For JP and LTN: Maybe "Later" is not better than "Never"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaterthanNever
"For the love of all that is good and holy" that was the demanding part in my eyes."
Well w/out intentionlly bringing theology into this..I suppose that we look at "good and holy" in a different light. Fair enough. And yep..I did ask Gene to lock the thread. But "demand" to have it locked? No sir.
"Regardless a request to lock a thread that has led to both trivial and thoughful exchanges of people with different view points is a bit extreme in my mind."
Ever consider that my request to have the thread halted is because history shows that two camps of opposing views, when put into the same..I would say "room"..but "forum" in this case will suffice..tend to dig in their heels and become even more polarized? And for the 13 pages(perhaps more?) that this as gone on for..has there been any reconciliation of opposites? Does it need to go on for another 13 pages of one side saying "Yeah..it's real" while the other side begs to differ?
"This forum in general, and this thread in particular, has led me to some life long frineds from other styles and helped me define and articulate to myself the art in which I trained for over 20 years."
Well that's always good. And if you feel that you've gotten something valuable to stay with SD for 2 decades..then Bravo!
"Granted not everyone here has displayed an open mind, but many others have and it's been a beneficial dialouge on the whole."
I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I've looked at the statements made by Sin Kwang The and those of the SD organization. And after looking at the historical timeline of Shaolin and with the dates of the diaspora of Su Kong to Indonesia..there is a disparity there. I bear no ill will towards Su Kong, but that doesn't mean that I can't find his claims untenable now does it?
"As far as comparing SD to CMD or OYD or whatever it is calling itself now, other than some grossly unverified histories the comparision ends there."
Do I detect that you are saying that OYD is "grossly unverified" and yet SD is not?
"Some do not. In the end it doesn't matter if you are getting a great workout and learning how to defend yourself."
Brothers and sisters..can I get an AMEN?! However, that still does not mean I need to buy the claims of Sin Kwang The.
"I wish you well in your training. "
Likewise
JP:
If I may, it appears you are valiantly and quite reasonably trying to discuss something rationally with someone who's mind is so made up, Su Kong could come back and tell his story personally with a Power Point presentation, and he still wouldn't believe it. Ancient scrolls could reveal the existence and presence of Su Kong at Shaolin (hyphenated or not) and he'd find a way to call them fakes. Nor would it matter if 10 SD students competed against 10 non-SD students of like experience, and compared results, even if the SD students surpassed the non-SD's in any area.
We know that, true or false, SD has no monopoly on legends that are unverifiable. Consider the following, reciting the history and lineage of Tongbei Quan, "a traditional martial art with a long history:"
"The legend tells of an old an famous martial artist named Yuan Gong who lived during the Spring and Autumn Time around 500 BC. He had white hair and a white beard and always wore white clothes. Having challenged another master to a fight, Yuan lost and was transformed into a white ape, whereupon he fled into the forest. Known as Baiyan Laoren, which means 'old man like a white ape' or 'claimed to be the white ape in human form,' he was believed to be an immortal ape who always taught his skill in secret. Of course this story, not surprisingly, was viewed with widespread skepticism by most people, but it is also a familiar tale far and wide. . . . Although most people preserve this legend, they do not really believe it."
Lu, Shengli, "Combat Techniques of Taiji, Xingyi, and Bagua," published by Yin Cheng Gong Fa Association, and Blue Snake Books, Berkely, CA (2006), p. 103.
Yet, I have no less respect for Tongbei Quan or its students because any of its students tell, retell, or believe that story. Or if one of them told me, "I wasn't there, but this is the legend I was told by my teachers," I'd respect it no less, if in fact it was effective for them, which apparently it is.
Many will call the stories lies, because they can't be proven, although the detractors also can't disprove it. And therefore discredit the product, and the practitioner. As you have more eloquently said, "Who cares? Practice and therefore benefit, or go somewhere else."
The funny part being, it is nothing new: the same point was made in a published letter to the editor in Inside Kung-Fu Magazine if I remember correctly, responding to a published critic of GMT and SD, in 1983 if I'm not mistaken, an issue I still have since I know the author. He wants to "lock the thread"? The "thread" has been going since before there was an Internet.
What's your opinion of this
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Personally I like it.