Beginnings of Shaolin Boxing - history

This is probably not new information to most of you, but since I'm on a translating kick I thought I'd post it anyway.
Source: Zhongguo Wushu Shi, Lin Boyuan zhu (Taibei: Wuzhou Chubanshe), 1996, pp. 181-183.
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Chapter 5: Wushu in the Sui, Tang, and Five Dynasties
Section 8: Shaolin Temple Gains Fame for Martial Prowess / Bodhidharma Did Not Transmit Shaolin Boxing

The origins of Shaolin Temple’s reputation for martial prowess lay in its opposition of the [so-called] “Righteous Army” [a bandit group] at the end of the Sui and its assistance given to Li Shimin in defeating Wang Shichong. Both of these events are recorded in the “Shaolin Temple Stele”, written by Pei Cui of the Tang (preserved in juan 279 of Quan Tangwen [Complete Writings of the Tang])

The “Shaolin Temple Stele” says: “As the establishment of the dynasty was coming to a close, the nine provinces were in disorder, and groups of bandits were attacking and plundering, with no distinction between lay and clergy. This temple was besieged by mountain bandits; the monks and their disciples resisted them, and the bandits set fire to the pagodas and the grounds. All of the buildings within the grounds were quickly consumed with fire.” This passage is referring to the attack suffered by the Shaolin Temple, which was in possession of large, wealthy lands, at the end of the Sui Dynasty by brigand armies. When the monks and their disciples fought against them, the temple received serious fire damage. Yet the fact that the monks fought against the brigands shows that at that time, they were definitely in possession of fighting skills.

At the beginning of the the Tang dynasty, in the 7th month of the third year of the Wude reign (620 CE), Li Yuan sent Li Shimin to rally troops to attack Wang Shichong in Luoyang. One by one, the provinces under Wang Shichong’s control fell, and he sought help from Dou Jiande, who was holding Luoyang. In the 5th month of 621, after Li Shimin destroyed the armies of Dou Jiande, he returned to attack Luoyang. Wang Shichong, in desperate straits, opened the city to surrender to Li Shimin. As he was being surrounded, his nephew Wang Ren was making preparations on his Baigu Manor, 50 li to the northwest of Shaolin Temple, to attack Li Shimin. At the same time, his eye was on the Shaolin Temple, with the intention of occupying the monastery. Li Shimin sent a proclamation to the temple and the surrounding people, hoping that “the monks and others would recognize the scheme”, “seize the wrongdoers and protect the Pure Land”. After the proclamation was issued, the monks Zhicao, Huichang, Tanzong and others led a group of monks to fight against Wang Shichong’s armies, capturing his nephew and returning him to the court. Because of this, Li Shimin bestowed imperial favour on the temple, greatly increasing its fame throughout the lands.

The fact that a group of Shaolin monks took part in these battles shows that at that time, the Shaolin monks had definitely developed martial skills. The main reason why the monks practiced was for protection, in order to guard the temple grounds, which was a common phenomenon at the time. And, after receiving imperial commendation from Tang Taizong Li Shimin, the temple received its reputation for martial arts.

At the beginning of the 20th Century, the idea that “Shaolin martial arts originated from Bodhidharma” was spread. Yet, this is basically not in accordance with the real history of Chinese martial arts.

Bodhidharma (shortened Chinese name Damo) was a monk of Indian origin. Towards the end of the 5th century CE, he arrived at the capital of the Southern court of the Liu-Song Dynasty; later, he traveled to the lands of Northern Wei. He then traveled through Luoyang, Mt. Song (Songshan) and the city of Ye, all the time “living in no fixed place”, “spreading the Chan teachings wherever he stopped” (Xu Gaoseng Zhuan – “Continued Biographies of Eminent Monks”). Neither the work “Luoyang Qielan Ji” (A Record of Monasteries in the Luoyang Area), written by Yang Xuan, who was roughly contemporary with Bodhidharma, nor the aforementioned “Xu Gaoseng Zhuan”, written at the beginning of Tang by the monk Daoxuan, record that Bodhidharma spent any extended period of time at the Shaolin Temple, nor is there any mention of his “facing the wall for 9 years”. In 723, under the reign of Tang emperor Xuanzong, the “Song Mountain Shaolin Temple Stele” states that Bodhidharma and his disciple Huike “once resided at this mountain”, referring to Mt. Song; yet, there is no mention that they actually stayed at the Shaolin Temple. The earliest record of Bodhidharma, “living at the Shaolin Temple on Mt. Song”, is found in the “Jingde Zhuandeng Lu” (Jingde Record of the Transmission of the Lamp), compiled in the Northern Song (960-1126), which states that he “in the tenth year of the Taihe period of Emperor Xiaoming of Northern Wei”, Bodhidharma lived in Luoyang; later, he went to the Shaolin Temple where he “faced a wall for nine years, not speaking for the entire time”. Finally, it records that nine years later he “passed away, seated upright”. This is the origin of the story of Bodhidharma facing the wall for nine years. There are many errors in this account. First of all, the Taihe reign period occurred under Emperor Xiaowen, not under Emperor Xiaoming. Disregarding this mistake, and assuming that the authors meant the tenth year of Taihe under Emperor Xiaowen, the story is still not possible, because at this time the Shaolin Temple had not yet been established on Mt. Song. Moreover, there is no mention in this account of Bodhidharma teaching boxing.

Within some of the stone steles still remaining at the Shaolin Temple today, such as the “King of Qin’s Proclamation to the Abbot of Shaolin Temple” (621 CE), “Edict Granting Fields to the Shaolin Temple” (632 CE), “Record of Repairs Performed at the Shaolin Temple” (683 CE), “Song Mountain Shaolin Temple Stele” (723 CE), and others which record important events in the history of Shaolin Temple, there is absolutely no mention of any relation between Shaolin martial arts and Bodhidharma.

As for the “Yi Jin Jing” (Muscle Change Classic), a spurious text attributed to Bodhidharma and included in the legend of his transmitting martial arts at the temple, it was writtin in the Ming dynasty, in 1624 CE, by the Daoist priest Zining of Mt. Tiantai, and falsely attributed to Bodhidharma. Forged prefaces, attributed to the Tang general Li Jing and the Southern Song general Niu Hao were written. They say that, after Bodhidharma faced the wall for nine years at Shaolin temple, he left behind an iron chest; when the monks opened this chest they found the two books “Xi Sui Jing” (Marrow Washing Classic) and “Yi Jin Jing” within. The first book was taken by his disciple Huike, and disappeared; as for the second, “the monks selfishly coveted it, practicing the skills therein, falling into heterodox ways, and losing the correct purpose of cultivating the Real. The Shaolin monks have made some fame for themselves through their fighting skill; this is all due to having obtained this manuscript.” Based on this, Bodhidharma was claimed to be the ancestor of Shaolin martial arts. This manuscript is full of errors, absurdities and fantastic claims; it cannot be taken as a legitimate source.

ok i feel like a nerd replying to my own post but... i just found another interesting writing that seeks to disprove the Bodhidharma legend, this time from the Shaolin Encyclopedia (Shaolinsi wushu baike quanshu):

In recent years some monks and lay boxing teachers are unclear as to the origins of Shaolin martial arts, and they pass on hearsay which states that Shaolin martial arts were created by Bodhidharma. Therefore they have added "Bodhidharma" to the names of certain routines, such as Bodhidharma Sword (Damo jian), Bodhidharma Staff (Damo gun), Bodhidharma cane (Damo zhang), etc. Actually, this is all unfounded and erroneous speech. Particularly, in the Republican era, books such as "True Meaning of Shaolin Boxing" (Shaolin quanfa jingyi), "Secrets of the Martial Arts of Shaolin" (Shaolin quanshu mijue), "Illustrated Explanation of Shaolin Boxing" (Shaolin quanfa tushuo), and the like have propagated this theory, spreading it abroad and contributing to misunderstandings. This kind of talk is very unadvantageous to those of us who practice and study [Shaolin martial arts which are] the transmitted teachings from our [Chinese] ancestors. In order to unearth the national treasures of our ancestral culture, and advance the tradition of Shaolin martial arts, we must reveal the true history, seek the origin, and by means of conclusive and irrefutable historical evidence inquire into and illuminate the relationship between Bodhidharma and Shaolin martial arts, thoroughly investigating and correcting this unfounded and misunderstood belief.

According to "Taiping guangji" and "Jiushi jiwen", [the monk] Sengchou could leap over a man's head onto the rafters, lift a weight of 1000 jun, throw a punch quickly and fiercely, and move without a sound. From this it can be seen that Chan Master Chou possessed exceptional martial skills for his time, moving as if flying, able to jump up to the rafters in a single bound. When he punched, he did so with great force, and could kill fierce animals with a single blow; when he reached out his hand he could move objects weighing 1000 jin -- certainly, he was a great martial artist who had cultivated both internal and external aspects.

According to the Record of Shaolin Temple (Shaolinsi zhi) and the Biographies of Eminent Monks (Gaoseng zhuan), Teacher Chou was the disciple of the monk Bhadra (Batuo), the founder of Shaolin Monastery. He became a monk at Shaolin in the 19th year of Taihe (495 CE); Bodhidharma did not arrive at Mt. Song until 527 CE under the rule of Emperor Xiaoming, 32 years after Sengchou; how could he have transmitted martial arts to Teacher Chou?

According to the Jingde Record of the Transmission of the Lamp (Jingde zhuandeng lu), the Record of Shaolin Temple, and other documents, after arriving at Mt. Song, Bodhidharma did not go past Wuru Peak, halfway up the mountain, where he found a cave and sat facing the wall for nine years, after which he traveled east and passed away. Basically, he never even entered the Shaolin Temple; except for transmitting the Dharma to Shenguang outside of the temple, he never even met a single monk. Not only did Bodhidharma not transmit any boxing techniques to any monks; moreover, there is no relation between Bodhidharma and the monks practicing boxing.

Checking the History of Wei (Weishu), the 24 Histories (Ershisi shi), the Record of Shaolin Temple and the stone steles which survive at Shaolin Temple, one will not find a single mention of Bodhidharma being proficient in martial arts. Since there is no record of him possessing such skills, this is another reason why he could not be the creator of Shaolin boxing.

So, why do people say that "Bodhidharma created Shaolin Boxing"? It appears that this idea originated at the end of the Qing dynasty, following the Jingde Record of Transmission of the Lamp.

The Jingde... , which was written at the end of the 11th century, states that "On the 10th day of the 11th month of the 10th year of the Taihe reign of Emperor Xiaoming of the Latter Wei, Bodhidharma set out from Luoyang, arriving at the Shaolin Temple on Mt. Song. He sat facing a wall, not speaking at all; in the 19th year of Taihe, 10th month 5th day, he passed away, sitting upright." According to this, Bodhidharma sat facing the wall at Shaolin for exactly nine years; later, this became the foundation for false stories. Actually, within this section of the Jingde... there are several inconsistencies. Taihe was the name of the reign period of Tuoba Hong (Emperor Xiaowen), not Emperor Xiaoming. According to "Taiping guangji", the Shaolin monastery on Shaoshi peak of Mt. Song was built by the monk Bhadra, from India, in the 19th year of Taihe (495 CE), in the same year that Tuoba Hong (Emperor Xiaowen) moved the capital to Luoyang. Yet the Jingde... states that Bodhidharma built the temple in the Latter Wei; how then could he have visited it? The Jingde... also says that in the 19th year of Taihe, he "passed away, seated upright"; is this "facing the wall for nine years" not just empty talk? This kind of misleading information (as found in the Jingde...) caused people to later believe that Bodhidharma had created Shaolin boxing.

In the Ming dynasty, Cheng Dou, in such works as "Staff Techniques of the Chan Sect of Shaolin" (Shaolin gunfa chanzong) and "Shaolin Staff Techniques" (Shaolin gunfa), although falsely claiming that the kitchen monk Jinnaluo was a guardian spirit, did not make any mention of Bodhidharma practicing martial arts. Thus one can see that, from the creation of the monastery in the 5th century up to the Ming dynasty, over 1000 years, the belief did not exist that Bodhidharma had anything to do with Shaolin martial arts.

After the [Manchu] Qing took over, there was fear among the government that the Han Chinese would try to revive the Ming and overthrow the Qing; on many occasions the government prohibited Buddhists, Daoists and common people from practicing martial arts. A few patriots who had the aim of restoring the Ming, yet did not dare to openly practice martial arts, in order to further their goal took advantage of the Qing government's faith in Buddhism and created the myth that Bodhidharma had created Shaolin boxing in order to deceive the government. They spread this story among the people in order to achieve the goal of being able to practice wushu and restore the Ming. Works such as Li Jing's preface to the "Yijin jing", "Shaolin quanshu mijue" (1915), "Shaolin quanfa tushuo" (1921), "Secret of Tang Xianzu's Bodhidharma Style Boxing" (Tang Xianzu Damo pai quan jue, 1926), etc. all contributed to the propagation of this false belief that Bodhidharma had created Shaolin boxing; particularly the book "Shaolin quanfa jingyi" (1918), in which the author took Damo (Bodhidharma) as his name.

There are also some martial artists who, in order to make Shaolin boxing seem mystical and mysterious, purposefully created false writings and attributed them to Bodhidharma, confusing those who study martial arts, and adding Bodhidharma's name to several different wushu routines, such as Bodhidharma Sword, Bodhidharma Staff, Bodhidharma Cane, etc. The monks of Shaolin Temple have also followed along with this, creating the false saying "Bodhidharma sword, Shaolin fist". They used the well-known name of Bodhidharma to add prestige to Shaolin. Since a few scholars, relying on the Jingde..., etc. have perpetuated the false statement that "Bodhidharma created Shaolin boxing", it has gradually permeated the world of martial arts. The breadth of its dissemination, the depth of its influence are such that this myth has even reached other countries. From the above historical evidence, it can be clearly seen that Bodhidharma did not practice martial arts; much less could he have been the creator of Shaolin martial arts. Yet, it cannot be denied that, as the first patriarch of Chan Buddhism, the figure of Bodhidharma has had great influence on the Chinese tradition.

Summary: It can be determined that Shaolin boxing began in the Northern Wei dynasty, developing at the Shaolin Temple and becoming well-known in the Tang dynasty. Shaolin martial arts were created by the monks of Shaolin Temple for personal protection and physical exercise; as they developed, they absorbed influences from other styles of martial arts within China. After a long period of practice, refinement, and development, they gradually developed and advanced, retaining their own flavor and becoming an unique form of physical exercise.

Whered u get this?
If the monks them selves say that Bodidahrma set stuff up who are we to argue?

If anyone knows best on this boardI would say Gene

Goodstuff beiquan.

Guile,
We should look at the facts.
What he has written here is historically accurate.

beiquan -
excellent work on the translations... funny how the forum has become a leading edge in martial history... keep it up!

and I am curious to hear more responses... esp. from Gene Ching, but I believe he's in China now, so I suppose we may have to wait.

The documentation refered to above does not

r -
thanks for the reply, you're right about the dates, i'm not sure where the second author got 527 -- if i remember, the xu gaoseng zhuan places Bodhidharma in china before the moving of the capital to luoyang in 495.

i was hoping that you could expand on your statement about vajrayana and anuttarayoga, in what ways do you feel these practices influenced chan, and/or shaolin MA?

Very interesting. I have always said Damo did not create Shaolin Kung Fu. Maybe the basic Qi Gong, like Xue Sue Jing, 18 Louhan hands, and Yi Jin Jing, but even that is in question as someone once told me 18 Louhan hands was developed by the monks later down the road, and not by Damo.

AFAIK, it is true that Bodhidharma did not transmit the core of martial arts to Shaolin. In fact, martial arts existed in China long before, but another monk who established Shaolin (given by some emperor) taught a lot of meditation and yoga.

However when Bodhidharma arrived, he found that the meditating monks were not very physically, and hence created certain sets and training routines as a basis of practise for Buddhism. This is where it is different.

So instead of inventing Shao-lin Martial Arts, Bodhidharma incorporated Buddhism into a sport with emphasis on internal movements such as qi-gong (prajnayama) and various pose and flexibility designed to enhance life-force and promote perfection of body hence mind. This is, in line with Buddhist teaching.

If I am not wrong, isnt this what makes ShaoLin Kung Fu different ?

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Originally posted by beiquan
r -
thanks for the reply, you're right about the dates, i'm not sure where the second author got 527 -- if i remember, the xu gaoseng zhuan places Bodhidharma in china before the moving of the capital to luoyang in 495.

i was hoping that you could expand on your statement about vajrayana and anuttarayoga, in what ways do you feel these practices influenced chan, and/or shaolin MA?

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Vajrayana emphasis the practise of guru yoga and mantra recitation as premilnary practise, which is the basis of meditation used by the shaolin monks. The practise of qi-gong is the core difference in the teachings of anuttarayoga, where emphasis is placed on developing the middle and two side nadis, and opening the crown chakra, and cleasing the Head, THroat and Heart chakras. The wrathfulness of martial arts requires the guidance of a transmission from a guru to student in an unbroken succession , hence Shaolin teachings has incredible emphasis on teacher-student relationship. No other form of Vajrayana that I am aware of places more emphasis in the middle nadi, except perhaps for Phowa, which is still a step in Anu-yoga. A teacher must choose carefully a student and teach a particular student a certain teaching, because teaching something that is not suited to one student will cause both student and teacher to be reborned in hell.

Again as I said before elsewhere, Shao-Lin KF is very much a path in Buddhism. And I have always been bothered to bring the relationship with anu-yoga and ShaoLin KF up before. I am sworn not too, but not sure if I am allowed to participate in a discussion of it though....

Qigong and yogic/gymnastic practices existed in China long before Bodhidharma or even the introduction of Buddhism. Why would Chinese monks need to learn these things from Bodhidharma?

The Yijin jing and Xisui jing that are attributed to Bodhidharma are clearly forgeries. The terminology used in these texts is completely Daoist, even the name of the guy who wrote the book, claiming to have mysteriously received these teachings from a hermit somewhere, is a Daoist name... anyway the practices described therein have as little to do with Buddhist teachings as Shaolin martial arts, which IMHO is not much.

All Chinese martial arts place emphasis on the teacher-student relationship, because that's the only way they survive. I don't see any difference between Shaolin martial arts and any other secular, family system of Chinese martial arts. They began as self-defense, and they were passed on as tradition.

white stick,

I did not imply Bodhidharma brought yoga to China, however I am implying Bodhidharma taught exercises that combined physical yoga to the monks that emphasis on their spiritual path.

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The Yijin jing and Xisui jing that are attributed to Bodhidharma are clearly forgeries. The terminology used in these texts is completely Daoist, even the name of the guy who wrote the book, claiming to have mysteriously received these teachings from a hermit somewhere, is a Daoist name... anyway the practices described therein have as little to do with Buddhist teachings as Shaolin martial arts, which IMHO is not much.

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I wonder if anyone can confirm that the Daoist teachings are similar if not have roots from the Bon traditions. Can you translate the YiJin and XiSui somehow ?

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I wonder if anyone can confirm that the Daoist teachings are similar if not have roots from the Bon traditions.

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Actually it's the other way around. According to Daoist teachings, Laozi, the author of the Daode jing, traveled to India around the 5th century BC, where he manifested himself as the Buddha and started Buddhism.

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Originally posted by beiquan


Actually it's the other way around. According to Daoist teachings, Laozi, the author of the Daode jing, traveled to India around the 5th century BC, where he manifested himself as the Buddha and started Buddhism.

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wow this is new.

Found something

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The Zen Buddhismus originates from India. 527 Bodhidharma, one of the 28 founders of the Zen Buddhismus traveled to India, on the sea route to China and then to the Shaolin monastery. There it created the Zen sparkling wines. It took up numerous young and arranged for them the theory of the Zen sparkling wines.

Bodhidharma endorsed Selbstkultivation by sitting meditation. It was the opinion that this kind of the Meditation for reaching illuminating of great importance was. Completely equal whether outside bitter winter prevailed or oppressive hot summer, it meditierte nine years long sitting with the face to the wall in a stone cave northwest the Shaolin temple. Its body casting forced itself away firmly in these nine years on rock. This rock is kept today in that Baiyi resounding the monastery and the mountain cave is called Bodhidharma H?hle.

Bodhidharma was the inventor of the so-called Shaoliner of combat arts. With the sitting Meditation happened it easily that the practicing became tired and its legs of long seats became completely rigid. With the time many became very strengthless. Therefore Bodhidharma developed an exercise, with which the movements were copied by tigers, apes, leopards and other animals. Altogether this exercise consisted of 18 movements for the stabilization of the body and for vorbeugung against diseases. These 18 movements were designated later than, 18 movements of the Shaolin temple ". In addition Bodhidharma taught Yijin Xisui Jing to its apprentices. Yijin means manipulation and improvement of bones and muscles, Xisui meant that one abhaertet oneself by breath exercises physically. With these exercises, peace "and, are combined movement", as it were a connection of Wushu and sitting meditation. Therefore those, were called 18 movements of the Shaolin temple ", Wushuchan ". W?hrend of later dynasties was developed further, Wushuchan "by the monks on the basis of the admission of the traditional combat art in the people. The wall painting, 13 flogging monks of the Shaolin temple save the emperor of the seaweed dynasty "in that Baiyi resounding shows a scene, how the monks of the temple Shimin, which struggled Wang Shicong of the Sui dynasty with the general for the dominating position, saves the seaweed emperor Taizong left. After he had become emperor, left lent Shimin to the monks of the Shaolin temple title, gave the monastery plough land and issued a special decree, which permitted the monks to eat meat and drink wine.

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and hence it became Bodhidharma and the 18 Arahats :)

"Actually it's the

Well, I agree with r.(Shaolin). People often think that the greatness of a style can only be as great as its progenitor. What they forget are the links in between. If we paid attention to what was said about the monks where doing during Bodhidharma's time, we see that they were practicing meditation techniques incorrectly and they did not get the full benefit of meditation, which is what the word Dhyana (Ch'an) actually means. It is very likely that they skipped Asana entirely and may be using different pranayama techniques then Bodhidharma was using. This problem still exsits today because it is human nature to just focus on the sweet reward but not the bitter stuff that came with it. Traditionally, the 8 limbs of Yoga must be practiced together in order to get the full benefit. This was most likely what he saw and tried to rectify. Asana is not just stretching exercises they also help to focus or rather prepare the mind-body continuum so that the yoking of mind, body, and outer reality can happen. Why is it not possible for the Chinese people back then learned or practiced half-ass Budhism? How can we presume that everyone fully understood the foreign teahers and their languages with a foreign religion [re: concepts and all] at a time when academic pursuit wasn't even affordable to all. Religious study like martial arts is a complicate undertaking. I think a lot of people take things for granted. It is also understandalbe that some religious inclined folks would want the Hindu root seperates from Budhist practice to fit their own agenda. Any religion would have to struggle with growing pain so is Budhism as it took hold in foriegn land. Now that you add martial arts into the equation, you really have complicated the problem by a few folds. I am sure there were lots of martial activities even before the arrival of Bodhidharma but were they well rounded without the spiritual outlook of Budhism? Would they have the unique and distinct flavour that Shaolin arts process?

I believe we should respect other cultures' contributions. Give credit where credit is dued. That's the only way that Chinese martial arts or Shaolin martial arts for that matter would live long and prosperous.

Mantis108

...at Shaolin will tell you that Damo did not originate martial practice at Shaolin, but that it was two of Bato's disciples who were the first to practice martial arts within the context of Shaolin, one having been mentioned and I will here slaughter their names, Seng Chou and Wei Wong, our story is they were former military men who gave up their lives of killing- one could kick a shuttle**** a hundred times or more around a well, or something like that. I'm sure someone has that reference handy so please help me out...(r.shaolin?)

Ji Guang, becoming Hui Ke, is also said to have been a former military man.
The story we have been taught is that Damo did contribute four forms, two martial of aspect, and two not: Yi Jin Jing (we call this a "sutra" and not a classic- there is no indication of this being a written work) the Xi Sui Jing (also referred to as a sutra) the Wu Xing Chuan, and also Lohan Shi Ba Sho which eventually gave rise to the Lohan systems and the "big" Lohan form, comprised of 108 movements. This form is considered to be very sacred and is rarely passed on in it's entirety. Lots of variants exist because of this.

I don't see why it is such a far cry to make the reasonable assumption that Damo was trained martially, considering where he came from...

So in the tradition we are learning, there can be said to be four major contributors to Shaolin gong fu- Batuo's two disciples sort of count as one, Damo, Hui Ke, and the abbot Fu Yu. I have not yet heard what specifically anyone except for Fu Yu and Damo contributed.

Is Wu Xing Chuan the one that is about 36 postures in length and you hold each posture for 5-10 minutes?

Also, what is Wu Xing translated to? Am I correct in thinking "Five Animals", or is it "Five Imitations"?

It's five animals...I haven't learned any of it yet.

The only animal I learned was Eagle, and I have a feeling there is lots more to it.

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If we paid attention to what was said about the monks where doing during Bodhidharma's time, we see that they were practicing meditation techniques incorrectly and they did not get the full benefit of meditation, which is what the word Dhyana (Ch'an) actually means.

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what was said? who said it? what were they doing incorrectly? what are your sources?

anyone can make a statement on the Internet. i have provided sources, what are yours?

understand that, by Bodhidharma's arrival, Buddhism had been in China for almost 500 years. many major developments in Chinese Buddhism had already occurred. many of the important sutras had already been translated into Chinese. numerous foreign monks had made immense contributions to the spread of Buddhism in China -- An Shikao, Lokaksema, Dharmaraksa, Kumarajiva, they all had many disciples, and their activities and writings have been recorded in many sources and included in the Buddhist Canon.

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Why is it not possible for the Chinese people back then learned or practiced half-ass Budhism? How can we presume that everyone fully understood the foreign teahers and their languages with a foreign religion [re: concepts and all] at a time when academic pursuit wasn't even affordable to all.

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see above. Buddhism had been in China already 500 years when Bodhidharma got there, how stupid do you think the Chinese people are? many sutras had been translated, annotated, commented upon numerous times, numerous other monks had come from India bringing teachings and practices with them.

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It is also understandalbe that some religious inclined folks would want the Hindu root seperates from Budhist practice to fit their own agenda.

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it's equally understandable that people seeking to add mystique to the legends concerning the origins of Shaolin would like to claim that CMA originated from India to fit their own agenda.

r -

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Actually that old (very old :-)))) fabrication is more about politics than fact. It was first propagated by Hsiang Kai in the second century, followed up by a piece of apacryhpha to substantiate it called Hua Hu-ching written by Wang Fu in the fourth century.

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sorry that was a bad joke on my part. i just finished reading the 'bianwei lu' and doing some research on Fuyu and the debates of 1258 and the 'huahu' stuff was fresh in my mind. i guess my point was that people will make all kinds of crazy statements in order to legitimize their own traditions at the expense of others...

You want sources - very simple - just read any number of books on Yoga and Budhism. Better yet find a Yogi and get his/her opinion about Dhyana. Scholars can compile historical events without even get involve with the activities. What makes them more authoritive then others who practice (walk the walk)? They "read" or "study" more books? Don't forget you are quoting from book too. Having said that I am not attacking your credibility. So please relax. :) From most of the accounts that talk about the monks points to that they were often not physically fit or falling asleep during meditations that indicates inproper practice in my mind. Inporper meditaion techniques or practice will make one sick too. Now I am not saying I have iron clad proof that's what happened. How many generations would have passed during 500 years and can we be sure nothing got lost during that 500 years? It only takes more or less 50 years to get people to think Modern Wushu is the real deal. Now it is even in the walls of Shaolin. In the 80, there was a visit from Japanese Shaorinji Kempo (?). The abbot then "immediately" recognize the founder of that style who supposedly was studying in the temple as a young man in his teens. That was like 1940s. Now if this is recorded in the Shaolin book of records. What would the SCHOLARS say in the future 500 years from now? Regarding the sutras, as many as millions of people have heard of or even read the Vajra Pranja Paramita (AKA Diamond sutra) how many people actually understand the parable that it was based upon? Just the title alone has the rich meaning of becoming Arhat or Lohan. Why of all things, the sutra's title has to do with the powerful weapon of the Indian King of the lesser Gods - Indra? Like all other religions, rationalism and mysticism are 2 forces that drive the debate. It is human to be a little bit of both. You might blindside yourself by just taking one approach. But that's your believe, I respect that.

I am joining this discussion not because I disapprove of your fine work. In fact, I appreciate it very much. But I also happen to agree with r.(Shaolin) and so I speak my mind. I am merely providing an other view point.

Regards

Mantis108

PS I am Chinese and I can speak (Cantonese), read and write Chinese. I personally don't buy that Chinese were and are smart to the point that we understand the original form of Budhism as good or even better just by reading translated sutras. That's why the 6th patriarch of Ch'an, who was illiterate and definitely no scholar, is important in developing Ch'an in China. But then he was casted out of Shaolin. ;)

mantis108 - well said, and thanks for your clarification. i very much agree with you that too much study and not enough practice can lead to a one-sided perspective. unfortunately the more you study, the less time you have for practice :) also, the traditional 'western' approach to historical scholarship is a very critical one, and this critical perspective has been carried over into religious studies. your post has reminded me that, especially when dealing with religion and mystical experience, this approach shouldn't necessarily be the only one.

bq

Tamo was our symbolic first patriarch and Shaolin was the symbolic origin of Kung Fu - emphasis on symbolic. If you're looking for a single point of origin for our vast legacy, you're nuts. Think about it. It's like trying to figure out who invented the internet but 1500 years from now (don't say Al Gore, he was our symbolic first patriarch.)

Seriously, if you're looking at point of fact, no one will deny that martial arts existed prior to Shaolin. What makes Shaolin interesting is that it formalized martial arts as an almost academic study, perhaps elevating it from strict self defence and combat, into a form of meditation. That's what Tamo brings to it - the practice as medititation. There's the Chan for you right there. Now Tamo being the first patriarch of Chan/Zen is a perfect symbolic figure for us to venerate. Sure, it's a bit of a leap of faith, but any spiritual practice will demand such leaps now and again. If you're going to be all scientific/historical, spirituality never factors into such an equation - it's the ghost in the machine. So any true Shaolin follower respects Tamo, even though many of his stories are no more than legend. If you can't live with that little paradox, maybe this practice isn't for you. Wait to you get to a real koan. That will tear the skin right off your head.

You know it's funny. I met some travellers at my most recent Shaolin trip who went to Shaolin to learn Kung Fu and Buddhism. Did they know the first thing about either? Not really. It was a bit like walking up to Harvard law school, not knowing the first thing about law. I was impressed by the people who immersed themselves into it and did the best they could. I was disgusted by the people who complained that they couldn't find 'real kung fu or buddhism' there, since their notion of these seemed more based on movies than anything else. Martial artists can be shallow to a fault. It's really a shame, since our tradition is so rich and deep. It really deserves better.

Great posts guys - love all the translation work!

Excellent post I agree Gene the threads in this forum are always enlightening and a joy to read and participate in thanks guys.

for the record

Speaking of Sengchou...

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Ancient Inscription May Link Cave to Shaolin Kung Fu
Wednesday, April 26, 2017

http://www.archaeology.org/images/Ne...r-Sengchou.jpg
(podoboq, via Wikimedia Commons)

SHIJIAZUHANG, CHINA—Xinhua reports that a 1,400-year-old inscription has been found carved on the wall of a cave in northern China’s Hebei Province. The inscription identifies the cave as a place of seclusion for Master Sengchou, who may have been in the military before he became a Buddhist monk in the sixth century A.D. Master Sengchou is remembered as a martial arts expert and is credited with promoting Zen Buddhism and the tradition of Shaolin monks practicing martial arts. “The discovery offers precious materials to study the history of local Buddhism and the Northern Qi Dynasty,” said Liu Xinchang of Handan City’s history association.

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14 years from now, I will comment in reply to Gene's response here.
Just to fit in. :p

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Originally Posted by GeneChing

Speaking of Sengchou...

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Ancient rock inscription, monument discovered in N China
Source: Xinhua| 2017-07-24 16:01:25|Editor: Liangyu

SHIJIAZHUANG, July 24 (Xinhua) -- An ancient rock inscription and stone monument dating back 900 years have been discovered on a mountain in Cixian county, northern China's Hebei Province.
The inscription, made up of more than 130 Chinese characters, was carved on a piece of smooth stone about 1 meter high and 1.5 meter wide, according to the local cultural heritage administration.
The stone monument was underneath the inscription, on which about 300 Chinese characters were carved, it said.
Both the inscription and the monument recorded the renovation of Chouchan Temple during the Song Dynasty (960-1279).
Chouchan Temple is believed to be where Master Sengchou, a famous monk in the Northern Qi Dynasty (550-577), taught Zen Buddhism.
According to historical records, Sengchou learned Buddhist doctrine and martial arts at the Shaolin Temple. As a kungfu expert, Sengchou played a significant role in the tradition of Shaolin monks practicing martial arts.
"The new discovery offers valuable materials to study the history of Chouchan Temple and other famous temples," said Liu Xinchang, head of the history association of Handan city.

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Chouchan Temple. I imagine the Chou is from Sengchou and the Chan is Chan.

I'm posting this on our Beginnings of Shaolin Boxing - history thread because it has a lot of yoga talk, and also copying it to our yoga thread.

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Yoga meets Zen in Shaolin Temple(1/8)
2018-08-27 15:30:35Ecns.cn Editor :Yao Lan
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Yoga and kung fu enthusiasts perform in a cultural festival on Mount Song, home to the Shaolin Temple, in Dengfeng, Central China’s Henan Province, Aug. 25, 2018. (Photo: China News Service/Wang Zhongju)

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I was wondering what the photos above were about. The article below runs the same pix, except for what I've copied here.

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Shaolin kung fu shares stage with yoga
chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2018-08-27 14:40

A yoga master and a Shaolin warrior monk perform similar movement on a shared stage of the closing ceremony of the 2018 Shaolin Martial Arts General Assembly at Mount Songshan, Henan province, Aug 25, 2018. [Photo/IC]
Yoga lovers and Shaolin monks performed together at the zen culture festival, a theme activity on the last day of the 2018 Shaolin Martial Arts General Assembly on Aug 25, at Mount Songshan, location of the Shaolin Temple, in Henan province.

The two exercises have been deeply influenced by zen Buddhism in their development. By inviting yoga lovers to the event, the audience had a better understanding and different experience of the zen culture.

Yoga and martial arts performers exercised on the various scenic spots of Mount Songshan. The world-renowned yoga masters were on the scene to lead the audience to practice yoga.

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THREADS
Beginnings of Shaolin Boxing - history yoga

I copied the two posts above from the Beginnings of Shaolin Boxing - history thread to this Shaolin Temple World Martial Arts Assembly because it sits more appropriately here. Also copying this to our Shaolin's African Disciples because I love those cross-links. I suspect the flag raising ceremony might have been connected to this Assembly too, but I'm not going to add that because it might have just been about National Day.

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African Nations Pull Up in Force to Shaolin Kung Fu General Assembly
by Adan Kohnhorst | Aug 30, 2018

https://i0.wp.com/radiichina.com/wp-...80%2C640&ssl=1

The Shaolin Temple just closed out its 2018 Shaolin Martial Arts General Assembly, and well ****, African nations came through.

Twenty-two trainees from seven African countries — Cameroon, Chad, Niger, Burundi, Mali, Djibouti, and the Central African Republic — spent three months at the temple as participants in the Ministry of Culture’s sixth African student exchange program. The class studied empty-handed Shaolin kung fu, plus sword and staff techniques. At the end of the training period students performed what they’d learned for the temple’s abbot, and received certificates of completion.

https://i0.wp.com/radiichina.com/wp-...80%2C720&ssl=1

Full disclosure, this writer happened to be at the temple while the African exchange unit was there training, and can confirm, they were doing some serious stuff. Tourists from across China watched with confusion and pleasant surprise .

“We came empty-handed but finished full of enthusiasm,” one participant said. “We’re really excited to be ambassadors of Chinese culture, and to share what we learned at the temple with people back home.”

The abbot Shi Yongxin, international media’s notorious “CEO monk”, had a more put-together statement to make:

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The Shaolin Temple is committed to supporting China-Africa ties, cultivating the friendship between Chinese and African people, and pushing forward on cultural exchange and cooperation between China and Africa.

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Outside of the African class, other foreigners and kung fu fans made the trip out for the occasion. People’s Daily was quick to seize a photo op on Twitter:

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dlmunm2XcAE_Jlf.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlmunnNXoAA7UmW.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlmunnCX4AEX-dv.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dlmuoe4W4AA1lpO.jpg
View image on Twitter

People's Daily,China
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@PDChina
Yoga lovers practice yoga and Shaolin students perform martial arts along a cliff walkway on Songshan Mountain during the 2018 Shaolin Martial Arts General Assembly in Dengfeng city, Central China's #Henan province, on August 25

5:07 AM - Aug 27, 2018
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As time marches on, and the world around us changes, we can all take comfort knowing that foreigners will continue to flock to the Shaolin Temple with shocking consistency.

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