Quote:
Originally posted by Merryprankster
Now, I realize that many arts have ways of getting up, but in BJJ, you spend a tremendous amount of time becoming comfortable with the ground and learning to get up without getting stomped in. It's not easy to move with a 300 lbs man on top of you and there is no guarentee that you will be in a position to counter it well. You may just **** him off with what you try. A solid groundfighting base--be it BJJ, Judo, Sambo, or wrestling, gives you a very big leg up when trying to escape from somebody who doesn't want you to. Knowing how to move down there complements anything else you do because you can put yourself in a better position to do it. It's an issue of focus, not superiority.
Secondly, sometimes it's not about "the opponent can't defend his/her doors and let the position opened, the opponent can't deal thowing and counters, and the opponent can't deal with join locks and counters." This is a fallacious argument. The idea that BJJ only works on somebody who is somehow lacking in their training is wrong. The issue is one of how much better is the BJJer at opening the doors than you are at closing them (or vice versa?). Combat is a relationship--it's not a positive one, but it is entirely relative. It doesn't matter how GOOD you are--it only matters that you are better than your opponent.
Thirdly, 'If you ask a pressure point master, he/she would say BJJ is almost suicidal to left all the vital points opened." This again, is fallacious. It's an issue of relativity. If I'm controlling your movement, how do you hit that pressure point? It's really not as easy as it seems. Could it be done--absolutely--but it's MUCH HARDER if you don't know how to move down there and the other guy does. A decent BJJer has you off-balance as much as possible and is constantly attacking your wrists, arms, hands and neck. It's really hard to aim that way--and if you aren't familiar with moving on the ground and what to watch out for it's hard NOT to be offbalance and constantly on the defensive.
Finally, you agreed with a statement that Paul Lin made on perceived limitations of BJJ that I disagree with. I "sigh" because it's a tired argument to me--this is not your fault, it's just same-old, same-old. "BJJ only works one-on-one! BJJ puts you in a dangerous position! BJJ etc..." It's just as bad as the "BJJ beats everything everywhere everytime" comments. The truth is that BJJ teaches you how to move on the ground and drastically increases your chances of attaining a favorable, or escape position, in a fight. The bottom line is that the only thing that is probably worse in a fight than winding up on your back with a 300 lbs guy on top is having to stay there.
BJJ/Judo/Sambo/Wrestling all help you learn how NOT to stay there, rather well.
I know that we'd all prefer to train to stay on our feet. This is the smartest course of action, absolutely, in 99% of the situations you encounter. But in a world of what-if's, it's not a bad idea to have some significant, organized, systematic groundfighting experience under your belt.
I don't practice Tanglang. I'm a BJJ/Judo/Wrestler with some minor boxing experience. I'm also not disparaging Tanglang. At least, I'm pretty sure I didn't anywhere. At the end of the day if you want to figure out how to use your stuff on the ground, you have to go find somebody who really knows groundwork to train your stuff on/with. You can't train it occasionally with somebody who doesn't really know how to do it. It's got to be regular and frequent--THEN you can make your praying mantis (or whatever) work down there.
To say some one else's statement is a fallacious argument is a very serious accuse. You are taking the person's integrity into the account. It is as serious as putting up a chellenge to dule.