad to see you back..