John,
Any reason you think Is storing?
For me, From the clip, as how Gm Fung explain the technique dynamic of open the middle door of the opponent in time , speed is much more likely.
Printable View
John,
Jim, when Sifu Fung mentioned "Chuk Ging", was he referring to Chuk as in "Storing" or Chuk as in "Rapid/Speed"?
Chuk (speedy)
Peace,
Understood. Thanks.
A side to topic. Your jing yuan and six rings utube are very interesting.
In the jing yuan clip, do you have to take the income force direct going through your front to back , as straight line to your back of the chest , and then reflect it out via the out side or yang side of the arms? Or just reflect it out via the outside of the arm as soon as opponent press in without have to go to the back of the back to open and close there?
It has to travel the whole path; but like a hose filled with water, when one end is pushed, water comes out the other end and the hose does not move.
So I don't really have to move much; it's the opponent who pushes himself off.
Hendrik, if you would like to discuss this further, let's start another thread so we don't hijack Jim's. :o
Hmm I don't know how to take that comment ;)
I have never 'played' Wing Chun! :D
And so it makes even more sense that we would have many things in common, but why is it that you are so determined to claim otherwise, and try to discredit an outstanding life-long Martial Artists in the process?
Dude. Sifu Joe Lee put that information out way back in the day so any variations in spelling may just be down to the students that put the original articles together. Fong Yee Min and Fung Min are one and the same. Now if he only produced 2 successors that doesn't mean to say he didn't teach others, does it?
And like you say, we only have a flavour of Kulo WC according to what you have seen, but a very rich old flavour imho.
Well, there you have it. You have now learnt something more about Lee Shing! He didn't stop learning Wing Chun when he arrived in the UK. He, for one, visited Ip Man every year from 1963 for private tuition and updates and he continued his research by traveling through Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand.
As for him learning from 10 years old, I believe it was earlier than that. He was into Martial Arts and being brought up in Hoxan, Guandong, he had plenty of opportunity to learn from some of the best of the time. This is still being researched too but I don't see it as that important.
Fact is, many things you talk of have been embedded within Lee Shings own training for a time, and as his grandstudent I can see how and why we do things the way we do because my overview of the Wing Chun system as a whole is very wide imo I understand the need to continue to learn and this is why I originally came to the forum, so I could meet people who could help join the dots just like you and a few others here.
Thank you for sharing your findings, I will have to retire now and let the thread continue on it's path.
Spencer,
Dude. Sifu Joe Lee put that information out way back in the day so any variations in spelling may just be down to the students that put the original articles together. Fong Yee Min and Fung Min are one and the same. Now if he only produced 2 successors that doesn't mean to say he didn't teach others, does it?
Joe Lee and I spoke on the phone regarding this. Joe clearly states, Lee Shing said Wong Wah Sam's heir was Fong YM, and, Fong YM was not a Fung. He (Joe Lee) was also clear when he stated to me; Only Fong YM got Wong Wah Sam's real Kung Fu!!! His words, not mine. So it seems Lee Shing fed him a little bit of stuff that makes the grass grow. ;)
BTW: Yes. Fung Min only taught his son (Fung Daat) and nephew (Fung Ju). He did not casually teach people. This is starting to remind me of the Yip Man-Leung Bik stories to boost seniority except we have more access to family to know what's what! JR
Well, there you have it. You have now learnt something more about Lee Shing! He didn't stop learning Wing Chun when he arrived in the UK. He, for one, visited Ip Man every year from 1963 for private tuition and updates and he continued his research by traveling through Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand.
Actually I think you have learned more about Lee Shing since this discussion :). The above info. could explain how he may have met Fung Sang and also explain why Lee Shing made people play Yip Man WC before introducing them to his PSWC. He probably didn't know any when he started teaching in the UK. JR
As for him learning from 10 years old, I believe it was earlier than that. He was into Martial Arts and being brought up in Hoxan, Guandong, he had plenty of opportunity to learn from some of the best of the time. This is still being researched too but I don't see it as that important.
Go to any Kung Fu school and watch a kids class. Other than being a great spot for an hour or so of baby sitting not much is grasped at that age. Well, we are just talking Kulo lineage info. and Lee Shing's stories claim he learned Pin Sun before arriving in HK and meeting some of Yip's pupils.. Now we are realizing it is probably more likely that he got a little training during some of his visits later in life. After 1963! JR
Fact is, many things you talk of have been embedded within Lee Shings own training for a time, and as his grandstudent I can see how and why we do things the way we do because my overview of the Wing Chun system as a whole is very wide imo I understand the need to continue to learn and this is why I originally came to the forum, so I could meet people who could help join the dots just like you and a few others here.
Yes. The forums have been a good place to meet and share with others. It also help clear up a lot of mysteries thanks to so much info. being share. The more we all discuss this stuff the more we get a more likely. JR
Thank you for sharing your findings, I will have to retire now and let the thread continue on it's path.
I enjoyed the chat. I also hope the info. helped clear up some stuff.
Peace,
I am beginning to see where you are coming from Jim.
It may not be beneficial for either of us to continue here because your tone seems to have gone on the offensive for some reason.
I just want to highlight and confirm what you are saying here. My Sigung fed one of his closest students of over 30 years a crock of what exactly??
[QUOTE=Jim Roselando;1151891]Spencer,
BTW: Yes. Fung Min only taught his son (Fung Daat) and nephew (Fung Ju). He did not casually teach people. This is starting to remind me of the Yip Man-Leung Bik stories to boost seniority except we have more access to family to know what's what! JR
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Silly sniping (Yip Man-Leung Bik) in Jim's guao pedigree game. (VBG).
Not necessary imo in the discussion with Spencer.
joy c
Spencer,
Where am I coming from? We are discussing Kulo art, history and practitioners correct. Just because some of my info. does not match your story it does not mean I going on some kind of offensive to discredit anyone. All I said was:
I find it hard to believe based on this or that.....
Now. Most on this forum have been around the Chinese community for along time. Those who have been know certain things are common and one thing that is very common is linking to a popular person rather than giving credit to where it deserves to be. If Lee Shing studied with Fung Sang that means he was being taught by someone who was almost TWENTY YEARS YOUNGER THAN HE WAS!!! For many traditionalists that is not something that is ok.
So, is it possible he made up some of his Kulo history? Yes it is possible. Does that mean he didn't care for his long time students??? Absolutely not! That is the possible Crock (his history) I am talking about.......
I do believe he got some training with Fung Sang after the 60's so just because the story and timeline doesn't match it does not mean he did not have some Pin Sun experience.
Peace,
Jim
I am beginning to see where you are coming from Jim.
It may not be beneficial for either of us to continue here because your tone seems to have gone on the offensive for some reason.
I just want to highlight and confirm what you are saying here. My Sigung fed one of his closest students of over 30 years a crock of what exactly??
Joy,
Silly sniping (Yip Man-Leung Bik) in Jim's guao pedigree game. (VBG).
Not necessary imo in the discussion with Spencer.
***
I disagree. It was the most common example I could think of at the moment!
The Kulo art is very young and retained within a very very small group of people. There is no pedigree game just research being presented/debated. Maybe others have different timelines/dates/etc. from me that they can presented but no doubt the reason I said that was because it was an easy example.
Numerous Yip people say he learned with Leung Bik. Numerous Yip people say that was not true. If some of Yip's people were told one or the other does that mean he (Yip) was not teaching them to the best of his ability or didn't like them????? Of course not. It just means the story may not hold water...........
Peace,
Hmmm... I think you are missing a vital point here. Isn't it possible that the whole 'Kulo' and 'Pin Sun' tags are just recent inventions to highlight a different approach to training Wing Chun other than Ip Mans system? Or maybe even something more sinister??!
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...8_949141_n.jpg
This tree is what the entire family use as a reference to our Sigungs past. It was constructed while he was alive too (and even then there was mention of Leung Bik and his brother!) Come to think of it, there's mention of Jee Shim too: aint that a surprise!!?? What I am trying to get at is an earlier version of this exact tree was around before you had even heard the term Kulo Wing Chun.
I will never forget what I myself have researched about Lee Shing, after being a very close student to one of his eldest still alive. And there are others, older than me, that have done MORE (they know who they are!)
I have said before he was not 'students' of the likes of Fung Sang/Jiu Wan/Lok Yiu, they were his peers and martial brothers. And sometimes it is with these guys that you 'really train' your stuff. It was Ip Man that 'formalized' Lee Shings lifetimes work and I will never forget or belittle that because that is the whole reasoning behind Wing Chun arriving in the UK. Fact.