actually, I've called my dog "SD" for a while now - short for Stupid Dog; lately though, sometimes I've been calling him Shaolin Dog...
Printable View
I was talking to my instructor a few weeks ago and we were talking about how things used to be back in the 70's. And there were a few things that were very surprising.
But first alittle background on my instructor and myself. He started in the early 70's at the U of K sin the karate club and I started in 1984. He has continually taught since the late 70's and I have been off and on due to work.
Back in the 70's things were different. Sin The didn't care about money he just loved to teach. Conditioning and sparring were more important than forms. He wanted to weed people out he made classes hard and if you didn't come back, oh well.
For the first roughly 14 years there wasn't alot of forms. You had the current material up through brown belt, and from brown to black you had everything except the cranes, birds, connecting fist, five dir. fist palm, and one of the bo forms. That's 9 forms! And from 1st black to 2nd black there were only 5 forms. Tai chi and pakua were two of them, dont remember the other three.
In my opinion this is when you had people that were very good. Because they were well conditioned and focused on a few forms. It was like this for around 14 years. But then sin the and the senior students wanted to start keeping people longer and that is why they added the 9 forms to brown belt in the early 80's. I think he had some of this material already just waiting for enough people to have the coditionioning to do more advanced stuff like 8 drunken immortals. I really dont think he had much past this though. But I guess he realized to make more money he needed more forms, and now you have SD of today. People trying to learn too much stuff and not being able to use or perform it well.
In my opinion sin the should have stayed with the core material and not added chen or snake pa kua,etc which obviously he didn't learn first hand. Any of the old timers have opinions?
bhodi tree,
i did not start until 1997 so i am not a old timer but i do share the same opinion.
I don't share that opinion, but I share the spirit of it.
I think he should have approached things more scientific.
That's all I want to say about that. Most of what you said is very true, though, historically speaking.
edit - except I cannot verify or deny that line about GMS learning firsthand. I tend to disagree, but I err on the side of optimism.
It is often the case to have to proove yourself prior to being taught something. All you have said is speculation. i have a list comprised in the early 80's that lists many forms taught now such as Hsing Ie the 8 Immortals etc. You hint to the concept that GMT taught more just to make money. So What why shouldnt he make money does your teacher charge for classes ? Non the less the list was out way prior to the stuff being taught just to let you know where the system was headed. Doesnt change the fact that we SD teach it and as far as being
Quote" and now you have SD of today. People trying to learn too much stuff and not being able to use or perform it well.
I can use and perform it well enough and I know many who can. KC
I agree hsing I and 8 drunks were taught in the 80's. But why did he wait so long? In the 70's he didn't care how many students stayed. But when money became an issue and he needed more students he had to give them what they wanted.
Yes my instructor does charge a fee. But that's for classes throughout the week working and correcting mistakes. Sin the teaches 2 or 3 seminars and can make as much as my instructor clears in a year! And sin just runs through the form. No correction. But this is just my experience.
1st everything we write here is speculation.
2. I know GMT thinks highly of what he teaches us.
3. I wont and feel no one would just teach anyone what they know if they havent earned it.
4. Also if you look at the web site he is teaching the Leopards again for those who didnt get to take it that is review for some.
Also those who dont train wont retain so those who do reap the benefits. KC
I agree practice will lead to retention. I know 4 mantis's and 4 black tigers and all the internal stuff plus some other forms. I practice everyday at least an hour and its very difficult to practice everything as much as I think is needed. It would be impossible for me to practice everything up to 5th black, and do it justice. I also practice everything up to blackbelt also.
Since we're speculating why do you think sin the taught the 8 drunks before the blacktigers or hua fist etc when it is now higher ranked material?
Also the fact that he has to get forms from notes and songs indicates to me if he did know them he can't say he's a master of them now.
I personally think master hiang has stayed pretty true to his art by keeping the curriculum pretty much intact, with some additions. And he still teaches classes.
I just worry our art is becoming watered down by having too much.
[QUOTE=bodhi warrior;843657]
Since we're speculating why do you think sin the taught the 8 drunks before the blacktigers or hua fist etc when it is now higher ranked material?
The Hua and Black Tiger's were taught before the Drunken Immortals. The Drunken Immortals followed the post training and only three were taught at the Sports Center.
The only thing that was required was one form for each of the Brown Belt levels. Golden Tiger, sai and broadsword. The additional forms were to increase the time it took to black and that was required after 1984. It also was required to have a white stripe running the length of the belt in the middle if you were a brown belt before the age of 16. You were not considered a brown belt but a Jr brown belt. And if you were able to do your forms for black and passed, you could not wear a black gi until age 16 and were also a Junior Black belt with a white stripe like a skunk, down the middle of the belt.
People also frequently failed belt tests but he didn't require you to pay and test again under black level. He would tell the names of who passed, then he named the ones that didn't and told them to pick up their belts at the door and give it to their instructor. He would tell them why they failed and to tell their instructor why. When their instructor felt that the student corrected where they failed, they could wear the new belt.
It seems as if the health part is being pushed more than it used to be.
In my experience, GMT does teach the form rather quickly in a seminar without correction, but I know that he spends several days teaching that same form to my teachers with training and application. Prior to the form part of the insturction, my teachers usually put us through some of that training as a warm up before GMT starts telling the story or the form and doing the instruction. Then for several weeks after the form we are expected to review the notes and the DVD of the form and our teachers will have review classes where corrections are offered. But that's just my experience.
I worry about our art getting watered down too much too. I think that too many people have too many forms in too short of a period of time, so I understand what you are saying bodhi warrior. But I know KC and know how hard the man trains and he does keep a good handle on all of his material, so whether our art is too watered down by a number of forms depends on the individual and their training ethic. I can't do most of my forms justis, but that's just me and my limitations. Mentally, I can do about 70% of what I've been taught, and the rest of the material I would have to go back to my notes and video to work it up. I can live with that seeing I've been in the art for 19 years now.
It is hard to keep every thing fresh but that is also part of the challenge. I have aschedule it is hard to follow but I try so even if I do 50% of the conditioning stuff and 70% of the MA stuff I am doing OK KC:)