fine..agree to disagree...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scott R. Brown
Hi tattooedmonk,
I apologize if I have misunderstood your meaning. Remember one of the purposes of conversation is to clear up the misunderstandings we each bring to the conversation so that we may share our ideas more completely. If you perceive that I am misunderstanding your points then please feel free to elaborate on them. It should not be necessary for me to ask. Please consider the possibility that I did not understand your meaning because of the manner in which you communicated them. It is also possible my own personal prejudices redefined your meaning according to my preconceived notions. It is just as likely it was a bit of both. I am happy to read and learn from your insights. I hope you would afford me the same consideration.
In fact, I still don’t agree with you. I do not believe the taiji symbol more correctly symbolizes the Taoist second stage of creation. This is because Yin and Yang are not absolute characteristics. Since Yin is also Yang and Yang is also Yin, it is appropriate to include a bit of Yin within Yang, and a bit of Yang within Yin to help illustrate this point. This addition to the symbol illustrates more completely this symbolic manifestation of duality. It is what the perceiver brings to the phenomenon that defines the phenomenon. So for example, let us consider the state of COMPLETE ONENESS, next it is divided into a duality we call Yin and Yang. Now let us consider these two phenomena as consciousnesses. To Yin, Yang is the Other, to Yang, Yin is the Other. To me, I am me; to yourself, you are me. Which one of us is ME, we both are according to our perspective. So Yin and Yang occur according to a context.
I may have three bowls of water. One bowl contains 40*F water, the second bowl contains 60*F water, the third bowl contains 80*F water. The question is, “Is the second bowl warm or cool water?” The answer depends upon the context, how we contrast it. When contrasted with the 40*F bowl is it warm. When contrasted with the 80*F water it is cool. Warm is Yang, cool is Yin. Is the 60*F bowl Yin or Yang? It is both at the same time! It is not perceived as one or the other until we contrast it with something else and how we contrast it determines its classification.
So the small area of Yin within Yang, and the small area of Yang within Yin, more completely illustrates this comprehensive understanding of their true states of being. They help to remind us that Yin may also be considered Yang and that Yang may also be considered Yin according to differing contexts.
The symbol for tai ji is a spiral .It represents the energy forces going out and coming in from the big bang. ( centripetal and centrifugal forces)
This is where the duality exists...
The liang yi ( the so called tai ji symbol)represents the 4 phases or si xiang( strong force, weak force, light force, heavy force).
There is a difference.
The separation and division of these two forces( yinyang) into greater and lesser aspects( like the dividing of a cell) 1->2->4->8 and so on...
at the point when the first separation of this unitary force( wu ji) is divided( becomes bi polar ....tai ji) is where yinyang first appear( ultimate yin and ultimate yang)
so you see tai ji and yin yang and si xiang exist within the symbol but does not best represent the action of tai ji from a wuji state into yinyang
I completely understand what you are saying .........nice analogy.
well it is obvious.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TaiChiBob
Greetings..
That has been my point, all along.. the symbol reveals itself as "useful and true" to the observer.. not at the direction of remote authority, or of intellectually contrived descriptions.. that is its beauty, it is self-evident..
Be well..
...that you have missed what is being said.
I believe that I have made myself more than clear.....I am not going to continue to argue about this after this post .....
viewing this symbol you can see the advanced stage of yinyang( si xiang or four phases) not tai ji........tai ji is what gets it to this stage........
this is not the beginning stage( transition from wu ji ) which is tai ji to yin yang...
which is my point .....using this symbol makes it confusing to the observer by complicating it...
you said it yourself .......simplicity has it's merits.
it has been real and it has been fun ...but it has not been really fun!!!