Non Chinese Warrior Monks
Hi:
In this forum, posted some months ago, someone said that there is no foreign warrior monk named in Shaolin Temple.
However, in 1997, 3 Argentinians were initiated as warrior monks in Shaolin Temple, all of them disciples from Shi Yong Kan (Lu Hai Long), trained at Shaolin Shuiku Wushu Xuexiao (Shaolin Dam School or something like that):
Shi Yan Bao (Carlos Aleman), Shi Yan Long (Jorge Bussi), (the third I don't remember the name).
I think they were the first foreign warrior monks in Shaolin Temple.
You can get some info in:
www.slkf.net (chinese)
www.shaolinsi.com.ar (spanish).
Best regards.
claiming to be non chinese monks...
I've heard of one myself. I guess until if ever it's verified you cant really dispute it. I've also heard that for the first time in shaolins history that the abbot has been diosmissing or stripping monks of titles etc, because of behaviour unfit. Better 10 troups you know have your back, than 500 so-so's ha.
oompa loompa dopudy doo - I have another koan for you
The aim of a bodhisattva is akin to
Quote:
"remaining unitl can take all sentient beings with"....
but all monks are not bodhisattvas. Many of the monks are more like Arhats - deep in a world of personal asceticism. They don't remain. They go on. Their aim is the martial arts, not necessarily assisting others to nirvana. This is still a practice of Buddhism, in a way. Many warrior monks leave the brotherhood and take their martial arts study elsewhere. They go on too. Case and point, ex-monk Zhang Lipeng
There are many monks who leave the fold willingly
With Lipeng, it was always his intention, or rather his father's intention, that he lead a normal life following his Shaolin experience.
Non-Chinese Shaolin Monks
Hey people, i'm new here. I've read a lot of threads here and well, this is just excellent. Talking about Shalolin monks all-around America i'd like to ask what's your opinion about these non-chinese monks:
Jorge Buzzi (Shi Yan Long) (Argentina):
Shi Yon Kan's disciple
http://www.temploshaolinenargentina....i_yan_long.jpg
This videos is about a ceremony at Mt. Song temple (his monk ceremony i supose)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up4lLyEAFjk
Walter Zuazo (Shi Heng Yi) (Venezuela)
Shi Guolin's disciple
http://www.guatire.com/portal/images...rzuazo2011.jpg
This was his ceremony at STOH in NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5NPW4QUpM
Carlos Álvarez (Shi Miao Zhang) (Spain)
Shi Xing Lin's disciple
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...79_99842_n.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsnLWmGlO6g
This last is not buddhist.
Weel, this is for for reading your opinions or something. I hope not being breaking any rule :)
Bye!
That is hilarious, pazman. If I can get some friends in on it, I'm poaching that.
Interesting thread topic, HmorenoM. In regards to this subject, technically speaking, to be considered as a fully-ordained Shaolin Monk, you must have the Abbot's blessing, as by definition, that officially signifies acceptance by the monastic brotherhood of Shaolin today. There are many of us Shaolin Disciples that have called themselves 'monks' (I have called myself the real 'fake' monk, but only in jest). I have asked the Abbot directly about how many laowai have been officially ordained, and he is always very diplomatic about the answer. I haven't asked him about it in a while as it's a waste of a question.
Note that there is a difference between 'Non-Chinese Shaolin Monks' and 'Non-Chinese Buddhist Monks'. There are plenty of the latter.
Here are two previous relevant threads:
Yanfan (Franco Testini)
(note also The First American Branded at Shaolin Temple By Melissa Leon-Guerrero in our Shaolin Special 2007)
Matthew Ahmet
None of these were full ordinations, but rather secular disciple ceremonies.
They are not monks (at least by these ceremonies).
The difficulty is that Shaolin is one of the few Chinese traditions that give secular disciples monastic names, whereas usually the Shi family name (short for the Chinese transliteration of Śākyamuni) is reserved for the fully ordained. Secular disciples often have a separate generational naming scheme, but in Shaolin it is the same as the fully ordained.
But looking at the ceremonies;
First of all, one monk alone cannot perform the ordination ceremony for another like this. It takes 10 fully ordained monks, i.e. "3 teachers and 7 witnesses" (三师七证).
The three teachers include the "preceptor" who confers the precepts, the "chairman" who recites description of the ceremony, and the "instructor" who teaches the ceremonial manner.
The seven witnesses attest to the ordination, that it was valid and conducted properly. At least seven monks are required, unless in distant locations where it is not possible, in which case at least two witnesses are required.
In the first video the initiate did not even learn to perform a proper prostration. If this were a full ordination ceremony with all required attendees, it was still not conducted properly and thus null and void.
To confirm anyone's ordination you may simply ask for names of their 3 teachers and 7 witnesses. They should have a copy of this on their official certificate of ordination. Otherwise, as secular disciples what they will have is a refuge certificate like the first guy was given that will just name their refuge master.
This is more about diaspora than racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Syn7
These are Buddhist monks we're talking about. If you believe your vows and actually follow them, race shouldn't be an issue. Apples and oranges, man.
The number of non-Chinese Buddhist monks is innumerable. The number of non-Chinese Shaolin monks is very low, if any, but this is just because Shaolin has only been open for laowai for a few decades. I've spoken to the Abbot about this, and like I said, he's very diplomatic publicly. He is totally open to non-Chinese Shaolin monks. In fact, he encourages it (at least when talking to me) but he stipulates that such person must meet the criteria just like any other Shaolin Monk candidate. In due time, the Abbot feels non-Chinese Shaolin monks are inevitable.
LFJ is spot on with his comment below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LFJ
The difficulty is that Shaolin is one of the few Chinese traditions that give secular disciples monastic names, whereas usually the Shi family name (short for the Chinese transliteration of Śākyamuni) is reserved for the fully ordained. Secular disciples often have a separate generational naming scheme, but in Shaolin it is the same as the fully ordained.
The issue of wuseng and biaoyanseng, which we've discussed here and in our Shaolin Specials ad nauseum, complicates what officially defines a Shaolin Monk. It's worthy of note that Shaolin is now holding large indoctrination ceremonies. See the article I posted above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GeneChing