"You ever get the feeling that all of kung fu is deadly, that what we think is "pretty" or "flashy" is actually our human desire for destruction."
that must be it.:rolleyes:
________
MEDICAL MARAJUANA DISPENSARY
Printable View
"You ever get the feeling that all of kung fu is deadly, that what we think is "pretty" or "flashy" is actually our human desire for destruction."
that must be it.:rolleyes:
________
MEDICAL MARAJUANA DISPENSARY
I've never used butterfly kicks before. Can they serve the purpose of clearing away masses of people?Quote:
Originally Posted by mantiskilla
Do a butterfly kick on a heavy bag and give us a report back and let us know what happens:)
Butterfly kicks are more for training coordination, timing, flexiblility and strength. The practical use could be a counter on a throw or MAYBE avioding a low technique.
WL seems to incorporate physical conditioning into their fighting forms.
It replaces some of the cross training you would do like running and leg strengthing exercises into the fighting forms. This does not mean you still should not run or lift.
If you have a good instructor who understands the fighting and how to apply what is in the stystem this should not be a problem. The most important thing is having a qualified instructor. This goes for any system.
"I've never used butterfly kicks before. Can they serve the purpose of clearing away masses of people?"
Possibly from laughter...but then the person would have to land sometime.
"Do a butterfly kick on a heavy bag and give us a report back and let us know what happens"
I like that idea. Sounds very scientific...my hypothesis is that you'll bust your @ss.
________
HAIRY LIVE
Good to see you posting again mantiskilla. Do you have aerials in your Dragon Style? I have yet to see these kicks in the Mantis that I am learning.
Hey Yushan
no. there are a lot more kicks than people think, but nothing along those lines (from what i have seen so far). no butterfly kicks in Pong Lai? that is not surprising to me. almost ran into the Tampa Wah Lum school on sunday while we, and they, were doing lion dance in sarasota...we were at my sifus restaurant...they were watching from the other side of the parking lot when they were finished, but packed up and left without saying hi. looked like some of the students wanted to come over and watch, but probably weren't allowed. maybe next year.
________
Host and design
But unlike a heavy bag - you're counting on the people to get outta way. they're not going to be standing around when kicks are flying at full speed at head height are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by mantiskilla
Butterfly kicks are definately "move outta way" moves. It might not hit anything but that's not the point, its the fear factor of ppl afraid of being hit that earns you the credits.
A lot about fighting is knowing how to posture, to bluff and double bluff - like poker the person who folds first loses regardless of what card he / she has.
green willow
"But unlike a heavy bag - you're counting on the people to get outta way. they're not going to be standing around when kicks are flying at full speed at head height are they? "
Maybe, maybe not. this idea may be crazy, but some people actually train against kicks. If I change my angle a little, there could be a nasty surprise inside. If you are counting on people backing out everytime you kick, you could be surprised.
you are making a lot of suppositions, so i will make one of my own. If someone turns their back on me, I am moving in. The kick will not get off the ground, and the person will probably have my knee in their face. now...if i am too slow to move in, you are probably right, I will back out or change angles instead of sitting in the same spot waiting for the person to do whatver it is they are considering. I cant believe that you are seriously entertaining this idea though.
"It might not hit anything but that's not the point, its the fear factor of ppl afraid of being hit that earns you the credits."
Are you talking about a video game? I thought the point was to hurt the other person more than they hurt you. You get the 'credits' when they stop fighting.
"A lot about fighting is knowing how to posture, to bluff and double bluff - like poker the person who folds first loses regardless of what card he / she has."
if you are talking about feints, and setting up other moves ok...but it doesnt sound like that is what you are talking about. if you think that i am going to run away because someone pulls a butterfly kick...it is going to be just the opposite effect. fighting is not like poker. when you get hit, or hit the other person...that is it. the cards are on the table and you know immediately if you are in trouble or in control. you can feel it.
________
INFANTS PRILOSEC
There is no way in h*ll I`m leaving my feet during a fight. I want my feet firmly planted, ready to move.
Greetings..
MC once said that some of the aerial techniques were used to take a rider off his horse..
Aerial techniques are flashy ways to finish an already stunned or injured opponent.. but, unwise to employ against a capable opponent.. Aerial techniques give the practitioner confidence and good training in coordination, they also add stability to grounded applications..
Mostly, though, aerial techniques preserve the Art..
Be well..
Amen. They're fun in forms, but have limited application agasint a trained fighter. IN some circumstances a skip or jump kick may work, but you would have to pick those times very carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by yu shan
Butterfly kicks may be a counter to a throw or a way to avoid a low technique. If your really lucky you might use it to gain momentum on a kick at the end, but your plant leg would be firmly rooted at that point. I'm not good enough to actually try that technique in a live situation though.
Some exceptional martial artists have some "aerial" moves that work. Cung Le's scissor kick comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by yu shan
I'd rather knock someone off their feet than leave the ground personally. Gravity and pizza have seen to it that I remain that way.
isol8d
You are so right, Cung Le`s scissor take down move is very effective.
LOL, gotcha on the pizza and gravity thing, a constant battle.
3 pages of discussion on the relative merits of a butterfly kick in a real fight? Amazing. Your creativity and dedication to ideals is what brings me back to this forum time after time. ;)
I think I'll side with those who believe that while you can certainly puzzle out some semi-useful theoretical scenario like avoiding sweeps, leaping barrels rolled down a ramp at you by a giant gorilla who's kidnapped your girlfriend, etc. the true value of a butterfly kick is for training (balance, leg strength, body awareness...) and perhaps to add some flair to a performance form. In close-fitting jeans and sole-worn sneakers in a bar crowded with tables and a beer-soaked floor, and without having had the benefit of a few minutes to stretch out first, my feet will stay firmly planted on the floor 90% of the time, and the kicks that I do throw will be targeted at or below the waist.
- CS
Yes but people who train in kicks also train in dealing with people who have trained to deal in kicks. get the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by mantiskilla
Basically you might think right - this is a butterfuly kick and you side step. Don't forget, I'm spinning in mid air and I bet my rotation is faster than you moving on the ground. All I need to do is throw out a side kick at 90 degrees to where i'm moving and you'll cop a side kick square across the face.
Next time you might decide to stand still but that's what the butterfly kick is good for - the sissoring action is great for a head high take down. it can snap the neck - serious stuff.
In anycase there is the jumping tornado kick which clears the space 360 degrees. There's no where to hide if you come close. Following the tornado kick is the iron broom which sweeps low at 360 degrees. It's good to take down grapplers who try for a take down.
Yes it's like poker - high stakes but ok - no sweat - when I hold all the aces and you'll be left with the jokers.