BSL Lyrics: Shaolin #6 (The short strike)

Alright, I have a question about #6 that will betray my density... especially considering I may have asked this question before. :o

We call #6 "Tun Da" or "The Short Strike" as Gene translated it above. Why? Is this an overall theme or concept that the set is created around? So far for me, the sets have mostly just been a collection of techniques; I have only a very basic concept of what each set's "meaning" might be. For example #1 has a bajillion kicks, #2 is ambidextrous, #3 spends a lot of time in low stances, #9 is the most fluid, etc.

...although I'd probably translate it the same way. Duan (tun) means short or brief. Duanbing xiang jie means close quarter fighting. Da means strike as in the four basic attack ti da shuai na. When Lam Sifu and I began the lyrics translations from his notes, the titles of the forms had already been translated by some previous student of his. These titles, along with their unsystematic romanizations from Cantonese, were perpetuated in our school. I decided to honor that when we did the lyrics translations. It's a bit problematic, but not as problematic as the translation of dao as broadsword. Don't even get me started on the O-mei - Emei issue. :rolleyes:

Anyway, that doesn't really answer your question. I've always interpreted that title as referring to the fact that #6 is a short form, at least in comparison to most BSL. It's a fairly common title for a form. I've heard it used in other systems to refer to completely different forms, but right now, I'm blocking on where...

"Duan da" appears to be an old concept in CMA. A style by that name is mentioned in Qi Jiguang's 16th century text. Also, it is mentioned and explicitly contrasted with "Chang quan" i.e. long boxing, in the Qing dynasty "Quan jing quanfa beiyao." As Gene mentioned, there are other styles that have forms called "Duan da," I have a book with a set that I believe comes from Jingwu (the book demonstrates Gongliquan, 12 road tantui and Duan da), and Deqian's Shaolin Encyclopedia also has a Shaolin duan da quan form that is also described as containing lots of close-quarter techniques. Since the term seems to have some history connected with short-range fighting, I would imagine that is what the creators of our BSL set had in mind when they named it. But maybe we will never know... :)

....duh.... I knew I heard that somewhere before...:o

tectically speaking, not a lot of the form metes out as close quarter stuff.

there are very noticable long range techniques in it with some short range stuff, but more reaching type stuff.

it takes up a lot of room too in it's techniques and covers a bit of distance in it's execution.

so, im not entirely sure why it's called short strike either.

wing chuns sets are much shorter range in all iterations.

i always think in terms of elevator fighting when thinking about short range stuff.

IE: up and in your grill, inside the gate, clinch range is short range by my reckoning. Tun Da doesn't have a lot of that, although it does have some that is obviously grabs holds and short sweeps in close.

The appearance of the form to an uninitiated practitioner would appear medium to long range but trust me it is all short strike. Defense against chokes from behind, Defense against arm bars, with quick inside grabs (butterfly palms) followed by double knee strikes and leg splitting arrow kicks. Whirling circular blocks that FEEL like a football tackle. Nasty throws, short ranged leaping kicks THROUGH the throat and on and on. As that patent Italian sauce motto goes "It's in there". Wish my slippery slithering silver tongue could spill down through my ham handed stiff nose pickin' fingers to break it all down for you but no such luck. I just practice a lot I ain't smart enough to write about it in a coherent fashion.

And sorry Gene but I got the lock on crappy Kung Fu.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Jamieson

tectically speaking, not a lot of the form metes out as close quarter stuff.

there are very noticable long range techniques in it with some short range stuff, but more reaching type stuff.

it takes up a lot of room too in it's techniques and covers a bit of distance in it's execution.

so, im not entirely sure why it's called short strike either.

wing chuns sets are much shorter range in all iterations.

i always think in terms of elevator fighting when thinking about short range stuff.

IE: up and in your grill, inside the gate, clinch range is short range by my reckoning. Tun Da doesn't have a lot of that, although it does have some that is obviously grabs holds and short sweeps in close.

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Lokhopkuen,

You are again correct that the short strikes are in BSL#6 and is properly named as such. This set demonstrates how to close the gap quickly, how to trap and lock your opponent's horse while closing in and striking.

Do not get caught up in the first level application (obvious applications) but discover the second level applications (I'm not talking a variation of the obvious applications). On the surface, BSL looks like all the other styles but it contains far more than an untrained eye sees. BSL is one of those styles that are referred to as "a style with very deep levels of understanding that are sometimes difficult for everyone to grasps without spending real time in studying it". From Lokhopkuen's statement, I know he has practiced BSL for many years, with many hours of hard practice. Only until one has practice BSL like Lokhopkuen has, will one begin to really appreciate and really understand the hidden treasures of BSL. I know exactly what Lokhopkuen is saying.

No doubt there are many movements to use in close. But isn't that true of all the sets?

R,

Yes it is true in the other BSL sets but only in isloated techniques but more so in BSL#6.. By looking at how the techquines are linked together in BSL#6 and compare it to any sequence of techniques in the other BSL sets will give you a better picture of what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by NorthernShaolin

R,

Yes it is true in the other BSL sets but only in isloated techniques but more so in BSL#6.. By looking at how the techquines are linked together in BSL#6 and compare it to any sequence of techniques in the other BSL sets will give you a better picture of what I'm saying.

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I'll see if I can work it out. Thanks for the guidance.

Maxwang,

BSL = Bak Siu Lum or, in Mandarin, bei shao lin. The meaning of the term isn't that specific (you could call many things "Northern Shaolin"), but we understand "BSL" to refer to a specific style, of which beiquan and LokHopKuen showed us some examples.

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Originally Posted by Maxwang

Beiquan and Lokhopkuen very nice sets! The one I do is a bit different but I can see some similarities.

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Thank you Maxwang!
Actually Beiquan is way better than the video he is showing. That one is old and there are many subtleties that he has internalized since. I have gotten older, slower and meaner ha-ha!

Northern Shaolin thank you for your words. Coming from an expert like you I feel all a glow:D

Short strike as with all of the other Northern Shaolim forms contains a series of extraordinary skills uncommon to most martial art. For instance the leaping front toe kick when performed the way I was taught is a double lifting snapping leg attack to the upper gate delivered at the apex of said leap, landing on the same leg you leapt from and using jing generated from that landing to launch the next technique which in our progression is the side kick in the opposite direction.

To quote my teacher:

The emphasis of this form is on techniques and combinations that are applied when up- close (within arms reach) with your opponent.

In contrast to the short-range (or short- hand) Southern Kung Fu styles such as Wing Chun and Southern Praying Mantis, this set also includes techniques and tactics of how to get into close range with your opponent from a distance. Like all short range fighting styles, combinations include hand trapping, simultaneous block-strike techniques, and footwork/tactics to ‘stick’ to the opponent.

The longer you practice, the more you consider what you have practiced the deeper it gets. I have also noticed that the more SIMPLE a form appears once you meditate long and hard on it, it is just as complex.

This inscrutable Yin and Yang stuff just drives me nuts!!!!!

On another note one of my students who is a Marine Recon operative just returned from Iraq. During his tour of duty he saw a few of his mates killed in the line of duty and was nearly killed himself. Thank god for the new body armor and high tech trauma plates. In the time I knew him as my student before he went to war I was only able to share Lim Po, Tan Tui and Tun Da with him. He says the things he learned in military training were of great benefit yet he attributes his survival to the lessons he learned in our Northern Shaolim classes. Tell me brothers what more could a teacher want than to hear something like this from a young man who risked everything to serve his country?


Peace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lokhopkuen

The appearance of the form to an uninitiated practitioner would appear medium to long range but trust me it is all short strike. Defense against chokes from behind, Defense against arm bars, with quick inside grabs (butterfly palms) followed by double knee strikes and leg splitting arrow kicks. Whirling circular blocks that FEEL like a football tackle. Nasty throws, short ranged leaping kicks THROUGH the throat and on and on. As that patent Italian sauce motto goes "It's in there". Wish my slippery slithering silver tongue could spill down through my ham handed stiff nose pickin' fingers to break it all down for you but no such luck. I just practice a lot I ain't smart enough to write about it in a coherent fashion.

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I'd appreciate it if you tried anyway. I'm sure many others would, too. :)

well, i guess you could find a lot of things in the set. after all, there are multiple applications to a great variety of movements in cma in general.

I really haven't tried any of the techs extrapolated out and placed into play in clinch range from this set vs a resisting opponent. Still working with the southern materials I have but will eventually come around to stripping down the few bsl sets I have and do this with them as well.

My way of looking at it is to extrapolate the tech out and then to attempt to apply in an offensive or defensive way to find the quality of the technique. I try not to make any assumptions with any of the sets I have been taught and have learnt over the years.

Sometimes it takes a little time to find the keys. But then a light goes on and there they are! :p

Shaolin #6 starts at 1:20mins into the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcSBl5F-2kw

but BE WARNED this "interpretation" is quite.....er.....something different

nevertheless interesting.

kids are good. :)