Honestly, it is good to inject new terminology to martial art jargon. ;)
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Honestly, it is good to inject new terminology to martial art jargon. ;)
WOW!!! So Northern is vastly superior?!? Why didn't anyone tell me this beforehand!!! I think I'll have to drop my Choy Lay Fut becuase it just can't stand up to t3h d34d1y powers of t3h Northern Arts!!!Quote:
For a simple example, the power generation difference between northern and southern arts is vastly different. Northern art's body structure in power generation is vastly superior to southern's.
Two things:
1: It is good to state who you are quoting so that others can go back and check the context of the quote without wading through every single post.
2: The statement that individual made was entirely to do with power generation. Unless you think that power generation is the only aspect of a martial art that determines it's quality this is not saying anything close to "abandon CLf".
Relax a bit.
Yeah, but the statement is false. The power generation in CLF is very closely related to that found in many northern styles, as is Hung Gar's. Many Shorthand styles utilise a form of energy generation that is similar to the silk reeling found in Taiji, Baji, Bagua etc (as indeed CLF does in a longarm fashion), so really in terms of power generation, if you show a northern example, there'll be a southern equivalent.
Hung Gar is one of the three styles I have learned much of (the other two are Wing Chun and a northern style, Hei Long Wu Shu - that's where I picked up the Shuai Jiao and Chin'na I make reference to on occasion - my Sifu says it's grappling was influenced by Mongol styles. I'm making a trip to Nei Mongu sometime next year and hope to get a chance to witness their wrestling while there). As the one aspect of my own fighting that I am particularly renouned for is power generation and as much of that I learned directly from Hung Gar I agree with you. However Infrazazel could have made his point much better by clearly citing the original source and staying relaxed rather than getting so worked up.
As he is relatively new to the forum (by his post count) I was dropping him a bit of helpful advice, nothing more. :)
"Northern Feet" means footwork---mobility. Not high kicking.
It was quoted by gfx, on page one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonM
I tried to quote the whole thing 5 times but everytime I couldn't post it.
Sorry it was gfx, page 1 of this thread.
I'll agree with you partially. However, it is my understanding that most styles, Northern and Southern alike are Ju Lu Bi (sp?) (ie use "sectional power"), however, the styles like Xing Yi, Taiji and BaGua and some Northern styles at the higher level are not sectional. One part moves, all part moves simultaneously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Gash
In Choy Lay Fut, force is generated from the leg, moves up through the hips, waist, shoulder, elbow and wrist. The force moves in sections thru the body.
In Taiji, force is generated by "bouncing" off the ground, like pressing down on a spring and then the force comes back out through a relaxed structure. In form practice it is gravity compressing "the spring" and and in application it is the opponent + gravity compressing "the spring."
Anyways, that is my understanding. But I like the analogy that martial arts is like a spiral staircase. Depending on where you stand on that staircase you are going to see martial arts slightly differently. Depending on whether you are at a higher or lower level or even if you are nearly at the same level but on a different part of the stairs you might see things completely differently.
Peace. :D
You guys are all being duped! Mega-whatever is a TROLL! Judo Andy is make believe!! Don't feed the TROLLS!
But they're so cute, how can you deny them ;)
Anyway, sometimes they lead to meaningful discussions.
Fu Pow, at the higher levels it's just a different way of describing the same thing. Also remeber that my CLF is not necessarily always the same as your CLF.
Anyway, you've just proved my point, as asynchronous power generation is also a hallmark of Zhaquan :cool:
Yeah, I agree that Northern and Southern arts have asynchronous power generation. In fact, I'd say a very large majority do .Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Gash
But my point is that you rarely, if ever , see synchronous power generation in the Southern arts (or should I say, feel it). Whereas Taiji, Xing Yi and Ba Gua have it and I believe that some of the other Northern arts have it too at what someone else called a "tertiary" level.
Some claim that SPM and such are like Taiji in this respect. But I don't see it. All I see is that they know how to relax. Which is a prerequisite to "synchronous" power but structurally I see what looks like "collapsed" not "peng" (ie inflated.) and there moves are still "asynchronous." Like a whip snapping, not like a spring or ball rolling around.
Can you develop this "synchronous" power on your own even if it is not a part of your system? I think so, sometimes I feel it when doing my Choy Lay Fut. However, I'm not sure if this developed on its own or if it was influence by my Taiji training.
One thing I do know is that the "asynchronous" body mechanic which I have learned through Hung Ga and Choy Lay Fut is an obstacle in my taiji training. Whenever, I push with my teacher it is a weakness that he easily exploits during push hands because he is connected and every joint of his body is synchronized, where as I'm moving section by section.
Anyways, like I said. I believe that we all have a partial truth. No one can be 100 % wrong. We all have a little piece of the puzzle. Our own experiences and personality define the viewpoint that we're looking from.
See to me what you're describing is silk reeling, which should definitely be a part of your CLF expression (techniques like Biu Jong work SO much better with it).
Apparently some of the old 4th generation Sifus from the Chan line really emphasise it , and their performance is almost like Chen Taiji.
Hmmm...interesting...I'd like to see those Sifus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Gash
By "silk reeling" I assume your talking about the coordinated "twining" of the joints. Yes, my CLF definitely has that but, the context or "frame" (for lack of a better word) of that the silk reeling motion is different. In Taiji the twisting motion takes place in a much smaller space. In CLF the twisting is big and wide. So big that the "frame" is broken and "collapses" at the end of the movement. Hence, while the beginning of the move starts out "relaxed" the end of the movement requires tension to maintain the frame.
Whereas in Taiji the "frame" never collapses and so very little tension at beginning or end, each twining motion flows seamlessly into the next movement. The "floatiness" or "expansiveness" of the structure is maintained the whole time, each joint moving very little (compared to CLF) but in perfect sychronicity with all the other joints.
It'd be so very easy to show you. Maybe I will post some videos of myself soon so you can see what I mean. Or at least what I think I mean. :D
Oh...and I do Biu Jong with "silk reeling" and those who don't definitely can't make it work correctly. It ends up looking like a karate outward block.
What do you mean by this? There is a special way to do Biu Jong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fu-Pow
The way I do it is through relaxed "whipping" power like my other CLF attacks -- Biu Jong to me is almost like a diametrically opposed Sau Choy.
However, the power is still the same. But I remember when I first started I used to tense up all the time during a Biu Jong, now I'm relaxed, but what do you mean by "silk reeling?" Should feel it move like a whip, or a wave, or what?
Anyways better to show me in class Fu-Pow.