link ng chan lineage
http://www.wingchunkyn.com/bbs/
Printable View
link ng chan lineage
http://www.wingchunkyn.com/bbs/
Not sure how accurate this is.
1953 – 1954
Yip Man 60 to 61 years old Hong Kong The school was moved to Hoi Tan Street . Students at that time were Wong Shun Leung, Wong Kiu, Wong Chok, Ng Chan and others. Yip Man also taught private lessons at Three Princes Temple on Yui Chow Street , Shamshuipo. Students were Lee Hon and others.
http://www.hkwingchun.com/root/yipman
Bonjour MOSHE,
Je t' ai envoyé un mp.
Franck
hello,
anyone interesting to learn ng chan wing chun in israel can contact me
regards
Here is the man himself, his body structure kind of reminds me of Ho Kam Ming from what little I can remember.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9VK1...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A710p5iess&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf8s2...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAibm...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt3oSndkAnA
六点半棍
我这里是大白天,很热。我的小白电脑,被偷,现在的有点慢。还有,楼上,请保持论坛平等,不要 用称呼。
下面介绍,因而会涉及一些人,如有得罪,请原谅,绝无恶意,纯讨论,并留给新一代继而成传,发展。希望不要 单单为了赚钱而误导下一代,愧对祖先。
1,为什么咏春拳会在云云岭南武术兵器里,只选一长一短的单头棍和双短刀呢?
2,要了解兵器使用特性,原理。因为长度,重量都有严格定义,它们主要涉及力量的表现和场合应用 。
3,兵器使用力量是拳术力量的伸然,它不会超出本身拳术的发力原则。
上述原因,不会误入正宗不正宗之争。我受现代教育,讲求逻辑,追求历史文化关系,分辨传说,调查,例证,说 出不是之处,必有解释。
咏春拳是反清组织用于追杀叛徙的'护法拳'.她属于组织而不是个人.所以,没有拜师,没有师徙关系,只有传 人.不开神位拜祖师,不拜神.只有烧黄纸斩鸡头发毒誓.
棍.刀是五梅选的.棍来自至善.刀来自苗x.
图中是双刀原形,而咏春刀因为运用特性原因,改短很多,但保留了尖,护手,扣反兵器叉.而不是今日所见的开 山刀形.
咏春刀用,剌,斩,圈,拍,扣,反汤[音],捆,耕方式运用,脚法,马走位配合特大力量,而绝不是人们今天视频看到那种空位百出,没有步法,没在力量 的所谓咏春刀.如果这些人说懂,不妨叫他们表演最基本的内外圈刀,剌[标]刀.但我可以负责任讲,没有,因为走马都不懂,何来刀.
讲回棍.岭南拳术,棍有很重耍地位.[北方不是].
下继续.
这有原因,1是材料,北方没有好的硬木.但有白蜡杆.2战争多,枪更具威力,[但分大枪和花枪].岭南一带有来自西南的硬木,藤等,而这些材料,经过桐油处理,非常坚硬不易变形.用于日常,不露眼.3受 俞大猷影响.俞大猷1503-1580,明朝战将,福健人.棍法非常好,少林寺当时也派人跟他习棍.
岭南拳术,棍有三种.单头棍[鼠尾棍]双头棍[齐眉棍]双夹单[两者之间].为什么北方没有这些特点?原因是使棍有威力,跟桥手有直接关系,而枪主要跟身形配合,对桥手要求不高.而 单头棍正是桥手纯熟后的最佳兵器.贡杆原理,经过长时间苦练,配合棍长丈二,无论单对一,或单对多,非常有 利,能保持距离,看清对手.岭南有云,'棍怕老郎'言出有因.经过长期练习,力量使用自如,经验老到,一棍 在手,在如一夫当关.以前舞狮,各人携带兵器,必有两条单头棍压阵尾.
咏春单头棍,单然用拳术力量方法为基础,即桥力,手力,打击力.[千万不要尽信什么力从地起,六合,,,,等一大堆,咏春拳手脚发力独立,最少要求.各位可以试试,坐在椅上 ,一手两指轻轻拿块板,或溥砖,另一手把它打断.如果你发不出力,那就不是咏春拳的基本力.叶问当年在大角 咀一间茶室跟蔡李佛何秋讲数,就是坐着把手肘放在台上,拳头对着何秋说,一动就一拳打死你]
言归正转.单头棍威力特点,1为圈.圈以带有震荡力[搏斗,力为主,招为咐,无力一切不须讲]为主,控棍尖走圈附带震荡有如多点[有如花,所以在起梅花之称]这时,站在棍前的人,会感到眼花.圈在兵器接触时,可圈走对方兵器或带偏方向.这是最难练好的动作和力量. 四十二年,我自已这方面都不满意.
2,点.点的力量也要求很高.首先得点得准,有力.下续
点棍为棍法攻击重点使用之一,打脚,打手,打兵器.打脚用于阻击对手走动.试想每次走位,总是脚先出,如果 每次伸脚,都备棍封,如何走?手执兵器,棍就直接点打手.打兵器,长期练圈点,有震荡力能直接震荡对方拿兵 器的虎口,重者,虎口破裂.点棍包括压,压着对方长兵器.或者对手拿个单刀藤碟,你如何对付?点压.人们表 演单头棍,圈起梅花,点打碗底,更好者,点打枧核.这就足够表现功夫了.
3挑,点挑经常相互使用.挑棍打下巴,打手,打会阴.挑兵器.圈点挑,这是最基本经常练习,什至 终身.
4拦,拦棍带有扫.六点半棍有近180度水平拦棍,直拦,顺拦,高低拦,对方近身后拦等.
5割,割棍一般带着走马转变角度使用,打击对手高低进攻,拦割长短兵器,马步.
6标,标即剌.故名思意.剌向对方.看似简单,实为高难度.直,这个直带劲,劲到棍尖,不摆动.标棍不轻易 用,不随便用,棍出自己露空,非常危险.绝不是视频那些大师,不停地标,更不是象机械操走来走去,空位百出 ,棍尖大摆动,一看就假.
7半点漏棍,下续
漏棍为每家长短棍法必有的技术,也是中国武术特式。持棍面对敌人,这时有人从身后杀到,如何?最快当然是棍 尾漏打。
六点半棍之漏,包括反夺棍,对手迫近,漏棍转手,手脚并用,寸棍必争。棍头当作棍尾用。
整套棍法严密全面[其他门派易然]分别在于力量技巧运用。中国拳术,冷兵器,最高追求。是力的最完美最高威力的结合,是我们先人的最具知慧的 表现,世界独一无二。单头棍和长剑,一静一动,最具代表。
咏春拳选择一棍一刀为兵器,是深经熟滤。刀可快速杀人。棍可全面应对,拳脚上梅花桩。
练习单头棍,圈。棍尖须挂物,以前乡下,圈桶。桶不用绳,用竹勾,挑着竹勾圈到桶转[我还做不到,所以不满意自己]。
直棍,标。以龙形枪作为练习马步,标棍。直棍难在不能摆动,力到棍尖。咏春棍握一臂之长,棍尾不外露,丈二 长,单是拿起己不容易。今时的二米六棍,原是双夹单,并非单头棍。丈二正好运用贡杆原理,发挥力到棍尖。三 种棍,各种用力方式完全不同,马步走位不同,不可混为一谈。
这个就是从双头棍改成的刺刀术,镜头正中的人就动作纯正,枪身合一,其他就不成了。
六,七十年代的中国刺杀术,把伏枪,拦枪,漏枪,刺,挑运用得非常好。所以我总有一短棍放在车上,以备所需 ,因我专门研究过刺杀。
双头棍在岭南拳术中除咏春外,几呼都有,这里不讨论。
双夹单,以蔡李佛的最具代表。
咏春六点半棍练习,有三点chi棍,割,拦,挑,打上,中,下.并且有刀对棍对练.
古劳的,我于1960年代尾,在九龙见过冯生,冯珠,想来他们在的话,也有70多80.
广洲的,没有,
寸劲大师非常假,推人当寸劲,如果人正面站着,在上身以60度角推,很容易往后跌,任何人都可以做寸劲大师 .
黎式也是,打醉汉视频,用的是柔道转身摔.在搏斗中,露背最危险,只有曰本人那样笨才有,如果黎师傅当时走 进对方右边,用脚一打对方脚跟,对方马上坐在地上,又或者用你们的所谓外廉手右手扣对方右手胍门,左手扣他 曲池,这样就完全可控制他,如果他再反抗,一拍他手就脱臼.下次有机会试试.
至于德国那位,你的双手胸前拿棍,樱枪可以,单头棍这样重,标不出.我在法国,相隔不远.
1960年代,九龙公园,郭运平我们相遇过,
又可能得罪人,只是简单回应一下所见.
棍大至如此.有机会可以谈淡拳,椿.
六点半棍
我这里是大白天,很热。我的小白电脑,被偷,现在的有点慢。还有,楼上,请保持论坛平等,不要 用称呼。
下面介绍,因而会涉及一些人,如有得罪,请原谅,绝无恶意,纯讨论,并留给新一代继而成传,发展。希望不要 单单为了赚钱而误导下一代,愧对祖先。
1,为什么咏春拳会在云云岭南武术兵器里,只选一长一短的单头棍和双短刀呢?
2,要了解兵器使用特性,原理。因为长度,重量都有严格定义,它们主要涉及力量的表现和场合应用 。
3,兵器使用力量是拳术力量的伸然,它不会超出本身拳术的发力原则。
上述原因,不会误入正宗不正宗之争。我受现代教育,讲求逻辑,追求历史文化关系,分辨传说,调查,例证,说 出不是之处,必有解释。
咏春拳是反清组织用于追杀叛徙的'护法拳'.她属于组织而不是个人.所以,没有拜师,没有师徙关系,只有传 人.不开神位拜祖师,不拜神.只有烧黄纸斩鸡头发毒誓.
棍.刀是五梅选的.棍来自至善.刀来自苗x.
图中是双刀原形,而咏春刀因为运用特性原因,改短很多,但保留了尖,护手,扣反兵器叉.而不是今日所见的开 山刀形.
咏春刀用,剌,斩,圈,拍,扣,反汤[音],捆,耕方式运用,脚法,马走位配合特大力量,而绝不是人们今天视频看到那种空位百出,没有步法,没在力量 的所谓咏春刀.如果这些人说懂,不妨叫他们表演最基本的内外圈刀,剌[标]刀.但我可以负责任讲,没有,因为走马都不懂,何来刀.
讲回棍.岭南拳术,棍有很重耍地位.[北方不是].
下继续.
这有原因,1是材料,北方没有好的硬木.但有白蜡杆.2战争多,枪更具威力,[但分大枪和花枪].岭南一带有来自西南的硬木,藤等,而这些材料,经过桐油处理,非常坚硬不易变形.用于日常,不露眼.3受 俞大猷影响.俞大猷1503-1580,明朝战将,福健人.棍法非常好,少林寺当时也派人跟他习棍.
岭南拳术,棍有三种.单头棍[鼠尾棍]双头棍[齐眉棍]双夹单[两者之间].为什么北方没有这些特点?原因是使棍有威力,跟桥手有直接关系,而枪主要跟身形配合,对桥手要求不高.而 单头棍正是桥手纯熟后的最佳兵器.贡杆原理,经过长时间苦练,配合棍长丈二,无论单对一,或单对多,非常有 利,能保持距离,看清对手.岭南有云,'棍怕老郎'言出有因.经过长期练习,力量使用自如,经验老到,一棍 在手,在如一夫当关.以前舞狮,各人携带兵器,必有两条单头棍压阵尾.
咏春单头棍,单然用拳术力量方法为基础,即桥力,手力,打击力.[千万不要尽信什么力从地起,六合,,,,等一大堆,咏春拳手脚发力独立,最少要求.各位可以试试,坐在椅上 ,一手两指轻轻拿块板,或溥砖,另一手把它打断.如果你发不出力,那就不是咏春拳的基本力.叶问当年在大角 咀一间茶室跟蔡李佛何秋讲数,就是坐着把手肘放在台上,拳头对着何秋说,一动就一拳打死你]
言归正转.单头棍威力特点,1为圈.圈以带有震荡力[搏斗,力为主,招为咐,无力一切不须讲]为主,控棍尖走圈附带震荡有如多点[有如花,所以在起梅花之称]这时,站在棍前的人,会感到眼花.圈在兵器接触时,可圈走对方兵器或带偏方向.这是最难练好的动作和力量. 四十二年,我自已这方面都不满意.
2,点.点的力量也要求很高.首先得点得准,有力.下续
点棍为棍法攻击重点使用之一,打脚,打手,打兵器.打脚用于阻击对手走动.试想每次走位,总是脚先出,如果 每次伸脚,都备棍封,如何走?手执兵器,棍就直接点打手.打兵器,长期练圈点,有震荡力能直接震荡对方拿兵 器的虎口,重者,虎口破裂.点棍包括压,压着对方长兵器.或者对手拿个单刀藤碟,你如何对付?点压.人们表 演单头棍,圈起梅花,点打碗底,更好者,点打枧核.这就足够表现功夫了.
3挑,点挑经常相互使用.挑棍打下巴,打手,打会阴.挑兵器.圈点挑,这是最基本经常练习,什至 终身.
4拦,拦棍带有扫.六点半棍有近180度水平拦棍,直拦,顺拦,高低拦,对方近身后拦等.
5割,割棍一般带着走马转变角度使用,打击对手高低进攻,拦割长短兵器,马步.
6标,标即剌.故名思意.剌向对方.看似简单,实为高难度.直,这个直带劲,劲到棍尖,不摆动.标棍不轻易 用,不随便用,棍出自己露空,非常危险.绝不是视频那些大师,不停地标,更不是象机械操走来走去,空位百出 ,棍尖大摆动,一看就假.
7半点漏棍,下续
漏棍为每家长短棍法必有的技术,也是中国武术特式。持棍面对敌人,这时有人从身后杀到,如何?最快当然是棍 尾漏打。
六点半棍之漏,包括反夺棍,对手迫近,漏棍转手,手脚并用,寸棍必争。棍头当作棍尾用。
整套棍法严密全面[其他门派易然]分别在于力量技巧运用。中国拳术,冷兵器,最高追求。是力的最完美最高威力的结合,是我们先人的最具知慧的 表现,世界独一无二。单头棍和长剑,一静一动,最具代表。
咏春拳选择一棍一刀为兵器,是深经熟滤。刀可快速杀人。棍可全面应对,拳脚上梅花桩。
练习单头棍,圈。棍尖须挂物,以前乡下,圈桶。桶不用绳,用竹勾,挑着竹勾圈到桶转[我还做不到,所以不满意自己]。
直棍,标。以龙形枪作为练习马步,标棍。直棍难在不能摆动,力到棍尖。咏春棍握一臂之长,棍尾不外露,丈二 长,单是拿起己不容易。今时的二米六棍,原是双夹单,并非单头棍。
丈二正好运用贡杆原理,发挥力到棍尖。三种棍,各种用力方式完全不同,马步走位不同,不可混为 一谈。
这个就是从双头棍改成的刺刀术,镜头正中的人就动作纯正,枪身合一,其他就不成了。
六,七十年代的中国刺杀术,把伏枪,拦枪,漏枪,刺,挑运用得非常好。所以我总有一短棍放在车上,以备所需 ,因我专门研究过刺杀。
双头棍在岭南拳术中除咏春外,几呼都有,这里不讨论。
双夹单,以蔡李佛的最具代表。
咏春六点半棍练习,有三点chi棍,割,拦,挑,打上,中,下.并且有刀对棍对练.
古劳的,我于1960年代尾,在九龙见过冯生,冯珠,想来他们在的话,也有70多80.
广洲的,没有,
寸劲大师非常假,推人当寸劲,如果人正面站着,在上身以60度角推,很容易往后跌,任何人都可以做寸劲大师 .
黎式也是,打醉汉视频,用的是柔道转身摔.在搏斗中,露背最危险,只有曰本人那样笨才有,如果黎师傅当时走 进对方右边,用脚一打对方脚跟,对方马上坐在地上,又或者用你们的所谓外廉手右手扣对方右手胍门,左手扣他 曲池,这样就完全可控制他,如果他再反抗,一拍他手就脱臼.下次有机会试试.
至于德国那位,你的双手胸前拿棍,樱枪可以,单头棍这样重,标不出.我在法国,相隔不远.
1960年代,九龙公园,郭运平我们相遇过,
又可能得罪人,只是简单回应一下所见.
棍大至如此.有机会可以谈淡拳,椿.
Hello,
you have to know that ng chan is perfoming somethimg not too much seriously (like for the videos of yip man)
i have been practising with him ,and that was quite different,
regards
link to a website of ki ping pun
http://www.wingchunkyn.com/bbs/index.php
你怎么样?
是你吗?
鲁
the post is from ki ping pun ,im his student
[言永]春拳为一门非常独特的人体徙手和冷兵器搏斗技术,一直以来,并没有真正公开传授,这基于历史原因和祖训誓言 。吾师伍灿。 生前已有意公开,维受限于誓言,只能授于传人。我不是传人,只是受恩于师,居于馆里,观恩师练习,侧面学到 拳技。今天能公开的尽量公开而不受祖训誓言所限,见证吾师生前心意。并希望各师兄弟体量师父之难处,不是不 教,而是誓言所限。当然,咏春拳的正统精神,技术和起源,应以传人为准,望我各学员日后无须争 议。 小谂头;寻桥,标指,为咏春拳法度,手法,马步身形的基础,从简单到整体有系统地完善。正确与否,应从三套 拳为衡量标准,动作状态以几何原理为主,肌肉收缩受控原理为力量的来源,不存在神秘性,也没有气功之言,呼 吸处在自然中。 小谂头 ,尊定了咏春拳的所有基本手法,法度,达成大脑控制肌肉收缩,身形,马,眼精注视,平衡等等之 练习。 寻桥 ,把搏击中的马走位,几何角度转换,手脚法配合使用基础,特别是对手在数倍于已时的几何角度交错使用的系统 综合练习。 标指, 把前段练习功能集中并全方位使用,利用精确力量,角度,身形,步法攻击对手,实现快速解决对手的目的。记住 梁壁所讲,与人搏击,出手不过三,即每次打斗不须多过三招,解决对手,这是咏春拳基本要求。 木人椿,综合了手法,马步,走位,脚法,目视,身体各部的统一与单独,力量的不同方向使用和加强各动作运动 限制内的实践性练习,使用,利用自己的力量反弹而把木人椿变活来练习,打击力量越大,反弹越大原理而实现力 量增长和有效控制为目的。 梅花步脚法,基础性的 绑脚,侄脚,摊脚,内外拍脚,拦脚,正脚,横脚,切脚,膝击,各种散式连环脚法,生死八脚,死里求生八脚, 连环八脚。必须首先把脚练松才能实现,学过的同学,应知其威力。 梅花桩,基本练习,以七枝为基础,马步基础非常重要,配合梅花步脚法练习。 六点半棍,各同学可同时练习,以圈,点,挑,为基础,一动作一动作练习。 八斩刀,可先练,单双手圈刀,标刀,斩刀作基础。 打胍,穴位。较特殊,不公开。 自梁赞起-----梁壁----叶问------ 郭富-----?-?,? 伍灿------梁厚------梁。。。。。。。以上为各代传人。 自梁赞后,常见的咏春拳为陈华顺咏春拳,叶问公开的也是这部分,不公开是梁壁部分。 咏春拳作为中国文化一部分,在全世界独一无二的中国武术中的一份子,希望各同学珍惜学习,而不 致于她失传。
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Ng chan had everything different comparing to others.
When yip man was doing shi sao with others ,he was just playing.
But by the time he was living with ng chan ,he gave to him a very different structure of movements ,and a very close watching to what he was perfoming in order to catch the very original wing chun.
Plus ,ki ping pun explained to me that shi sao is to be used only at the first stage of the learning of wing chun .
The beginner will be used to certains movements and motions
after that ,very rare. Only once a week at best
but yip man kept others students busy with this , and let them free to practise shi sao for most of their training time
regards
I forgot that you were there !!!
No, you are ignorant because you have a closed mind regardless of language barrier. Please tell me what you do outside of Chi Sao to develop your skill other than sparring? Remember though anytime you touch hands it's Chi Sao in some form. So please enlighten all of us?
first read a translation of the post above in chinese
after i will add on it
On Moshe's posts re Ng Chan.
Mpshe - I deliberately did not critique the first video on Ng Chan. I merely pointed out
to kung fu fighter that his perception of similarities to Ho Kam Ming were not mine.
But now you have gone on to generalizing about others and supposedly that Ip man just deliberately let others go on with chi sao. A presumptuous and amazing claim.
BTW in the Ng Chan chi sao clip- when he came down from bong to tan in a defensive movement he was hand chasing, IMO. You are welcome to a contrary opinion.
joy chaudhuri
Raymond,
where are you located? Hungary?
Alright moshe,
Just wasted 15 minutes of my life to translate that Chinese to find it's complete nonsense. We're all waiting for your excellent explanation now?
I think it's ignorant for others to not have an open mind about Ng Chan system.
Best regards,
Raymond
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Raymond- I am all ears-why not explain some unique aspects of Ng Chan's approach to wing chun.
I don't think that folks so far have been close minded- just differing when comparisons are made to some others's wing chun.
BTW several other people stayed with Ip Man.
joy chaudhuri
The reason the wing chun of ng chan is unique ,is very simple.
Wing chun is not a system with lineage like any other style
there is no family and no reference to any sifu publicly
why
the only purpose for wu mei and wing chun ,was to build a art to kill any kind of opponent ,to serve the cause of the revolt against the mandshous.
So they didnt want anything else ,then to train killers.
Perhaps you can start to understand that this women, wing chun who was nothing else than a killer ,wasnt practising the kind of wing chun that you find anywhere.
After that, just one or two persons was elected to receive this package of technics and had to swear
not to speak ,
not to show
or to make any reference to their background.
Thats the reason why yip man elected only two persons ;
kor fu in china and later ng chan in honk kong
(when somebody feels the need to train a second one many years after ,its because perhaps something is not complete with the first one)
after the elected person had made the ceremony of the oath, his master has finished his mission and will not interfere anymore with his successor
this is why ,even others students of yip man were not even conscious of that.
Yip man ,like leun chan,just taught them various versions of the wing chun of shan wa son
regards
see the post of my sifu to understand why we can speak about that
No problem for me.
The fact is that i just experimented what im reporting
i opened a window ,you take or not,i dont care
regards
FWIW I totally agree with that statement, especially if we're talking of his HK days. I have heard similar comments.
Again, this makes total sense to me.
Dunno about the once a week thing, but this too was talked about with my own Sifu. He is of the understanding that what Ip Man presented to te western world was a beginning, and something that was meant to be added to. Unfortunately this 'update' didn't happen because Ip Man died.
I know that Ip Mans HK students were left to be 'free' and discover their own strengths and weknesses, but this is because he was teaching them individually and there weren't many people he taught that were interested in teaching for him, or the Wing Chun name during his lifetime. That all kinda exploded once he died.
I mean no offence to anyone here either, as I know we all look at what we have as 'special' and some here have an active life teaching for money and its a career choice for them. I'm simply saying that there are still many mysteries about Wing Chun that are unsolved, and to shoot the messenger is just as silly as the messenger being a bit offensive in delivering his message!! :(
I personally would be very interested to hear more about Ng Chan or any direct student of Ip Man for that matter, because there are far too few left alive today and we need to keep a bit more of an open mind. Just saying...
You are confusing "circular" with "soft" and "angular" with "rigid".
I can say firsthand that Tso Shong Tin is not rigid; he is angular. I am not currently judging whether that is better than circular, but merely pointing out there is a distinction you, and perhaps your dad too, are missing.
Spencer, there are no secret oaths that made Ip man only train two people the true "killer" system of wing chun! Even if there was at one point, Ip man didn't adhere to it, I can guarantee you that......stop searching for the mystical in wing chun, please....
there is no mystical things in wing chun
tell me something
if you give your all package of technics to a women ,will she be able to win a real fight against a man ?
the answer is NOOOO at 1000 percent
and this worth for most of the students of yip man ,because he taught them something much more closer to the shan wah son system rather than leung bik
and leung did the same thing at his time
and because what you are practising is not working for women ,it could not be the original system,which one has been conceived by two women and for women used
i hope that some people will be able to be objective about that, and will understand why in this forum ,some are thinking that something is missing in their system , and than need to add technics from others styles ,or to train fighting with gloves etc ...
this is a no sense !!!