I disagree! The snake power generation can be done at both close and long bridge range. it can be done at the wrist, elbow, shoulder, hips or any other part of the body for that matter including the feet.
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I think you are confused by terminology. You have something that YOU perhaps call "snake power" and think think this is what Hendrik is referring to. It isn't. If you can do it at "long bridge range" then it isn't the method Hendrik is referring to. It requires short bridge and close body.
That is ok with me with your view.
Historical facts are historical facts. So like it some dont.
As for the development of Inch power and joint force,
that is recorded in Chinese history to be checked out for those who is interested.
Inch power means a type of short burst power. Joint force means the force is power from the Joints. This is White Crane not Taiji reeling silk type of whole body stuffs or Hung gar.
As for the theory of origin of WCK proof and others approval...etc, I careless.
knowing the Keys process from White Crane and Emei which has enable me to turn on the power generation of the SLT has served the purpose of my search. What I need is the key to turn on the sport car, I careless if it is German, Italiano, Japanese key. But I do know after if the sport car engine got turn on is it BWM, Luxes, Benz, or Boxter.... That is a reality by itself which no need of proof, because it is what it is.
I present what I know and upto others to take what they like. different people think different way and it is ok with me on how they like to formulate their stuffs.
The ultimate reality one has to face is, can one turn on one's SLT engine and evoke the art of WCK. That is beyond words and proof and theory. Can one do it? That is the bottom line one has to answer for him/herself. IMHO
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We can know what is in the WCK core curriculum by looking to the legit lineages of WCK and seeing what they have in common, from movement/actions, to exercises, to forms, to methods, to kuit, etc. We don't need to accept or adopt or support any historical view.
Yup, agree.
Yeah... I agree. And that's exactly why I think Hendrik is on the WRONG track. He has his blinders on and ignores any WC methodology that doesn't conform to his small take on things.
Seriously... just look at his posts. You got to admit, he is not open to anyone's understanding's except his own.
On top of that... Over and over again, he make's wildly ignorant blanket statements based on his assumptions solely to fuel his ego.
And then when he is met with the same crashing energy he dishes out... He can't take it, and inevitably starts to loose his English skills, goes off into fantasy land, and plays the martyr!
Or he just deletes the thread. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by duende
i think hendrik's got some valid questions here. and i think we should all appreciate him taking the time to do the youtube presentation because he explained his viewpoint very clearly in there and i for one thought it was very informative. he's brought up a lot of concepts that really showed me a different way of looking and thinking about WCK. which is why we're all talking about it here.
Hendrik, are they keys that you mention from Crane and Emei the Inch Joint Power of White Crane, six directional forces, and snake slide worm moves? I know I'm being very general here and there are possibly more but wanted to see if that's what you meant by "keys". One can go and pull all these things together, but the real "trick" is how they are expressed and trained in SLT (by that I also mean SLT,CK,BJ together for those lineages that have three forms).
If we present WCK as in the Ancient time of China, then what I present here is just a drop from the bucket.
In the ancient way, we need to go deep into Tee and Yoong or "body" of the art and application of the art.
"body" of the art, will involve the power generation and the Body-mind conditioning.
Application of the art, will involve the strategy of application, and the use of the Power.
Just to give you and WCners who is interested in the present and future.
For example, the power snap, slide, and bounce are three different type of power. So to generate that the body-mind needs to be condition in a way it could support the three type of power generation.
For the body-mind condition, which is Kung, there is where the Jing , Qi, Shen ....training comes in.... and in this case, since WCK is no longer the Hard style like pre 1800 White Crane of Fujian, WCK take the path of Emei 12 zhuang internal path. and the YJKYM is the signature of this path. Then One get into why is it clamping the Yang, and how clamping the Yang lead to a nature flow of the whole body's 20 medirians......etc.
Another example, the strategy of application will have to deal with the use of different types of JIn such as the Snap, slide, and bounce. So when is Snap needed, When is slide needed, and when is bounce needed. and which jin is use to penetrate and which jin is use to bounce off. how to dissolve each of them.....etc. Furthermore, what type of Momentum (Sheh in mandarin) is evoked and how to break the momentum with what.....etc. how to use and break momentum....
A balance of system things view is needed to really know the art. What we have today is partial compare with those who has it in 1850. Mostly today is only covering the application strategy or technics but missing lots of things.
So, it is a very deep professional instead of what people see Chinese Kung Fu today. In the ancient time, Chinese Martial art is MMA. if one study the Emei 12 Zhuang's documents one will know it covers MMA.
The issue is this type of study is very costly, my ancestors, the Cho family are martial art family for generation who has the Qing Martial art scholar Title of Wu Chi as I was told. They were real pro. I am lucking to be able to see some of the inner family details which they have passed down to my sifu. And no problem to share because it is time to discuss and to define what is WCK. IMHO.
Finally, Yes, one needs to cultivate the Dan Dien's Zhen Qi with YJKYM. Because that is the only way one can go beyond one's born/inherited physical body-mind and deal with aging. Zhen Qi is as real as gold and as true as blood. it is not something to be ignore, and also that is the power to triggle the nature healing. SLT is to promote the flow of Zhen Qi in the 20 medirians while practicing the set beside the martial application.
Until one has the key to turn on all of these, one will not see the beauty of the original face of Miss Yim Wing Chun.
Always my favorite song for those who knows the chinese and music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htcW2...eature=related
Just some thought.
guys nobody ever said they knew it all here, at least from what i've read. i think we're all here to learn and discuss, but in my opinion, there are just certain things that one should know to say you are doing WCK. so when some idea comes up, we got to be honest with ourselves and see if we really understand it. if we understand it, we should be able to explain it, as in why and how. someone should be able to repeat it and get the same results (in principle, not exact shape etc). everybody has an answer but there has to be an agreement on what right is. and in many cases, this has been investigated and defined before by the WCK ancestors, the problem is understanding that depends on how things were passed down, and if the right interpretations were passed down, and that's a problem for all lineages.
I agree. The things that you mention here cannot be developed just by repeating what we know today as SLT/CK/BJ until infinity--unless we are incorporating all the elements described. Doing lop sau all day won't get you there, that was a realization I had a long time ago. We're talking about an internal art here and the trouble is the cost involved, it takes some serious time and effort to dig deep and grasp what's going on. In your opinion, since one can cultivate Zhen Qi from YJKYM, is the YJKYM also a "posture/zhuang/post" besides a stance? These are the keys that I try to keep in mind to do this: Connecting the Du and Ren while utilizing lower lung breathing, not clamping the knees forcefully, with the spine kept straight. Weight sits naturally and feels distributed along the yang edge of the feet. What I'm not so sure about is the hip area, I definitely do not want to force it to be tucked in, but not stick out either, so I'm trying to localize it and feel it support the spine. Where does one place the intention, if used at all?
1, YJKYM is based on Nature post of human. In that post every part of the body could be loosen up.
2, with the body weight more distribute on the Yang side of the legs, the balance and loosen could be naturally achieve. and let the 12 ying and yang medirians flow naturally at every breath. Knee must not be clamp and spine must not be fixed because that the body is alive and changing.
Thus, in the begining of training, the proper way is to stand high stance instead of low stance where one becomes tense. Often one even has to go into laying flat to sense the loose up. Thus, it is not a brute force training but a tuning training where one keep tuning the body until it resonance with the nature.
3, One cannot connect the Ren and Du using lower abdorment breathing by force. That is consider mis practiced.
The true practice is when the mind is quiet, the body is loose, with natural breathing one first open the Ren and store Zhen Qi in the Dan Dien, and then once the Dan Dien's Zhen Qi accumulation is strong, it will be able flow into the Du and up to the top and comes down back to the Dan dien.
However, none of the above could be done via a slight forcefull. one needs a sifu who has experience to coach one with this. Even if just cultivate to open the Ren and capable to Store Zhen Qi into Dan Dien without open up the Du, one will feel the different in health obviously.
So, without Baisi to some one who has that kung fu attainment, one will not be able to attain the state.
4, Kua, hip and feets and spine are not easy to be loosen up and handle. Each of these area has a different key to handle. so it cannot be brute force. also, when one is breathing the spine is also sync with the breathing, so nothing is hold fix but everything is sync and align within a range. that is the key.
5, according to the Yik Kam SLT kuen kuit, after the above is attained when one do the SLT the flow of Qi in the medirians will surface. IE: biu jee will cause the 3 ying hands medirians to flow, lap sao will cause the 3 yang hands medirians to flow. fook sau will cause the 3 ying medirians to flow, wu sau will cause the 3 yang medirians to flow.
It is real? yes. it can be done. Thus, the first five stanza of Yik Kam SLT kuen kuit is very important because without the basic the training to that level cannot taken place. and the attainment of the SLT to that level is impossible. but the most important is a sifu who knows it, otherwise it is impossible.
however, for today's SLT practice, all the above is no longer follow. we are practicing a different type of physical training. and physical training is good enough for today's WCK era and let it be.
maybe it's a good time to introduce myself more. i studied YM lineage wing chun before studying kulo pin sun wing chun under a close student of Jim Roselando. i know Jim writes a bit on the forums too. i consider myself fortunate for having that opportunity and this opportunity to talk to other WCners. i have never met Hendrik but i respect his views and they converge with mine. he's being real generous with his info imo. he obviously is much more experienced than me, but i'm glad he's willing to share his insights. and i'd be interested to hear everyone else's too, that's why we're here. although it's been some years, i consider myself a beginner still and have recently changed my thinking about a lot of things.
From an outsider's (non-WCK) perspective.
The amount of sheer arrogance/ego in this thread is so absolutely ridiculous, even beyond some of the worst CLF flame wars I've seen/read/been-in.
So much that it's hilarious.
I've disagreed/argued/flamed Hendrik in the past multiple times but being very honest this is one time where I believe he is just being honest and people are getting very ummm... insecure and upset? LOL