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Originally Posted by
ittokaos
Most of (not all) of the people here that are pro MMA, do a little and or are training to do UFC(or pride/k1/etc). They watch it on tv and probably think"Wow, these guys are awesome, I think that they are some of the best fighters out there. Kung fu is fake and doesn't compare. This is how a real man fights!"
no offense, but that's just ignorant.
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On the other side, (most)CMA say/think that Kung fu is the most sophisticated style in the world. No other fighting style compares and if kung fu was brought to the cage, everyone would see a true martial artist fight!
no offense, but that is ignorant as well. I will agree, however, that various kung fu styles may well be the most sophisticated arts in the world.
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This arguement will continue to rage on and on for no real reason. I know that one wants the other to see the error of their ways and "see the light" but it's probably not going to happen. So, just agree to dissagree.
people agreed to disagree years ago. However, debating is fun, hence the reason people debate on forums.
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As for true kung fu to go in the cage, why? For what purpose? Is that what your sifu taught you? To go into a ring and prove that your kung fu is superior? Competition is one thing. A test of skill, fine. But to go into a ring to prove that you are superior? That is not The Way. Kung Fu means hard work. You work hard at your skill and it is frustrating for someone to tell you that your hard work is meaningless. That your time was foolishly spend on foolish goals and endeavors.
In what position are you in to tell someone what The Way is?
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I know, I've been there. Is it worth it? Is it worth soiling the values of your martial art in order to prove yourself?
assuming that you have actually fought, doing so to "prove yourself" is pointless. Who are you trying to prove yourself to?
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You prove yourself everyday when you get up and train when others are relaxing. You prove your skill more by choosing not to fight than to fight for the wrong reasons. Is it worth dying for? If it's not, then it's not worth fighting for, no matter what the reason.
I'm sure cops don't think you are worth dying for. They still go to work everyday. I don't think the people in my club are worth dying for, but I still go bounce people out when they step out of line. it sounds like you picked up this entire post from a movie.
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For the UFC enthusiast, kung fu is what a vast majority of MA originated but there is no one style of martial art that is superior to another. Only the individual is superior.
not true. People are superior - training methods are.
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If a kung fu man went into the octagon and lost, it isn't because the art doesn't work it is on the artist and the artist alone.
losing isn't the point. People lose all the time - someone has to, regardless of what style they train. It's the way they train they means most. training methods rule the day.
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The octagon isn't the end all be all in MA and while that wasn't said in so many words, it was somewhat implied (even though it wasn't intended to do so)when it was compared to CMA. CMA is excellent for fighting. Sport or otherwise.
that was not implied. CMA may be excellent for fighting in some venue somewhere - like san da - but it's lack of a grappling element makes inferior for cage fighting, unless the practitioner cross trains in grappling. On the same token, a bjj guy would probably suck in a san da match. you have to train for the venue you are competing in.
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Look at Bruce Lee. Are you saying that Bruce Lee wasn't a good fighter?
who cares?
1. he is dead
2. he has only had what, one or two documented fights?
3. he is dead
4. since when does having two fights make you a great fighter? He had great attributes, but that does not attest to him being a good fighter.
5. he is dead.
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UFC and other MMA competitions are based on the values that Bruce Lee taught.
I'm sorry, but said values were around WAY before bruce lee's great grandparents were even alive...
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As for the too deadly, some CMA techniques are brutal and can be deadly(especially the pressure point strikes)
tell me you're joking...
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but if kung fu is planing to go into the octagon then that individual will have to make a change to they're training if they are to succeed without those deadly strikes. If you can generate enough force behind your attacks any kung fu man could put up a good fight.
that was a silly statement, but you are on the right track here.
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I think that Bruce Lee said it best. It went something like this(don't quote me): "To see is to be decived, to hear is to be lied to, to feel is the only was to the truth."
it has been felt on numerous occasions.
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However, martial arts, true martial arts were meant to kill. Not for sport. Not to impress. Not for money. Not for glory. Death. When martial arts are used for death they are being used correctly. Self Defense is merely a side effect. Fortunately, through martial arts one can learn that death, glory, money, fame, etc..really don't matter.
1. that's not what they are used for now - they have firearms for that
2. the way they trained then ws completely different than the way you are training now
3. they had an entirely different mindset than you have.
4. what they train was also used for sport - look at the history or muay thai. Or even kung fu - challenge matches were still a sort of sport, as were the collisseum fights in ancient greece. EVERY civilization in recorded histrory has had some indegenous folk wrestling style. there has always been some sportive aspect to fighting.
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The little things in life are what make it worth living. It no longer matters that no one thinks that you are the greatest at your art. You know. You have nothing to prove. There's an old saying: "A shallow bucket makes great splashing sounds but a full bucket is silent. "
a full bucket breaks its silence if the outside force is hard enough.
regardless, sport fighting in most cases is not about proving yourself, but of course, individual reasons will vary.
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Unfortunately, today we are all faced with the ego which make that little things difficult to enjoy and because of that same ego, foolish conflicts arise. What one needs to learn is that the true enemy is onself.
unfortunately, too many non-competitors make the same assumption you made here.
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I know that my words have probably fallen on deaf ears just as I know that my words will be attacked and holes will be poked through my comment by those who must truly enjoy this conflict, for if they didn't they wouldn't continue it.
somtimes people just truly say stupid things too...
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I can only hope that I have helped at least one person today with my words. If I can at least get one person to think, truly think on this, then I will be thankful.
I had to think as I replied, if that helps.