Xing Yi - 5 Element Fist and Linking

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Originally Posted by EternalSpring

I shall gladly follow this advice!



Oh wow, I can vaguely understand what you mean but I'm sure it'll come clear with more training. How would you view the animal forms in light of the the roads as being methods of delivering mass in 5 different directions?

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i have not put very much time into the animals (tiger and snake are the only ones i still practice) i prefer the 5 fists and the linking form for my personal hsing i practice.

maybe in a broad sense the animals do the same thing. for example the snake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSEV...5&feature=plcp

it transfers mass in a different direction than any of the five fists.

the dragon goes more up and down etc. one of the things i look for in forms or martial arts movements is what makes it different what angle is it attacking or defending? what direction is my mass going?

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Originally Posted by doug maverick

original the five elements were five different, i guess theories on how one should issue power. it was li lou neng who solidified them into technique... xing yi is probably the only martial art, that and im talking about in the five element perspective..looks like boxing. and i feel over the years boxing has influenced the style.

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there are many similarities with hsing i and boxing.

So I've been cross training Xing Yi (and Bagua) now with the same friend for close to a year and I've definitely come to have more of an understanding of the answers to the questions i've asked in the past. At this point, I have a better understanding of the 5 elements and have been training what's called an "Advance-Retreat Linking Form," though I'm not sure if that's the actual "linking form," but when i compare it with forms I see online, there are many similarities and differences so i cant really make a conclusion on that matter.

In addition to this, I've also been occasionally training a movement called "squatting monkey" which has helped me understand a lot about the full body movement in the elements. I think the Xing Yi I'm learning can best be described as a combination of Shanxi Che Xing Yi, Dai Xin Yi, and Xin Yi Dao. Honestly, I'm not sure where exactly the "forms" i know are from out of this group of systems.

For anyone who reads this thread wondering about the same things I mentioned in the OP, here's a list of what I've learned over time:

1. Like many mentioned, the 5 elements are more about different "roads" to use your energy (i actually didn't really understand this when others mentioned it, but i do understand more now and I'm sure there's a lot to go). I'm still a newbie, so the easiest way I could explain it in an example is that the way the body expresses it's energy through something like Pao Chuan from start to finish covers different angles and directions than the other elements. In delivering mass, I realized this could refer to how one delivers his own mass/body as well as taking in, nullifying, and sending back another person's mass.

2. At least as far as the advance-retreat linking form that I learned goes, it's not simply different combinations of elements but rather the concepts of the elements expressed while moving back/forth/diagonally/etc. Also, it's like the movements contain circles that are non stop from the beginning of the form to the end.

All in all, xing yi is a wonderful and effective art, and one that I'm very glad to be cross training in

Xing-Yi is a great internal art.
My main focuses at the moment however are Hua Quan Boixing (traditional Northern long-fist), & Tai Chi Quan routines.
My Tai Chi teacher offers cross-training in Xing Yi Quan, which I have trained for a couple years now. I also took several seminars for it @ a YMAA school, the original school in Jamaica Plains MA.
With all of the other training I do as a main focus, and even various other cross-training, my Xing-Yi has never really been at the fore-front of my focus, although I really like the style and try to get into it. The YMAA school stopped offering seminars for it (they changed location), and my Tai Chi teacher is always visiting China, focusing more and more on her Chinese Medicine clinic as she gets older, etc.
But- anyway- I think- Sant Ti Shi stance is very important. The stance is a real stinker to get the correct postural alignment- weight on the back leg, w/ a forward/ downward force at play w/ everything lined up, and one must be "sung", relaxed (internal training.) sometimes my teacher combines this posture w/ the tai chi position "standing at a post" position- 5 minutes santi shi to one side, shift into post position in the middle, then santi shi to the other side. This seems to work well and mixes it up when training the static posture. then of course 10, 15 min. etc.
I believe the 5 element fists (Pi, Beng, Zuan, Pao, Hung) are foundational also. I was trained to perform them A) to both sides from a standing position (ma bu); B) up and down a line for many reps, and C) w/ a partner- for instance Pi blocks Beng, etc. these of course are just "shallow" interpretations of the application but it stresses proper execution of the technique and muscle memory. Also we worked on striking for Beng Quan (pushing the other person across the room w/ the striking energy).
Also cross-training in several styles you get those "ah-ha" moments. The same techniques are found in Hua Quan, Chen style Tai Chi and Xing Yi, they are just expressed differently, such as Pi Quan used for a joint-lock/ take-down, Hua and Chen styles have similar/ same application just with a stylistic difference expressed. If I didn't cross train I would not be where I am at today (on an actual learning curve).
My Tai Chi teacher trained me in a Xing Yi small linking form and a long linking form. They are both good- the small linking form is very basic, pretty much just the 5 elements, not much more thrown in, linked together. The long linking form introduces a slew of new concepts, different postures/ technique, etc, it definitely has more flavor to it, it feels like a well-rounded out complete kung fu form.
Just thought I would share my experience w/ Xing Yi Quan on this thread.