Pre wushu Shaolin, or post wushu era Shaolin?
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ahh..you said which system of Gung-Fu SHOULD represent to the wrold. I thought you meant which system WOULD represent to the world.
So, what you are asking is, what do we think is the best representation of TCMA in its purity?
I think that would be Hung-Kuen and Jook Lum mantis.....and some Shuai Jiao thrown in..(haha I said, "thrown!")
but I'm just a wee tad biased...
Greetings,
For Faruq:
Hui Cambrelen: He would take on ANYBODY. He is a true urban legend. His fights were mostly underground. The top student of Grandmaster Wai Hong.
Tayari Casel: Fought successfully in the Karate circuit on the East Coast. Known for his groundfighting. Student of Master George Hu Ling
Paul Vizzio: Fought underground fights as well as in the PKA. In the latter he showed the effectiveness of Chinese style kicking. Another high ranking student of Grandmaster Wai Hong.
In terms of losses, that is what it would take for more to be taught. If you would look at Mainland China's approach to the current MA scene, they are looking at it and studying it with the goal of becoming NUMBER ONE. The effectiveness of Kung fu vs Karate was a major question here in NYC back then because street effectiveness was needed and because of the economics of it. The already established Karate Schools would lose money if the public saw the CMA as superior. Case in point: Tayari Casel participated in a Karate vs Kung Fu events at Aaron Banks' Oriental World of Self Defense. Banks tried his best to stack the odds against Tayari Casel. He did not put a straight up Karate guy against Casel. He had him go against "Little" John Davis, a Vee- Jitsu practitioner. They fought three rounds. Though Casel lost by only one point, those who witnessed it though it was the best match they had seen in their life. I had the opportunity to see the first round and the decision on ABC's Wide World of Sports. At the decision time Casel looked incredibly composed and was hardly sweating. Little John Davis looked as if he spent three days in Hell. He was drenched in sweat. And when he was given the win, his face looked as if he knew otherwise.
mickey
let's also not forget the match between Tayari Casel and Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, another "stacked" fight.
Greetings TenTigers,
I never saw that fight. I do remember reading a response from Tayari Casel about the fight in Official Karate. Apparently, he was told that he was allowed to use groundfighting before the match only to find that the match was stopped every time he went to the ground and was told to get up. So he could not fight his fight.
mickey
Greetings Family. To: Faruq and Mickey, China has Two Faces at All times;One Private,One Public. In My travels to China and Asia;I noticed that Family and Weatlh come First;Not Chinese Martial arts. A full Rice Bowl is the goal,that being said Fighters such as Hui, Tayari, Paul All had to work jobs and train kung-fu.When you do not have worry about food,clothing,housing,money;a person can train,study,and eat the proper foods to be Number one.Also,Its Others such as Sifu's Nganga Tolonaa of Chicago,Carl Albright, Raymond Fogg, Twa-ku of the Egyptian fighting arts society in chicago who have displayed Great groundfighting skills throughout the early years. In addition, We can not win fights,using MMA rules. The Art of Shuai Chiao as taught by Great Master Chang Tung Sheng is a Counter to MMA Fights. The Goal is Full-Time Fighters and Trainers. Be Well.NM.
I like to look at TCMA from the angle of speed, power, throw, and lock. IMO, the
- prey mantis, Zimen can represent the speed generation,
- Baji, Chen Taiji, XYLH can represent the power generation,
- SC can represent the throwing art,
- eagle claw, longfist can represent the locking art,
for the TCMA.
Thanks, Mickey. I only know who Hui Cambrelen is from seeing an old 70s documentary called "the Warrior Within" if I'm not mistaken. It inteviewed a young Hui who told of walking through NYC's Chinatown and being attacked one day and having stabbed his attacker in the eye with 2 chop sticks. I wish there was some kind of blog or book (like Piri Thomas' "Down These Mean Streets") that told the full story of Hui's urban legend. Isn't he in Puerto Rico now? And Tak Wah Eng is another of Wai Hong's guys isn't he? I don't know much else about him other than having watched his ESPY-TV iron palm tape. Anyway, very interesting what you say about all of the guys you mention. I wish there were more information about all of their exploits. Thanks again.
Chuck Norris.