I have read that there is no safe way to condition your knuckles. Even knuckle push-ups are bad.
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I have read that there is no safe way to condition your knuckles. Even knuckle push-ups are bad.
How can knuckle push-ups be bad?
I used to punch walls all the time, and it REALLY hurt, but it toned them pretty well. And don't you think kicking a man in the face is bad for him? No pain no gain!
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Animenigma [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
read the post on the chinese wall bag.
if you get one of these & are shown how to use it correctly by a good wing chun instructor, your knuckle will slowly become conditioned as a bi-product of using it.(although this isn't the its main function you will be happy with the results)
vts
Hey Animenenigma, Umm I think the no pain no gain dosent uply to this topic, as it could be seroiusly damaging. What I liked when I started Wing Chun was that there wasnt any stupid and painful ways to toughen your body up or anything like that, it was always "avoid the force" And that maily applied to everything.
I see my seniours punch the wall sometimes but thats becuase they have already condition there "punch" (not nuckles), to hit properly!
I would just get chinese wall bag and work through your own grains over time!
Cya!
i had to do those knuckle push ups in tae kwon do and i think its a f@cking stupid thing to do
The one inch punch that I was taught by a 3rd Dan in Jujitsu was more body mechanices oriented. I don't know what you are learning that requires hand conditioning. We practiced on each other with very thick phone books over our chest to pad the blow. It was profound the amount of power if done right. Large men moved back a step with a one to three inch punch. It sounds like you are learning a different technique.
Hello All,
I have heard differing views on knuckle conditioning. I think that in the past the excessive conditioning was needed but not in todays society. I mean if you really think about it, how many fights are you going to get in in your life? What is the likelhood of needing to have superbly conditioned knuckles in order to defend yourself? It is all well and good to condition oneself but not to extremes. FWIW, I see no problem with knuckle push-ups but I do not like them myself [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]. I think that proper alignment is more important than the developing of callusses or other such extreme methods of conditioning.
I think that the proper use of the wall-bag owuld be sufficient for most of us today. Again, I would stress proper alignment and learning to use body structure to supplement the punch. In a real fight I prefer to utilize palms as they seem to offer a different type of power and cause nice results.
I would refer you to the book on the 1 and 3 inch punch put out by James Demile. In it he covers most of the mechianics of the 1 and 3 inch punch.
Peace,
Dave
Bruce Lee at one point "toughened" his knuckles so there were these huge callouses on them. You can see these in photos during that period. But, he later deemed that unnecessary for whatever reason and afterwards just left them "normal."
I got Bursitis THREE TIMES training my knuckles by punching a 3 inch thick hard wood board. It hurt like hell, and I stopped because my parents made me.
Btw. Let me please clear the confusion. Knuckle Pushups DO NOT MAKE YOUR KNUCKLES HUGE. Putting stress on your knuckles does encourage bone growth, but only in DENSITY.
I've put my hands in burning sink water 3 times before. Conditions the skin ever so slightly, but mostly just kills the nerves in your skin.
What I do to train knuckles nowadays:
I get high-density styrofoam and attach it to a concrete wall. I use it like a makiwara. It conditions your knuckles really well.
Knuckle Pushups: Painful at first, but it also thickens the skin and conditions the knuckles.
Heavy Bag: Get a good punching bag between 50 - 70 pounds. My 50 pound one costed 59.95. Good skin conditioning, targeting.
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Underaged Drunken Monkey
I got Bursitis THREE TIMES training my knuckles by punching a 3 inch thick hard wood board. It hurt like hell, and I stopped because my parents made me.
Btw. Let me please clear the confusion. Knuckle Pushups DO NOT MAKE YOUR KNUCKLES HUGE. Putting stress on your knuckles does encourage bone growth, but only in DENSITY.
I've put my hands in burning sink water 3 times before. Conditions the skin ever so slightly, but mostly just kills the nerves in your skin.
What I do to train knuckles nowadays:
I get high-density styrofoam and attach it to a concrete wall. I use it like a makiwara. It conditions your knuckles really well.
Knuckle Pushups: Painful at first, but it also thickens the skin and conditions the knuckles. Do knuckle pushups ON A THIN CARPET. NEVER EVER EVER EVER on a wood floor or concrete floor. This can injure you on the long run, like give you arthiritis. Not a pretty thing.
Please please please please never do your knuckle pushups without even a bit of padding. Very bad.
Heavy Bag: Get a good punching bag between 50 - 70 pounds. My 50 pound one costed 59.95. Good skin conditioning, targeting.
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Underaged Drunken Monkey
Hi Guys
Sorry to get off the point, but at what stage of your training should one practise ''the one inch punch''?
What has knucle conditioning got to do with it?
Respect,
Hing
Me, I just hit the wall bag, which is only full of sand. And I don't really focus on hitting it as hard as I can anyway. Bone packing, or the calcifiaction and density increase in the bones of the hands, occurs from the bones being jarred. You really don't have to jar them that hard, you just have to jar alot, over time. After I had been hitting the wall bag regularly, over the course of about a year, I noticed that although my hands didn't really look or feel any different, I realized I could pound on a concrete floor pretty darn hard without it really bothering my hands, or breaking the bones. Although I'm sure I could have hit hard enough to break the bones, I was amazed at how tough my punching had actually become. So honestly, I don't happen to feel that pounding on bags of rocks, or lead shot, or any other sort of hand torture is really necessary to develop these qualities. It just takes constant training, over a period of time. But that's just my take on things....
Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]
Sandman, Do you apply iron palm liniment on your knuckles before and after you do this training? Can you wear gloves while doing this training and still improve your punching power?
Phantom:
No, I don't use iron palm linemint either before or after. I mean, I'm not hitting anything hard enough to hurt my hand. When I first got started, my sifu told me not to worry about hitting it hard, just to get used to hitting it at all, using the correct bone alignment and structure. Over time, I was able to up the amount of force I would place into each hit. I can't stress it enough, you have to have proper bone alignment and structure or you'll mess up your hand. But really, hitting the bag hard isn't the most important part, instead just hit the bag correctly. With time, your bones will strengthen. BTW, this is the same phenomenon that is seen with serious long distance runners, they get an immense increase in the strength of the bones in their legs from all the constant jarring motions of jogging. Are they attempting to beat the crap out of the ground with their feet? No. It's just that the constant, repetative thudding of foot on pavement is enough to trigger bone density increases. Also, I'd highly recommend against using gloves, as I personally feel they are more of a detriment than a help(for a variety of reasons). If you just get a wallbag, put sand in it, and practice hitting it correctly, and not trying to smash your hand into it, then over time you can reap the benefits of this training method. But again, that's just my opinion.
Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]
Sandman, I am not trying to troll here, but what exactly is wrong with wearing gloves? i have read that you should both wrap your hands as well as wear gloves when you are hitting any kind of bag, although I have read that wrapping them too tight can damage your bones and wrists.
Ok, first off, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about a wall bag, ususally square, that is full of sand and hangs on a wall. Not a heavy bag, speed bag, or any other sort of bag that moves around. Ok, now that we're clear on that....
1) When you fight in a street situation, you won't be wearing gloves. Part of the reason I hit the bag, is to become comfortable hitting things. If I put on gloves/tape my hands, it will feel really different when my hand actually goes to smack something.
2) DON'T HIT THE BAG HARD ENOUGH TO HURT YOURSELF. Bag gloves exist to prevent injury to the hands, if you aren't doing anything to injure yourself, why wear them? When you hit heavy bags, speed bags, etc. there is a good chance is will move around (as it is designed to do), and you can hit it off center or scrape your knuckles on the canvas, hurting your hands. The wall bag doesn't really move around much.
3) You might hurt yourself without gloves "shadowboxing" on the wall bag, but that's NOT what it's for. At least, that's not what I use it for. When I work on my punching, I'm standing in front of a wall bag chain punching it, or sometimes practicing other strikes. But for the most part, it's just one straight on punch after another, flat part of my fist to flat surface of the bag. Since I'm not hitting it from weird angles, or anything like that, gloves just aren't neccessary, especially since my goal is not to pound it until my fists bleed.
Like I said before, the way I was taught, you started off just putting your fists out there and getting used to making contact in a slow relaxed fashion. As time passed, I'd ramp up how hard/fast I'd hit the thing. The level of conditioning recieved from this training is good, but it's slow, it takes time and patience. If you're looking for a "quick fix", this isn't it, and I can't help you. Anyway, this is just how I do things, I know opinions on this vary alot. Hope this was helpfull!
Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]
sandman - so, what exactly is the "proper" way to punch and the proper bone alignment?
i disagree withafew things,first i would say sandman is right,alignment is most important.you can break your haND if you punch someone in the head n the wrong angle,so you can do the same with abag. i thnk ou should use linament,this stops blood stanation.i have been treated by many accupuncturist from china,they all agree. also,a tai chi high level dayan chi gung friend of mine,told me of a lot of guys who do iron palm,are hurting themselves,there complexion is real red,showing too much heat in the body,can lead to illness. i used to practicem 3 inch as follows..get an old coffee can,fill it with rocks,and place an indoor outdoor carpet arount it tightly. sit it on a table,and practice your punch,trying to shoot the can across the table. when ou can do it,fill it with heavier rocks. i have ony me one guy who mpressed me with iron anything. it was a chinese guy raised in a temple,he had the top knucle up to fingertip on his index and middle finger,like steel. he would do pushups wit his legs up in the air on a table,an do one handed pushups on those two fingers only.he wasamazing. he did a style called meinzong,and hsng yi. i met him at an herbshop in chinatown.he said those two fingers were for self defense. he would poke you anywhere,and you wouldhurt bad.
hey guys
sorry to hear your problems about one inch punching,but i think you are all missing the point.hing asked a valid question and no-one answerd!sorry,but do you lot know how these are done or practised.
Hi Cloud 1,
Did you read my post? Aside from giving step by step instructions what more do you want here. There has been discussion of using bags and whether to wear gloves or not. The issue of taping ones hands has been mentioned. If you have to something to offer than please share with the rest of us [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Peace,
Dave
Originx:
What's the correct way to punch? Boy, there are even more opinions on this then there are on how to do hand conditioning.....if I get time later, I'll take some digital pics of my fist, so you can see what it looks like, i don't have time this morning to write out a lengthy description of fist composition.
Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]
Wing Chun Forum Moderator.
Student-www.authentickungfu.com
Hi Sihing 73,
I read your post and agree.But there seems to be a question on my mind. Can the one inch punch be done if your off the ground. You also quote that you can learn this kind of punching from a book[ James Demile ] Is this how you have learnt. If so how do YOU know you are doing it correctly?
Hing- You practise "One Inch Strikes" in the first form??
Hi Cloud 1,
To answer your question I do not believe that the 1 inch punch can be done while off of the ground. I believe that you need to use the ground and your structure/root in order to generate power properly. Much of the power of the inch punch comes from the proper snap of the wrist as well as a slight rotation of the hips and dropping of the knee. Still, you need a base from which to generate power and your stance will do that.
As to having learned from a book; I was fortunate enough to learn from my Sifu. I refer to the book by James Demile as a good reference because I think he breaks things down nicely. He also has a chapter, I think, on using a can of some sort to prepare the knuckles for striking which was kind of what this post started with. In any event, I think his method is different than the one I use but probably just as valid.
There are more than one way to generate an inch punch. All it is is an expression of jing and so there are more than one path to the same end. Some may be a little quicker than other [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Hope this makes things a little clearer, at least concerning me.
Peace,
Dave
Dave,
Where you in Germany when Michael Fries knocked out a wrestler,while falling backwards?
WT
The conditioning you need according to the "one and three inch punch" book is:
Wrist, done by rolling a weight up and down a stick with the arms straight out.
Isometrics: Forearms pressing underneadth a bar and leaning back and bringing yourself back forward.
And some other exercises. One is trapping a piece of paper against a wall with your fist as a form of timing exercise.
The books pretty good, but small. Easy to miss at book stores. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] But its not like most people could do the training enough to consider it a "martial art". It can be if you can deliver it.
It doesnt have to travel far, and is best used, IMO, in a semi-clinch. Even better if you can charge in, get your body moving, POW.
But that foorwork and the hopping/stomp combo is a bit tricky. Perhaps some of the baji guys could elaborate more on thsoe basics?
I dont recommend knuckle training for obvious reasons (see pictures). I HATE cold weather. Makes my joints swell even more.
I hope these pictures dont come out too big.
http://ordos.terrashare.com//pics/self/Image30.jpg
http://ordos.terrashare.com//pics/self/Image31.jpg
http://ordos.terrashare.com//pics/self/Image34.jpg
you should be training your short range power in siu lim tao. there is no reason to pratice the punch as it is the princible of short range power that allows you to punch hard in a short distance. its just practice.
i would not stand there and atempt a 1" punch on my opponent as i could have hit him properly. its more for when you are stuck close to your opponents body and you can strike with the same force. its used to much for stage demos and everyone thinks "ill hit him with a 1" punch" and you miss the first 30 cm that could have made the strike even better.
so just do siu lim tao and try to put as much as you can in the palms.
see ya