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Is this stuff like "jow"? Or more like Tiger balm??
I see it on the market and always thought it was some type of back rub!!
What is it used for? And how meny here use it at all?
Thanks
Skard
Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.
Over the counter Jow. Used to reduce swelling and stimulate healing on bruised areas. I actualy like Wu yang bandages better.
"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson
Jock itch... Seriously.
Turiyan
"(Manu) From himself (atmanah) he also drew forth the mind-and-heart, which is both real and unreal, likewise from the mind (comes) egoism [higher mind], which possesses the function of self-consciousness (and is) lordly"
--C1V14 Laws of Manu
Turiyan, you are a naughty boy, that is terrible advice.
THere is too much camphor in it for my liking, it isn't your standard Jow, it is more like muscle stress liniment. Although the name would denote that it is for Bone bruises, it is my experience that it is not to strong and you would need to apply it a lot.
It is one of the better over the counter jows though, all things considered.
You can get better though in one of the shops on Spadina/Dundas Skar or even Chinatown in Markham (pacific mall) has lots of apothecarys, or, perhaps your teacher makes his own and would be willing to let you have some?
peace
Kung Lek
Martial Arts Links
****......never let that stuff, or any ointment, get near your "boys". My friend had a groin pull once...sounded like he had his nuts in a C-clamp.
Dont let it get near any mucous membranes either (mouth, eyes, genitals, etc...) I had a bruise on my cheek one time and the dit da jow stung like hell, made my eye all irritated.
You put the jow on your face? strange. how does a cheek bruise? Sorry, I guess I've never seen that before :)
Iron
it is also good for tendons and sprains but do not use for jock itch!!!!!! why would people joke about that, some people take advice literally on this board and that would cause great pain that does not wash off well .......
http://www.kungfuUSA.net
Actually Earth Dragon, I would be shocked if anyone took any advice from this board.
With the intrusion of idiots, the clear lack of knowledge demonstrated by many and what not, i would think that one would have to be a bonafide fool to take 90% of this seriously.
This board is only as good as what is put into it and there are very few members here who take martial arts seriously. The rest like to come here as a meeting place, to insult each other, to post inane garbage, make lame challenges and do a bunch of navel gazing while smack talking.
Which is in my opinion a **** shame. This place could have been and still has the potential to be a wonderful resource where real ideas and thoughts can be exchanged and people can be enlightened to the arts and styles of others.
Kung fu QiGong magazine is providing us the opportunity to use this place as a viable resource and instead the place becomes a rope and we all hang ourselves with it in our ridiculous actions and statements.
People with many years experience are belittled by children with poor manners.
People who challenge over the internet are just stupid to begin with as this is an empty action that has no value.
It really is up to the membership here to make this place worthwhile, to stop responding in anger to those who are clearly seeking to agitate. And to start really thinking about what they post before they post it.
Let's try not to have this place become a breeding ground for the unconditioned wildness of kiddyland antics that so many other places are.
THere could be value here, but I personally will share nothing with those who act the way many do here. It wastes my time. Which is likely what I am doing now. But I feel like saying it this morning :)
peace
Kung Lek
Martial Arts Links
Thanks guys, and NO i would not put it on the "babies" :D Tryian you joker.
Kung- I got some great jow from a small chinese herb store at Midland and Finch, but i was looking for something more for every day aches and pains.
I guess this would work.
Btw- I used to date a chinese girl who gave me something when i was sick, she told me drinking it would make you better, thinking back, i think it was, zheng gu shui i was drinking, looks the same smells the same, anyways, what doesn't kill you only make you stronger.
(or even more sick)
Thanks
Skard
Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.
FYI.
My teacher (an OMD) has his own herbal pharmacy.
He sells a raw herbal jow formula. Which a teacher would mix with 1.75l of alcohol. who would then bottle it and sell it to his students. The herbs are pretty cheap, $20 for the formula. email me if anyone is interested.
taomonkey@yahoo.com
I agree with you 110% however some people have taken my opinon on things and then it paid off in a good way for them.Like the guy I meet on here who had very bad bruises so I sent him some of my jow whiched helped him out greatly, so there is babes in the woods out here looking for genuine help who will take advice from people who they think have a honest opinon to share. It is unfortunate to have so many bad apples spoil this wonderful board as you and I know from our past expericene they can be dealt with accordingly. If someone asks I will give them my honest answer but I would hate to have someone ask the wrong person who gives harmful advice. That would be like the sick person who puts pins in hallowween candy to harm people and then ruin tricker treating for everyone so maybe we can have some more maturity on this board and grow up a little but I doubt it!
skarboro mantis DO NOT drink zheng gu shui it is a topical medicine only!it contains some root extracts that are toxic when ingested so do not drink it! many herbs in chinese medicine smell the same, thats becuse most are made from plants which have simular properties, however when they are combined the can change properties and beome poisonous when used incorrectly. Your chinese girlfreind probably gave you a ginseing, safol oil,liquorice and astrallegus root drink that helps with enfluenza and the common cold called
(gancao chaung xiong) I have used it before and although smells simular it is in no way the same as shui.
http://www.kungfuUSA.net
Earth Dragon, I did say "90%" :D
Skarbro, there are internal forms of Jow.
Tieh Tah Yao Gin comes to mind. These need to be takenon the advice of a qualified TCM physician and not on the advice of anyone else.
Unless of course, if you sifu is also a healer, in which case the use of them may be necessary.
Generally, internal jows contain some pretty vile tasting stuff but they are excellent for things such as bruised or affected organs that have suffered strikes. As well for deeper tissue damage taht cannot be fully effected by topical substances.
There are also a great variety fo teas and deconcoction herbal mixtures that have much efficacy and effectiveness.
Just be as aware as possible before putting anything into yourself. If this means sourcing a few instances then do the footwork. Better a little pain for a few days than extended damage for the duration of your days.
These days, it is quite trendy for people to recommend things that may have worked for them. But the deal with TCM is counters that thinkingfrom the start. Everyone is different in habits and everyone is therefore different in dosages and needs as far as herbal remedy is concerned. Any TCM prac worth their salt will develop a very close relationship with you and ask you a gagillion questions before they give you a single thing.
Be honest in your replies to the Dr. If you have bad habits tell the Dr. these habits may counter the prescription in many incidences.
Western medicine, at least preventitive western medicine lacks this aspect. It is thought that the efficacy of western drugs is the same from one person to the next and in a few cases that is true, but in many cases it is not.
Anyway, be careful with any internally taken herbs, do your homework to the nth possible degree and avoid just taking someones word for it no matter how much paper hangs on the walls.
Acute is one thing, Chronic is another.
peace
Kung Lek
Martial Arts Links
E.D.-I know NOT to drink it, think im crazy? But
i swear it was zheng gu shui i was drinking, not some ginseing drink, i remember by the bottle.
Anyways guys thanks for the info.
Skard
Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.
the company that makes zheng gu shuie also makes other formulas, but the labels look similar-same red and white label on the little brown bottle. As for broken bones, the formula is used only after setting the bone, and most tiet-da yee combine it with another formula, depending on the type and severity of the injury. Usually it's a process: set the bone-ouch, reduce swelling, nurture the bone and tendons,and restore movement-more ouch.
then, if you're like me...re-break the bone, again and again, until you take up a safer hobby, like alligator wrestling
I would like to know what you all use for bone soreness after conditioning. I would prefer to get something over the counter made by a reputable company, my sifu recommended Zheng Gu Shui, but I was wondering if anyone recommends something better.
Thanks for any help,
take care,
Mantis
I was told to be careful if your girl is preganant -- it can cause a miscarriage.
I don;t know if this is true or not, but better safe than sorry
EvolutionFist - I have heard the same thing from a reliable source. Something to do with the blood flow I think?
Gee. I guess I'm in the minority. I think the contributions of most of the people on here are useful in some way or other, and I think it's a decent place to toss out ideas and see what happens.
I don't think most of the people here aren't serious at all. I think that a good deal of the people are at least fairly serious. In fact, I think it's a pretty good forum with some good people who have some good ideas. Sure, it's not all Kung Fu, but that doesn't seem to be the point of the general forum anyhow.
I used to rub it on my shins after conditioning and sparring a few years back. I thought that it worked rather well, it went deeper than any of the other Chinese liniments I have tried.
Its kinda late in the thread, but I hadn't paid it any attention...
In a masturbatory frenzy in my teenage years I punched the clown with a fist full o'Ben Gay. It was fine right up until the end (3 min or so :) ) and then I began to receive mixed messages. :eek:
Took forever to wear off. :D
:o
This question is for the Herbalists out there.
Is this stuff, Zheng Gu Shui, the same as Dit Da Jow?
Thanks,
Steve
Zheng Gu Sui is not very strong.
Its a kind of liniment but its more a wash with lots of cinnamon and heating herbs to help rid swelling and help pain.
Its very weak compared to homemade dit da jow and i would not recommend it unless that is the only thing you have access to.
Zheng Gu Shui transliterates to "correct bone water" - it is a traditional bonesetter's liniment. While not as strong as Dit Da Jow, it is effective for acute injuries to joints and bony areas. It stops pain effectively (like within moments after applying).
I wouldn't be so quick to discount the Zheng Gu Shui...
It's not as great for treating old injuries or deep bruises, etc. For that, you definitely would benefit from a proper jow.
peace
herb ox
Well you know that's not all I have access to. I was interested in it because of the price. Although, I thought it was just a "watered down" jow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Dugas
Herb Ox, that's a very interesting post. It seems as though you're saying that it's basically something to use on the night some soreness occurs?? This way it doesn't turn into a bruise or injured joint.
Thanks for the replies,
Steve
It really boils down to personal preference. The ingredients include herbs to invigorate blood and promote healing of bone. It's actually a cooling formula given the amount of camphor and menthol used. The king herbs, san qi and hu zhang are warm and cold, respectively. The Gui Zhi, which is spicy and warm is meant to harmonize the formula and open the collaterals of the meridians.
I tend to use ZGS right after a gnarly kick to the shin or if I bang my elbow or sprain my wrist... that kind of stuff.... when it feels like my bone got bruised :rolleyes:
The cooling nature of the liniment takes away the hot feeling of these acute injuries and really does stop pain fast. Best part is, it's fairly readily available and usually pretty inexpensive. Good criteria for the 'people's medicine'.
best regards
herb ox
My opinion, it really boils down to semantics. If a liniment is produced with alcohol, and it used to heal injury, then there is justification to call it "dit da jow". To be honest, I dont think its too important what we call it...Some of the MMA gyms I sell to prefer to call the liniments bruise juice, and I kinda like that better! =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hamp
My experience with Camphor is that its actually very warming. And while I hear many people say Camphor is cooling, a quick look in a number of Materia Medicas claim it to be "hot", not just warm.Quote:
Originally Posted by herb ox
Gui Zhi, while important, is fairly mild in action.
Herb Ox, I tend to agree with you, there is a time and a place for everything, including ZGS. Its not a strong liniment by any stretch, but its not really meant to be--You would treat a headache with Morphine.
Isnt ZGS produced with isopropyl alcohol? That is not ok with me.
I would tend to use it more for Damp-Cold Bi and for old bone bruises that are slow to heal.
Best,
Steve
Greetings,
When Zheng Gu Shui first came out, it was a very traditional concoction that had well over 20 different ingredients in it. It was so strong (and I mean STRONG) that people also used it for iron palm practice.
I used it to treat a wrist injury and it worked well.
I have noticed that when I comes to patent medicines, it is best to buy the first couple of batches. The product cheapens in quality soon therafter. Zheng Gu Shui is no where near to what it used to be.
mickey
I use ZGS usually just for sore muscles on day after type stuff, in a nice hot shower.
I stick to home made stuff for injuries.
The old bottles used to have warning lables saying,"Highly volitile, handle with care."
I still have a scar from when I used it for cracked ribs. When I peeled a soaked bandage off my side, my skin came with it. Strong stuff. This is going back over 25 yrs ago. Now, it's more of a hot linement.
I also remember glass bottles with stoppers instead of thin platic ones with crappy little plastic screw on caps...Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTigers