I change my vote based on JP's new pictures.
That's him.
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I change my vote based on JP's new pictures.
That's him.
I was about the say that those are certainly not the same guy as in the infamous "Tai Jin" photo, but that one at the bottom right seems very similar... the hair is not parted as neatly, but the eyebrows are very similar. In any case, I can't wait for Dr. Dikotter's response to your question, as I only just recapped on the section of the forum that TWS referenced.
I also have to say that the "Tai Jin" picture has him showing a very warm, sincere smile. Whoever he was, the guy probably had it pretty bad for a while, so I dunno why, but I find that very moving.
This is similar to matching someone's skull that has shoulder length hair to someone else with long hair however I agree with MK. I'm not certain but it does seem to be him from that top right and bottom right pic.
And something that needs to be corrected. I had thought GMT said he was never a monk, am quite certain of that. In an article dating from the mid '80s IKF mag, James Halliday wrote that there were 320+ Shaolin based forms. M. Hiang states on his site of several instructors that also were there in Bandung.
Does anyone know of any videos of Sin The doing forms or sparring?
Point sparring is a game. It doesn't mean anything when it comes to combat ability. I know that. I was just curious to see what you would answer.
See, the problem with that quote is that there is full contact tournaments around. Even though he may have been refferring to point sparring, it doesn't specify that. Traditional martial arts are designed for out-of-ring righting. This doesn't mean they can't be used in the ring. The quote comes off as the "too deadly" excuse.
on this page here:
http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaol.../history2.html
there are some subtle differences to what shaolin do says...they seem to make the story more concrete as to how so many forms matriculated into the system
also a new pic of su kong...and the page also states that su kong tai jin was a name he came to be called...so maybe he is the zoo man?
I study SD and my school does not point spar. Point sparring is when you stop the moment contact is made. We do not do that at all... punches are pulled to the face but the body is fair game. We go until the other basically stops defending himself.
The benefit of this is that you focus more on your technique verses just getting that one shot in. I've thrown out a lot of techniques because they land but leave me in a horrible position afterwards therefore resulting in getting my a$$ handed to me.
I don't see why everyone gets so hung up on lineage of SD. If they told me today that all along I had really been studying Kempo I wouldn't care. It's not about the name to me. It either works or it doesn't and I've come a long way since I started.
here you go look at this are these 2 the same person ? I tried to upload a pic hope it comes out KC:)
if you look at the shape of the mouth you can see the similarities
i think it is the same person..
i think su kong became the zoo man
I've come to realize that there are two types of people who train martial arts. Those who really care about lineage, and those who do not. Personally, I think that if you are the second type, you should just leave this argument alone. It doesn't help anything to say, "well, even if the lineage is made up, it doesn't change the quality of training." That's not a good answer when people are asking for factual, historical answers that can be verified to support SD claims. I used to say that, too, but I now understand it's the wrong way to go about it.
It's comparable to someone asking about another art's ground techniques and saying, "we just strike, because we don't need to go to the ground." This always seems to me to be the ego's answer. What you're really doing is blowing a smoke screen. If an aspect of martial arts doesn't matter to you, don't bother jumping in the conversations about it, right? By all means, ask questions, but I don't see what good it does to beg the question with unrelated answers meant to divert attention to a well-recognized, positive aspect of SD. If you don't know, just say you don't know.
I hope this doesn't come across as antagonistic towards anyone, I just feel that we're not getting anywhere because the people who want answers aren't looking for they ones their being given. And I wouldn't blame them, because most of what they seem to get is smoke. That's not to say the answers aren't out there...I'm just saying that this forum seems to have found its limit on the available answers.
(But, I also feel that 90% of everyone on here is looking to prove a point rather than find an answer...so I feel there's little point to the lineage discussion.)
NinthDrunk,
I hear (er, well, read) what you're saying. Personally, I like the debate. And I've really learned a great deal about SD and other styles here. Frankly, I always didn't know what I thought or believed and this forum is an anvil for me to hammer out these thoughts.
Here we go, how about this one?
No one has any clips of Sin The doing forms or sparring?