This is one crazy thread..
In any case, that sounds like Mandarin vs Cantonese and I don't even speak...
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The original words actually have an initial "n" sound rather than "l".
Examples:
Boy/girl
Original: nam/neui
"Lazy": lam/leui
Year
Original: nin
"Lazy": lin
You
Original: nei
"Lazy": lei
The drift has been going on for some time, so yes your sifu could be "lazy". It is prevalent in the HK media so overseas Chinese could easily pick it up too. I also think there is a village/city distinction/prejudice working here as well.
In answer to your question, I would say "nei hou maa" but I would guess most HK Cantonese speakers *would* say "lei hou maa". It has become the norm but the classical way is not wrong either; you just might be taken for a village yokel though.
Acutally, I think the context in "Si Man Yahn" actually refers to either the "well-mannered" person or the "educated" person. "Si Man" basically implies non-rough and in Hong Kong it is frequently referred to a polite, well-mannered individual. "Chung Ming" does mean intellectual, but the intellectual can also be a rough person and not necessarily civil. Just as being "si man" does not automatically imply that the person is an intellectual ("chung ming"). We typically don't associate "chung ming" with "si man". A civil person, however, is going to be well-mannered and less likely (if at all) going to be rough-natured.
"Actually I was taught that for a man "si man" meant gentleman. You and CFT are native speakers so I can always learn from you both.
Phil "
--> You are actually correct. Because a gentleman gives the impression of well-mannered and mild-natured. And so, when we say that a person is "si-man", there is an implication of good manners, gentleman-like attitude, clean-cut type.
Oh, and by the way, from what I have observed on this thread, your Cantonese is pretty good.
Thx, Actually it used to be better when I was in NYC. When I moved to Detroit most of the Chinese there spoke Fu Chow (Fuzhou) so I lost some of my tones. Now I have to repeat myself to get the right tone. There is a stance in the pole form called Diu Mah (hanging horse).
I was explaining it during class and had to ask a one of the Cantonese students the right intonation since it sounds so much like the infamous Cantonese swear . . .lol
This thread was specifically about proper Cantonese Romanization. I thought it was important because some people think the WT, VT, WC, etc, are different, yet the Chinese characters are the same. It may not be important to some but among some Chinese there still in the feeling that Westerners aren't able to fully grasp Chinese martial arts because of language. It may not matter to some but it does matter to me. I don't speak incorrectly in any language. I'm multi-lingual and I strive to pronounce any language properly. My adversion to the teaching of "Ebonics" in the States is one example. If you're going to do something then do it right. If anyone pronounces the "V" in Ving Tsun you might not be inderstood by a native Cantonese speaker. Recently someone seemed offended that I spelled Ip Man's name, Yip Man. Now I understand that individuals have the right to spell their names anyway they want and I respect that. But, if I'm talking to a native Cantonese speaker I WILL say Yip Man in order to be understood.
Peace
Hey Phil is cantonese harder to learn then or mandarin?
Wow! I remember this thread! (But had forgotten about it like most others)
The Ip/Yip as far as pronounciation goes makes sense the way you say here Phil as I too would do the same. Although when I write the name these days I will always use Ip, as this was (apparently) an instruction by the Ip Family. Noted more now seeing as this was the way they wrote it on the movie!
I never thought at the time of writing on this thread that there would ever be an Ip Man movie, but here we are.
Most definitely. Most scholars agree that there are 7 tones in Cantonese. Whereas there are only 4 in Mandarin. A word's meaning can be completely different based on the "musical note" you use. Hai can be the verb 'to be', a shoe, a point in space, and woman's sexual organ, a crab, etc. I lived in Detroit for 10 years and lost my ear for tones. Most Chinese there spoke Fukinese or Mandarin. I never had that problem when I lived in NYC. Now when I teach the Diu Mah stance (hanging horse) in the pole form I have to be careful how I say it. It could mean (fill in the blank) your mother.