Yes, there's no one way to express it, but at the same time, whatever one's WCK is, it should still have the WCK signatures to be WCK.
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"soft" sure can mean different things to different people, if one likes to take it out of context and doing all kind of intepretation.
However, it is a Chinese martial art, so if one follow the Ancient Chinese definition
it is as simple as
"loose and whole in physical, nature in breathing, and a quiet mind. "
Then, things are very clearly define and not up for intepretation.
Also, if one has the Kuen Kuit one can further confirm it.
Such as
全身不可着力量。The whole body must not stick to any "excessive" force
一任自然顺气脉, spontaneously , nature-ly , accord to the flow of the medirians
细味小字妙诀方。carefully tasting the "details : is the wonderful instruction ( to cultivate the art)
Things are very clearly define.
Yup. the SLT is practiced coordinate the Qi, breathing, and physical movement flow. as it said in the kuen kuit above.
Bottom line, wrong direction will arrive at a wrong place. So, it is problematic when free thinking without Ancient Chinese back ground thinking everything is correct that cause problem.
With the crane and snake signature, one could look into different lineages of WCK and see for oneself if the signature is truely embeded there disregards of how the story often was told.
look at this Chan Wa Weng Chun Kuen SL clip starting 8.55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEej1FpJwo
We know Crane is more obvious to be seen in SLT/SNT ...etc now
keep compare different lineages' set practice with the Emei set above which Russell is practiced see for yourself, if Snake slide signature actually is hidden within the SLT/ SNT/SL set?
look at the wrist, some times snap, some times continouos slide and flow and twist....etc.
In the clip, noticed that at the end section start 10.44 the set turn into a moslty White Crane type of art. Which lead to a question of who evolve this section of the art? how come the snake is fading? when and why this happen?
So, Snake slide and crane snap are two key elements of the core of WCK-- the SLT disregards of many different lineages. That is the uniqueness.
As we know we can trace in Chinese official history the existance of White Crane of Fujian since mid 1600. Emei 12 Zhuang (snake type) since 1300 ( one can go to the Beijing museum to check out the lotus cannon of Emei 12 Zhuang.) These two type of arts are identify able.
The "information" in this thread is a joke.
Swallow, spit, lift, these are general southern CMA terms, but they don't have anything to do with WC. Does WC do things that could be described in these terms? Absolutely, but they are foreign to our WC vocabulary.
These are from the Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao system's white crane and O-mei influence, not having to do with wing chun. If Yik Kam had finished his WC, he would use the terms like the rest of the lineages do, without the need for borrowing from other CMA.
As for all this snake slidey nonsense, you can generate power that way for sure, but it's nothing to do with WC. I also don't think white crane is a "mother art" to WCK, could it have been an influence? sure. If Hendrik can point me out where white crane birthed Wong Wa Bo's WC I'd be happy to entertain the idea. Till then, he's just talking an MMA of CMA.
I'm sure this post will get the thread deleted again as Hendrik only wants to hear from people who agree with and suck up to him :rolleyes:
Sure the information in this thread is a joke because lots of people believe in HIS-STORY will start crying.
From Fung Family of Ko Loo to Pao fa Lien to Chan Wah, across the TRACE able older Wing Chun Kuen lineage all has the snake and crane signature. So what is the probability of the same elements appear again and again in different unrelated WCK lineages is infact the core elements?
When the tool of analysis clearly presented to be public, HIS-STORY fall a part like a land slide isnt it?
The only joke is your WCK education.
Those (chum (sink), fou (rise), tun (swallow), tou (spit)) are the four torso methods found in the SNT, and the basis of WCK body power.
They are a part of all LEGITIMATE WCK lineages, from YKS to YM to Gu Lao to Pan Nam, etc. and as you pointed out yourself, is the basis for all southern fist (and WCK is a southern fist).Quote:
These are from the Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao system's white crane and O-mei influence, not having to do with wing chun. If Yik Kam had finished his WC, he would use the terms like the rest of the lineages do, without the need for borrowing from other CMA.
So a guy who doesn't even know that chum, fou, tun, tao is a basic element of WCK has his own theory on the origins of WCK that doesn't agree with Hendriks. Well, stop the presses. This is earth-shattering. We had all better stop and completely rethink things because some clueless guy doesn't agree.Quote:
As for all this snake slidey nonsense, you can generate power that way for sure, but it's nothing to do with WC. I also don't think white crane is a "mother art" to WCK, could it have been an influence? sure. If Hendrik can point me out where white crane birthed Wong Wa Bo's WC I'd be happy to entertain the idea. Till then, he's just talking an MMA of CMA.
I'm sure this post will get the thread deleted again as Hendrik only wants to hear from people who agree with and suck up to him :rolleyes:
Next we will to go visit the Uniqueness in WCK's application strategy.
See how the snake and crane or the WCK Slide, Snap, bounce power generation support the application strategy.
and how WCK doesnt go for Center Line similar to other Southern TCMA and;
where is this "capturing Center line but not brute force" strategy is from?
We know, Center line concept is White Crane of Fujian's uniqueness.
Let's take a look at Sifu Gary Lam's the WCk old timer clip and see if he goes brute force to do face on center line attack.. or he slide and passed....elegantly handle the incoming force ?
(PS. sifu Gary, thanks and appreciate for your sharing in youtube.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u63OJRXyq68
see if he trying to capture or attack center line in a brute force and face on like some other Namkuen ? or he slide passed....elegantly without fighting force against force?
it just happen that what Sifu Gary does also exist in the Emei 12 Zhuang's application strategy kuit as the following.
勿当冲马劲, Never stop the rushing horse incoming power.
横锁刁牛蹩, Sideway lock the bull's feet.
封闭借来法, Seal off and close the opponent down borrowing the method of incoming attack.
So again, IMHO,
when one fuse the White Crane's Center line concept with the Emei's strategy , one sees that type of signature in the WCK applications. in fact, that is Comes accept goes return....etc.
Check it out for yourself on if you could see the same kind of uniqueness in other Southern TCMA?
You dont have to believe me, check it out for yourself, take a look at how Hung gar does, White Crane san chin attack to the center line does.....etc. See for yourself if that WCK uniqueness is in fact WCK's signature.
If you want to see more on this type of WCK uniqueness, Get sifu Robert Chu's DVD, there you will see it and also the snap, slide, and bounce. Sifu Robert Chu might uses a different terminology but those are there. WCK uniqueness is also across aboard signature. eventhought different WCK sifu has different variation but the signature is always there. Check it out.
The following is Emei 12 Zhuang's application philosophy
勿当冲马劲, Never stop the rushing horse incoming power.
横锁刁牛蹩, Sideway lock the untame bull's feet.
封闭借来法, Seal off and close the opponent down borrowing the method of incoming attack.
我常自在静, I am remain within the silence
大开诱来攻, open up to seduce the incoming attack
利我居主位, This way I have an advantage of being the lead of the situation.
When one fusing this philosophy and the White Crane Center line concept. What do one get? IMHO, comes accept goes return, let go and trust forward, using silence to lead action with always targeted the opponent center line.
If that is not WCK what is WCK? find another TCMA style which do this and see if you could find it.
Furthermore, one now could examine how is the Snap, Slide, bounce power generation support this type of application strategy.
If you notice on Gary's video on how close he is to the opponent once let passed in? Remember what I said about if wrong type of power generation will not get one closely stick with the woodern dummy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u63OJRXyq68
also check out the slide, snap, bounce here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8qo...eature=related
So, in conclusion, IMHO, from my view, there is a reason and signature of Why WCK is WCK. it is not everything is WCK. General Southern TCMA practice can not be WCK. One can practice CLF and doing the WCK woodern dummy set but unless he generate the WCK power and using WCK strategy he is not doing WCK.....etc.
I am done here let you people have the fun.
Where can I find some footage for the "pure" Emei snake style?
Just curious (and thanks)
I won't interrupt your WCK discussion. :)
was yik kam mr. wrong way wong? wong wah bo wing chun already existed long before this junior yik kam little drilling (so-called yik kam slt). why is so hard to see these facts that wong wah bo never mentioned o-mei or white crane, leung yee tei never mentioned o-mie or white crane, leung jan never mentioned o-mie or white crane, chan wah shun never mentioned o-mie or white crane, ip man never mentioned o-mie or white crane, po fa lien never mentioned o-mie or white crane, wsl never mentioned o-mie or white crane, william cheung never mentioned o-mie or white crane? Only yik kam did. why??? because yik kam never finished his wing chun. well it turned out that he could only learn o-mie and white crane in order to make up what he was missing in his wing chun skill, and called it yik kam little drilling. the general public have noticed that yik kam himself never called his art wing chun during wong wah bo time. he knew that wong wah bo was the real wing chun master, and what he learnt was nothing more just some o-mie chi gung exercises. yik kam little drilling should be called yik kam little drilling which should not confuse with wong wah bo wing chun. otherwise, yik kam little drilling would become mr. wrong way wrong wing chun little drilling.
You're not very good at reading are you?
I acknowledge that yes, various WCK motions can be describe in those terms but they are not native to WCK. There has been argument that Yuen Kay San studied some Weng Chun or other elements which may be where he got them. Looking at his brother's lineage in Vietnam which has a hodgepodge of a ton of different CMA I'd be inclined to agree that's the source.
In LEGITIMATE WCK we use "Loi Lau Hoi Sung/Lut sau chi chung" not "Tun/tou."
What a surprise, someone who doesn't even know the fist maxims of Wing Chun agrees with Hendrik. Good thing those presses are already stopped.
If Yik Kam Siu Lein Tao contained more Wing Chun and less O-mei and White Crane, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Then again, Yik Kam never called his system Wing Chun so I guess it's a moot point to discuss it as such.