If Cung Le goes on to have a decent MMA career, what effects eill that have on the CMA and San Da/San Shou community? While I don't think he'll be THE best, I think he'll beat some decent fighters along the way. Will he be the poster boy for CMA?
If Cung Le goes on to have a decent MMA career, what effects eill that have on the CMA and San Da/San Shou community? While I don't think he'll be THE best, I think he'll beat some decent fighters along the way. Will he be the poster boy for CMA?
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Originally Posted by quickjab
If cung Le become successful, then may be more MMA fighters would join his school. then. if his school produce competitive mma fighters consistently, then san da will become a viable replace for muay thai in the standup training regime for mma crowd.
all these are limited by number of quality san-da training camps.
competitiveness of the fighters field by these camps
Nothing. All the MMA guys will still say that kung fu is worthless and back that up by saying that Cung Le has adapted to their fighting style.
well from watching the latest season of the ufc show most of the guys stand up skills are completely awful and junk. cung lee his are really good. maybe he could bring good stand up back into mma.
I wish jackie chan or tony jaa would compete in mma. Jackie chan was so badass and athletic in his early movie days.
The problem is San Shou is not really the same thing as what you train in your traditional kung fu school. It is chinese.... and a martial art...... but the similarities end there.
It's like trying to validate TKD as an effective style by using Korean boxers as the poster boys. Korea produces very good boxers, and it's very likely they have a TKD black belt, but there isn't a direct relation to TKD and their success.
Cung Le has a black belt in BJJ. He could rep BJJ guys.
He has a black belt in TKD. His fighting style resembles TKD with his back kicks, scissors takedowns, and other spinning paraphanailia. Is his success becuase of his TKD training? probably no more than his kung fu training.
sigh. Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee's ghost, Tony Jaa, and even the uber deadly Jean Claude Van Dam would get schooled in MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronim
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingMonk
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Fox
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolinlueb
I suspect all of the above, with no way of determining how much of each.
Fallout, I think we can sometimes give the fighter the benefit of the doubt. Why would Cung Le even bother arguing that his skills are at least more strongly based in san da than TKD? If he says so, who am I to say he's lying? In Jason Delucia's case, it's difficult to see any aiki based techs in his fighting. Maybe there are some aiki principles he applies in his bjj, and he has found some nice pics of Ueshiba doing chokes and a newaza arm bar, but that doesn't mean that Ueshiba taught chokes and arm bars or even included them in aikido after daitoryu. So in some cases you have to take these things with a pinch of salt. But for example, I could easily argue that the aiki atemi I was taught look extremely like my kung fu strikes: they do... but to an outsider if I said I was using aiki to strike, they would say, no, that comes from my kung fu. It's a fine line.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think it will do anything at all for cma. It's no secret that le is a very good wrestler and that he has years of tkd experience. Even though he fights in san shou competitions, he's not a pure cma. I can see a few things happening though:
1. tkd gains even MORE popularity, helping it to retain its crown as the most widely trained and taught MA.
2. you see more mma guys entering san shou competitions and general increased interest in san shou.
3. cung's school gets increased enrollment and several of his guys break into mma.
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Originally Posted by Hieronim
I sincerely hope you're joking (but secretly somehow know you're not).
Since Cung le's first MMA People have come out of the wood workings claiming all kind of nonsense about his style of fighting. The fact is Cung le came out and gave credit to San Da for his succes. He didn't credit tae kwon do, jiu jitsu or his vast wrestling back round.
We have to remember That sa da (san shou) is very much Chinese and very much part of kung fu. Just because you put on a pair of boxing gloves on and step into the ring, doesn't mean that you are now a kick boxer. All the tech including the throwing and fighting strategy is very much a part of kung fu.
The trowing tech are from sit gat (swai jow). As far as the kicking tech. well it's not tae kwon do. Standard kicks are as follows, Dim Toi, Chun sam toi, chai toi,peck toi, fu mei toi, Bai moon toi. These are kicks that are indiginus to kung fu.
The only thing that is taken away from kung fu is the fact that the practitionar has to adjust his fighting due to the boxing gloves he has on. This keeps him from using his fingers. This is what makes this a sport, the limited use of your arsenal, just like Judo or boxing.
Keep in mind that when it comes to chinese grappling tech we don't rely as much on the use of the gi like in jiu jitsu and judo. As far as punching tech. you are now mixing boxing punches and traditional kung fu tech. like saw chois chop chois, cup chois, been chois. None of these punches are allowd when using Roxbery rules.
We are quick to give credit to tae kwon do when some one has clean effective kicks. The problem with the ufc is taht most of the fighters are excelent athletes but when it comes to fighting some guys are either graplers or stand up fighters. Some are just jack of all trades masters of none.
Now you get a guy like Cung who has great kicking ability and punching abilities, but he can also snatch an apponent out of the air and slam him into su flex. Forget about going to the ground now you have to worry about a San Da fighter that is waring fingerless 6 oz. loves that is used to knocking people ou with 16 oz gloves.
Stop trying to make sense of it it's kung fu.
greencloud.net
Green Cloud,
Ok. San Da is CMA. I don't think anybody will disagree with you.
Cung Le SHOULD credit San Da for his success - it's an integrated venue that taught him to punch/kick/throw and deal with the same coming at him all at once.
But to say that his TKD and strong wrestling background didn't inform his fighting is a bit disingenuous.
You say for instance, that his throwing is from sit gat. Yet, I watch his throws and I have seen every one of them, excepting the spinning back kick takedown thing, in wrestling matches, and Judo has Kani Basami, which is quite similar in execution to Cung Le's signature takedown. I'm going to bet a couple of things about Cung Le:
1. Most of his takedowns are wrestling derived skill sets
2. He doesn't care WHERE the skill set comes from. He'll use it if it works for him because his focus is on winning, not talking about/repping a "style."
2a. I've noticed that people who have fighting experience tend not to distinguish between stuff "I got that from this, and this from that, and the other from over there...." They look at it more as "all the same ****."
IMO, this is because good principles transcend style....
Like 7*, I think this isn't going to do anything for the CMA community. If Cung Le had come from a straight CMA background, it might have. But, since Cung Le is a well known wrestling and TKD stud, along with his CMA experience, who competes in a CMA format/art, what Cung Le really is is.....
a mixed martial artist who chooses to compete in San Da. ;)
But, I think it will definitely get people to start looking at San Da. Incidentally, I can't think of any MMA/BJJ type off the top of my head who doesn't respect San Da fighters. And I would argue that the ones that don't are stupid and might change their tune substantially if they got in the ring with them.
Personally, I think San Da + BJJ is going to be the wave of the MMA future.
So does Cung Lee go around telling people he is a CMA practitioner, or does the CMA community just project that image on him?
Ok what ever you guy say:rolleyes: