A lot of recent contraversy here...
IBF World Welterweight champion Kermit Cintron accepts Dana White's challenge.
And, at UFC 71, welterweight Din Thomas called out any boxer that wants to crossover...do I smell a match?
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A lot of recent contraversy here...
IBF World Welterweight champion Kermit Cintron accepts Dana White's challenge.
And, at UFC 71, welterweight Din Thomas called out any boxer that wants to crossover...do I smell a match?
It will be great to see some elite boxers in MMA, but that guy is a boxer and a wrestler, sounds like a mixed martial artist to me?
in a boxing match, any decent pro boxer would KO ANY fighter in the ufc, i would wager. the game changes when grappling is involved, though. I would really love to see a boxer cross train and then enter MMA - I thought the idea of tyson doing it was awesome, but when you think about it, it likely won't happen. Why not? a couple of reasons:
boxing is more popular than mma, so boxers tend to be more well known. He is now putting his rep on the line. If he wins, who cares, because he beat a relative unknown who isn't a boxer anyway. If he loses, then he lost to a relative unknown.
money. boxing pays out millions. MMA doesn't come close. Why risk the injury for so much less money? And if the injury causes them to miss a fight, then they lose even more money. It doesn't make sense.
I am betting that this fight won't happen.
silly me, I forgot where I was.:D
Chuck Liddell: $500,000
Quinton Jackson: $225,000
Karo Parisyan: $32,000
Ivan Salaverry: $17,500
Terry Martin: $12,000
Kalib Starnes: $10,000
Chris Leben: $10,000
Houston Alexander: $8,000
Josh Burkman: $7,000
Keith Jardine: $7,000
Din Thomas: $28,000
Wilson Gouveia: $16,000
Thiago Silva: $16,000
Alan Belcher: $14,000
James Irvin: $7,000
Carmelo Marrero: $5,000
Sean Salmon: $3,000
Jeremy Stephens: $3,000
see, this is pennies compared to boxing.
de la hoya got 45 MILLION for his fight with mayweather.
mayweather got a little over 20 MILLION for the fight.
Tyson and Holyfield both got about 35 MILLION for their fight.
mma pay is just a drop in the bucket. pocket change...
Well...Lidell is no Roy Jones Jr or Hopkins, nor is he even a Klitchko...
Good paydays for MMA, crappy compared to Boxing...
I am trying to find cintron's last purse, but haven't yet. Anyway, he is the #2 contender right now, so if mayweather is getting 20 mil for a fight, I'm guessing cintron got a pretty nice payday since he's right on mayweather's heels.
I think that, worldwide, boxing surpasses MMA in terms of popularity and purses.
Though I think that MMA purses are much nicer, what with all the glitter and sequence.
:p
The purses are bigger because A) it's the only decent fight on the card and B) UFC doesn't pay it's fighters that well. UFC 71 earned 4.4 million off the gate alone! They can afford to pay more, but don't.
The last UFC still scored more pay-per-views than the highest-scoring boxing pay-per-view in hisory.
With the addition of UFC Europe and Pride, UFC will be launching world-wide pay-per-views soon.
Plus, HBO and SHowtime are going to start showing fights.
Boxing is dead.
UFC, a privately held company owned by Zuffa LLC, does not release financial results and White would not discuss them. But an industry executive familiar with the results said the company's 10 pay-per-view events generated more than $200 million (€151.4 million) in customer retail revenue.
WWE said it had 16 events that generated approximately $200 million (€151.4 million) in revenue and HBO had 11 events, reporting revenue of $177 million (€134 million).....
One big difference between WWE and UFC is their audience. Thirty-nine percent of WWE's buys came from international viewers. UFC does not have a slice of the international arena but intends to grab market share from WWE when it holds its first pay-per-view fight in Manchester, England on April 21. White noted UFC has initiatives in Canada, Mexico and England, where it recently opened an office in London.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...tle.php?page=1
Wait 5 years.
In 5 years I hope we have better than what we are seeing right now and in shows like "the ultimate fighter".
I am sure we will, I mean, quality only gets better with time, right?
Still better than the best season of The Contender. At least you get to see the entire fight without editing and sound effects.
Boxing is not dead. It's just heading that way.
Which is a shame as I find boxing to be enjoyable on a whole other level.
Cintron was offered $250,000 to defend his title against Shane Mosely. Not bad, but not Mayweather money. Not even Hughes money.
Mayweather got ridiculous money because he was fighting De La Hoya, who's the largest non-heavyweight draw in boxing history. No MMA event is going to match that for the next decade, I expect. But a lot of non-draw boxers, including champs, make less than Liddell did.
boxers may have a bigger immediate take home, but with the popularity of MMA the advertising potential definately generates a lot of income for fighters. Xience commercials, head blade ads, fight gear all want fighters to advertise their products.
And tattoos, don't forget them.
What bothers me the most about this is the 'versus' mentality, that it's one or the other. I enjoy watching boxing. I enjoy watching MMA. I'd hate to see MMA eclipse boxing because I find boxing an enjoyable spectator sport. Fortunately, I can almost always catch late night boxing on the Spanish networks out here. This is really about which sport generates more money from the masses.
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Judging MMA vs. boxing
BY MIKE HOUSER
Appeal Sports Writer, (Unknown address)
September 19, 2007, 4:01 AM
It was barely four months ago and when Roger Mayweather-Oscar De La Hoya was being billed as the "fight that would save boxing," any right-thinking boxing fan shook his head and passed off the notion as absurd.
After all, boxing didn't need saving and if it did Mayweather and De La Hoya wouldn't be the kind of matchup that would do the sport the kind of justice that Hagler-Hearns, Corrales-Castillo I, or Pryor-Arguello I or II once did.
But beginning with the Mayweather-De La Hoya snoozer a combination of factors have conspired to shine the spotlight on the Sweet Science, which beneath its tawdry surface isn't nearly as attractive as it once was - sort of like shorn Britney Spears without her makeup after a weekend binge.
As if the proliferation of sanctioning bodies and crooked promoters weren't bad enough, a slew of canceled fights - Fernando Vargas-Ricardo Mayorga, Juan Manuel Marquez-Jorge Barrios (and the subsequent Marquez-Rocky Juarez cancellation) and Vitali Klitschko-Jameel McCline - have kept the sport off Showtime and HBO (not to mention out of the newspapers) for nearly a month.
So, if this case of out of sight, out of mind hasn't further imperiled boxing, up steps its newest adversary: mixed martial arts (MMA).
Whether it's the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) or the newly created Elite Xtreme Combat (EliteXC), MMA has emerged to give boxing yet another kick to the cajones - or for that matter, get it in a keylock choke.
While boxing fans eagerly await Jermain Taylor-Kelly Pavlik - to be shown Sept. 29 on HBO - to once again supply the kind of action to make the sport relevant again, MMA is gobbling up the younger fan base with the speed of hot dog eating champion Takeru Kobayashi.
For boxing promoter Gary Shaw, the decision to expand into MMA was an easy one. While he admits he is what he called "less than a novice" when it comes to knowing the nuances of the emerging sport, he has a pair of eyes and ears and a keen enough sense of perception to see where fight consumers' dollars are going and why.
While speaking about his new female "face of the MMA" - new signee Gina Carano, a former Reno resident now living in Las Vegas - Shaw said a world full of video-playing teenagers and young adults have found the sport of their dreams in the MMA, where use of elbows, knees, head butts and chokes are permitted in matches.
Factor in the gladiator-like confines of a cage instead of a ring, MMA has become Halo 3 to boxing's Pong, which many will argue is dated, outmoded and ready for the scrapheap.
MMA is so popular that the eminent Sports Illustrated featured the UFC on its May 28 cover. After a long hiatus, boxing finally made its return to SI's cover less than a month before, when it featured a preview on Mayweather-De La Hoya.
But the magazine allowed only three pages for its boxing piece, compared to eight for its UFC feature.
Reality TV has jumped aboard with its "The Ultimate Fighter" series, which it uses as a feeder system for the undercards of UFC's high-profile pay-per-view events, which easily outdraw boxing PPVs.
If "The Ultimate Fighter" is the Bismarck, then that boxing retread "The Contender" is the Hood and it's getting blown out of the water by its new foil, which is televised on Spike TV.
This raises the question: Can boxing, once the undisputed champion of sports in the early 20th century, survive the challenge of MMA?
The answer, although some will argue to the contrary, is yes.
If nothing else, boxing, for all its many ills, has proved time and again that it's as hard to kill as the ****roach population in New York City.
MMA is still in its infancy, so it's hard to say with conviction whether it's a phenomenon or a fad. Fourteen years ago, there weren't even rules to speak of - with the exception of barring biting, eye-gouging and fish-hooking - in UFC. The sport didn't even have any rounds, where it now has three five-minute rounds in non-title fights and five three-minute rounds in championship contests.
Comparing it to the evolution of boxing, MMA is where pugilism was in the first decade of the 1900s, roughly a decade or so after boxing did away with bare-knuckled combat.
In addition, boxing not only has a far longer history, it is firmly entrenched in the American tapestry and in the world's DNA, remaining a primary vehicle by which many of the world's downtrodden try to escape their harsh socioeconomic conditions.
And let's dispense with arguing who is better - a mixed martial artist or a boxer. If the combat is limited to boxing, the boxer will easily win. If the contest is under MMA rules, the mixed martial artist will prevail. It's that simple. End of discussion.
While the MMA can point to Ken and Frank Shamrock, Royce Gracie and Dan Severn as its progenitors, boxing's tradition is much richer. Casting aside non-heavyweights like Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Robinson and Marvin Hagler, the heavyweight division alone is filled with historical names like John L. Sullivan, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson, among others.
Compared to the pedigree of boxing, MMA names like Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, Randy Couture and Chuck "the Iceman" Liddell are like flavors of the month.
And the hot new technology - the almighty Internet - isn't exactly doing MMA any historical favors. Whereas boxing has been saved for posterity in books and uncountable magazines, the majority of MMA action is captured on Web sites, whose stories disappear into the same electronic ether whence they are formed.
What's more, Hollywood hasn't even managed to come up with the MMA version of "Rocky" or "Raging Bull."
Newer isn't necessarily better and there's no reason why someone can't enjoy both sports.
That said, even though the MMA has outdistanced and dated kickboxing and its legends Bill "Superfoot" Wallace and Kathy Long, compared to boxing it's still the new kid on the block.
Boxing has a saying: To be the champion, you have to beat the champion. And boxing, for all its faults, is still alive and well, the champion and the standard to which all combat sports will be compared.
WTF is a keylock choke ??
He makes some very valid points, especially the historical ones, though I don't think it is fair to compare the likes of the Shamrocks with the likes of Marciano and Louis.
The similarities between boxing's infancy and MMA's infancy is quite correct, even to the "perceived" ruffian image that tends to plague MMA at this time ( too mnay with tattoos, not enough with talent).
Boxing will always have its core audience and MMA will get theirs soon enough.
Both can co-exist and happily.
MMA has a lot of growing up to do, as a product. Last I looked they were still selling it as the new WWE. The direction it moves in now, the bodies that come to dominate it and their approach to the sport will either make it or kill it, if you ask me.
After the Margarito loss Cintron's marketability fell drastically, especially when Margarito was somewhat exposed by Paul Williams.
Cintron was an accomplished high school wrestler, was offered full ride scholarships to Wisconsin and Ohio State, and has been working on transitioning to MMA for over a year now.
He's got a huge punch.
I don't think all boxers would transition well to mma (even given extensive ground training), but with his power, Kermit's definitely one of them.
Last year's PPV numbers had UFC shows over most boxing shows.
I believe this year boxing numbers have been on an upswing.
Them's fightin' words. ;)
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Last update: 11-21-2007
Jeff Lacy: "MMA is a Fad, Not a Sport"
By Mark Vester
In a recent conference with the media, former super middleweight champion Jeff Lacy (22-1, 17KOs) gave his thoughts on Mixed Martial Arts, primarily the UFC, and whether or not the sport of boxing has stepped up to compete with the UFC as a sport.
"I don't think that we really paid much attention to them. I see that as a fad, to tell you the truth. To me it's not a sport. I used to see that in my old neighborhood in the Bronx. The fact of the matter is if you look at it with all their hype and all the rest of the stuff, Oscar de la Hoya verses Mayweather itself in the aggregate grossed as much as almost all of their MMA fights of the year, one fight," Lacy said. "Now you're going to add this card that's coming up now, between the two cards, they out-grossed the entire MMA fights for the year."
Lacy says that MMA is not as popular as the sport of boxing and there is a not a single mixed martial arts competitor on the level of a De La Hoya, Sugar Ray Leonard or even himself. While I won't go as far as stating that Lacy is a more popular athlete than a Chuck Liddell or a Tito Ortiz, two of the most well known stars in MMA, I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if Lacy made just as much money as them in his career.
"So, it's still not as popular as boxing. Boxing is the second most popular sport in the world, next to soccer, and MMA is just something that's come along. They've done a great job of marketing it. For people that remember it, there's nobody on the level of Oscar de la Hoya, Ray Leonard, Ali, or Jeff Lacy or any of these guys," Lacy said. "There's nobody at MMA that right off the top of your head is going to go to a Hall of Fame. They're going to either remember them or they're going to have other lives afterwards. I can't remember one guy."
Lacy returns to the ring on the Dec. 8, facing Peter Manfredo Jr. on the undercard to Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Ricky Hatton in Las Vegas.
gotta agree with that, we use to draw a circle in my boys backyard and just fight it out with using whatever we knew kung fu ,tak kwan do, kickboxing, street fighting whatever. and we all learned from each other as well.Quote:
"I don't think that we really paid much attention to them. I see that as a fad, to tell you the truth. To me it's not a sport. I used to see that in my old neighborhood in the Bronx. The fact of the matter is if you look at it with all their hype and all the rest of the stuff, Oscar de la Hoya verses Mayweather itself in the aggregate grossed as much as almost all of their MMA fights of the year, one fight," Lacy said. "Now you're going to add this card that's coming up now, between the two cards, they out-grossed the entire MMA fights for the year."
Check out Zou Shiming...
Quote:
Zou leads new pack of pugilists
(China Daily)
Updated: 2007-11-20 10:40
Newly crowned world boxing champion Zou Shiming said his success in the ring is the best way to showcase China's power in the sport.
"This is my second world championship title and also the second by a Chinese boxer. I used my fist to tell the world that China is powerful," said Zou, who defended the 48kg title at the World Boxing Championship in Chicago, Illinois earlier this month.
Zou outpointed Harry Tanamor of the Philippines to win 17-3 and he attributed the victory to his healthy mood.
"I always told myself to keep a low key against any opponent," Zou said. "I saw myself as an unknown boxer. This enables me to keep composure under pressure."
Zou, 26, has been named as a gold medal hopeful for China at next year's Beijing Olympic Games.
He won a historic bronze medal for China at the Athens Olympics three years ago. It was the best China has ever placed in the Olympic Games.
"The world championship is the best way to tune up for the Beijing Games. And winning the title is an extra motivation for me to fight for a gold on home soil next year," said Zou, who was a Wushu athlete before turning to boxing.
"There are new rivals coming up in this tournament. So we will work even harder to better prepare for the future challenge."
Zou's impressive performances also awarded him the sole MVP of the tournament and won praises from chief officials.
"He is brilliant. He is awarded the tournament's MVP," said Cui Fuguo, director of the Boxing and Taekwondo Administrative Center (BTAC) of State General Administration of Sports.
"He showed stability and became more mature in the ring. He is able to better control the game and give more pressure to his opponent.
"Moreover, officials from the International Boxing Council and coaches of other countries are speaking highly of his skill."
Standing at 1.70m, Zou was not born a boxer. He had to serve as a sparring partner at first.
But he soon showed talent with his feel for pace and quick speed, taking center stage at the 2003 World Championship where he surprisingly made it into the finals.
Although he lost to the ultimate champion, a silver medal at the World Championship was still the best result China had ever achieved in the boxing ring.
Sport on the rise
At the tournament in Chicago China performed as well as it ever has in a world championship, also winning four bronzes in the 57kg, 69kg, 91kg and over-91kg divisions.
China's boxers rarely made it past the first round in major international competitions but have now emerged as strong competitors on the circuit with seven boxers having clinched Olympic tickets.
"Since Bai Chongguang got a gold medal in the 81kg class at the 11th Asian Games in 1990 and Zou Shiming won a bronze medal in 48kg at the Athens Olympics, Chinese boxing has become more and more mature," said Chang Jianping, the chairman of the Chinese Boxing Association and the director of BTAC.
According to Chang, more and more talented Chinese boxers are emerging, a sure sign that the sport is in good health.
"Worlds gold-medal winner Zhang Maomao, Zhang Xiyan and Zou have combined to give boxing a shot in the arm," said Chang.
"Chinese boxing, no matter whether men's or women's, is developing by leaps and bounds," he said. "Many fighters are reaching a competitive international level, particularly in the men's 48kg."
Cui Dalin, deputy director of the State General Administration of Sports, is also pleased to see the rapid progress, especially with the Beijing Games looming.
"The coaching team did a very good job. China now has its own boxing style," Cui said. "All the players showed the confidence and the ability of changing tactics during the tournament. The results are encouraging for our Olympic preparations."
But Cui also tried to cool down some of the high expectations the boxing team faces: "We did have a breakthrough at this world championship. But we have to stay cool as Cuba did not send players and we also had very lucky draws."
China faces rivals from powerhouses like Russia and Cuba as well as threats from Asia.
In Asia, Thailand, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan all pose a threat. The Philippines, Republic of Korea and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea are all strong in certain categories as well.
Cuba and Russia are the dominant powers in the sport, claiming five and three gold medals, respectively, out of 11 at the Athens Olympics. Russia was also the biggest winner with three golds at this world championship.
I know that most don't think that there is a world outside the US, but how does MMA ratings compare to Boxing in the rest of the world?
When do you think the "fad" label will wear off?
Considering it's been around almost 15 years now, only idiots and those who hate the sport still call it a fad.
...ah, I remember when skiers thought snowboarding was just a fad...who's laughing now...;):cool: